Garibaldi Express: Hair and Fur Plugin [Commercial]

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Comments

  • JarelJarel Posts: 15
    edited December 1969

    Hi everyone,

    Is there a chance anyone has figured out a reliable way of using Garibaldi with the scripted renderer? A lot of the time, it does not generate the curves, but sometimes it does. And I can't seem to determine the logic of when it happens.

    I've never been able to get it working with scripted rendering - I did ask about it when the plugin first came out but don't think I got an explanation. My guess at the time was that the material was setup in the C++ sdk and something about that causes it to not work with scripting. Replacing the material doesn't fix it.

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,693
    edited December 1969

    Jarel said:
    My guess at the time was that the material was setup in the C++ sdk and something about that causes it to not work with scripting.

    You see, it's not the material. It's the curves themselves that don't get generated (rendering to RIB confirms this).
    But sometimes they do. It's almost random.

  • MrPatrickMrPatrick Posts: 33
    edited February 2015

    I have found this product quite powerful and had tremendous help from this forum.
    So, figure to post my latest attempts.
    These were rendered with Reality. Using two nodes, one as a lower buzzed base and the other as a long top piece. The top one is the first attempt of the two, using a Skin shader. With the second one, added more hair for the top layer and made the base layer cover the head (whereas before, just covered the sides), using a Metal (silver) shader... and a lot more combing down. Much like brushing the hair of a doll...

    The metal shader seems to be more dramatic than the skin... kind of tossed up with the two.

    The strayed hairs are of the texture, but looks like adding in a third node for strays/imperfections is quite possible.

    Thanks for all with the help/advice in this thread.

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    Post edited by MrPatrick on
  • KeryaKerya Posts: 9,644
    edited December 1969

    Looks good!
    Did you do the beard too?

  • MrPatrickMrPatrick Posts: 33
    edited February 2015

    Errr... forgot about mentioning that. Yes. Originally I was skeptical about it because of the requirement to export to OBJ and then import back, due to how Reality works. I had thought that the beard would be static. That is, when moving the mouth, the beard would not move along. But following of how to use the Transport Utility (Mec4D) for the OBJ import, made the beard work as intended.

    Post edited by MrPatrick on
  • KeryaKerya Posts: 9,644
    edited December 1969

    Do you remember where you found the instructions by Mec4D for the obj import?
    There are some beards which don't work very well ...

    Yours looks really good! Irregular stubbles which are not too thick. NICE!

  • MrPatrickMrPatrick Posts: 33
    edited February 2015

    Kerya said:
    Do you remember where you found the instructions by Mec4D for the obj import?
    There are some beards which don't work very well ...

    Yours looks really good! Irregular stubbles which are not too thick. NICE!

    Thanks.
    For the OBJ instructions, was this posting (the page has some other useful info as well).
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/17751/P180/#265422

    For the beard...
    Painting: What found useful is using the "Texture U" in the Symmetry to make it go quicker.
    Distribution: Set Amount to 25 with a Seed of 2 (which gives a bit of irregular look). Width settings for both Base and Tip of 0.005.
    Left Clump and Tweak settings as defaults.

    Oh now I remember... I did a bit of a mishap of having an open spot under the chin. So had to paint that in, and in so doing, had to scale that newly painted area. I didn't get it exactly to the same scale as the rest of the beard.

    * EDIT 1*
    Just in case, when importing, I used:
    From: DAZ Studio (1 unit = 1cm)
    Scale: 100%
    *EDIT 2*
    For Reality, used Skin Shader with three levels of black (Defuse: 016:015:021; Surface:025:025:025; Interior:000:000:000)

    Post edited by MrPatrick on
  • KeryaKerya Posts: 9,644
    edited December 1969

    Thank you for the link and your details!

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,988
    edited December 1969

    According to Help>About Installed plug-ins the DIM version is 1.1.0.5

    I have a couple of dorky questions.

    1. How can DIM be offering updates when in my Product Library there are no DIM buttons? ... it's a manual download only and it's not an update.

    2. Does Garibaldi Express work in D/S4.7?

  • oomuoomu Posts: 170
    edited December 1969

    According to Help>About Installed plug-ins the DIM version is 1.1.0.5

    I have a couple of dorky questions.

    1. How can DIM be offering updates when in my Product Library there are no DIM buttons? ... it's a manual download only and it's not an update.

    2. Does Garibaldi Express work in D/S4.7?

    -
    1: in my case, I have the green button "Download and Install" in my Product Library for Garibaldi Express. It works properly, launching DIM if I press it.

    2: yes, Garibaldi Express works with DAZ Studio 4.7.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,988
    edited February 2015

    lainsd said:
    According to Help>About Installed plug-ins the DIM version is 1.1.0.5

    I have a couple of dorky questions.

    1. How can DIM be offering updates when in my Product Library there are no DIM buttons? ... it's a manual download only and it's not an update.

    2. Does Garibaldi Express work in D/S4.7?

    -
    1: in my case, I have the green button "Download and Install" in my Product Library for Garibaldi Express. It works properly, launching DIM if I press it.

    2: yes, Garibaldi Express works with DAZ Studio 4.7.

    That's curious.[strike] Guess it's time for one of those CS tags.[/strike]
    Thanks.

    .... but first I ran the updated DIM and oh boy, HU .... some products are being shown now ONLY in DIM. The updates were there BUT not in my Product Library as anything for DIM to download. I checked the file though and it appears to be the same ol' .drivers of before. The only "new" file is something called "initialize.dzime".

    Post edited by patience55 on
  • GoneGone Posts: 807
    edited December 1969

    2. Does Garibaldi Express work in D/S4.7?

    A small caveat here --- while Garibaldi works just fine in 4.7, it now triggers a 3Delight warning that the shader must be declared.

    The plugin works without issue, but some may find this message a bit disconcerting if they are not expecting it.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,988
    edited December 1969

    Gone said:

    2. Does Garibaldi Express work in D/S4.7?

    A small caveat here --- while Garibaldi works just fine in 4.7, it now triggers a 3Delight warning that the shader must be declared.

    The plugin works without issue, but some may find this message a bit disconcerting if they are not expecting it.

    Okay ... so that would be then one more message to ignore in D/S, np. Thanks.

    Haven't installed D/S4.7 yet ... am seriously hoping that a new plugin not yet out will work in 4.6 but if it doesn't I may have to.

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,693
    edited December 1969

    For those who might be interested in marrying scripted rendering and Garibaldi...

    I dedicated some time to proper scientific experimentation, and I determined that in order for Garibaldi to work with scripted rendering, the Garibaldi node has to be loaded FIRST in the scene, AND Studio has to be already set to use scripted rendering. // do not try temporary switching to "standard" 3Delight because you won't be able to get the curves to render when you go back to scripted rendering! //

    It means that the workflow should be somewhat backwards when scripted-rendering a saved scene you load from disk.

    If it has a Garibaldi style in it, you save it out separately, delete the style from the scene and resave the scene (under a different name, if you wish). If you want to add a new Garibaldi style to a scene you have, you will have to create it separately beforehand and save to disk. Then you load the style before the rest of the scene ( = merge your scene into a new one with the Garibaldi style already in there).

    Even then, with scripted rendering, you will run into problems with the Garibaldi curves failing to update their position. I haven't done any fur scenes, but I managed to find a way to combat this when Garibaldi is used for hairstyles.
    I used Toulouse Hair, a boned figure, for the skull cap. Here is a step-by-step that gets positioning right:

    1. Load a figure for the cap, create the Garibaldi style.
    2. Save the Garibaldi style out as a wearable.
    3. Make sure scripted rendering is on.
    4. Start a NEW scene.
    5. Merge the Garibaldi wearable with the scene.
    6. Merge the cap figure with the scene; fit the Garibaldi wearable to the cap figure.
    7. Merge your saved scene with this one.
    8. Fit the cap figure to the character.
    9. Now, go to the "head" bone of the _cap_ figure and PARENT the Garibaldi wearable to the "head" bone.
    10. In the Parameters tab of the Garibaldi hair, set "Apply transformation" to "On".
    Note: sometimes, the guide curves in the viewport may jump out of place after that. That's OK; they should be there in the right place when you render!
    11. Render the scene!

    I guess that if you don't use a cap figure, you do the parent-Garibaldi-node thing with the character's head (but I haven't yet tried).

    Important: If you want to tweak your Garibaldi style, unfortunately you will need to save it out and do the procedure from the very beginning, because the curves will NOT update those options set from inside the Garibaldi editor (styling, clumping, salting/peppering - these all require a reload in order to work with scripted rendering). The shader, edited via the Surfaces tab, will update correctly, though.

    Also important: check the "Apply transformation" setting when you load your Garibaldi style into the empty scene, and turn it off before you fit it to the figure. Otherwise, the trick with enabling it after parenting will not work!

  • JarelJarel Posts: 15
    edited December 1969

    For those who might be interested in marrying scripted rendering and Garibaldi...

    Wow. Well done. Shall have a play around with it later, would be nice to have something working.

  • VyrdolakVyrdolak Posts: 7
    edited December 1969

    I'm fairly new to DAZ (I just started working with it this past summer) and I've just started using Garibaldi Express. (I'm attaching one of my first renders, a character for a book cover). I'm running into a problem with the shaders I select in GE not appearing in DAZ. When the hair renders in DAZ, I get this error message:

    3Delight message #41 (Severity 1): P2395: parameter 'shadeType' of shader 'garibaldiShader' must be declared

    Then the hair shows up in a sort of ash blond, basically the preview colors. Why the hair in the attached render suddenly started appearing in the right shader colors, I have no idea--a second dark-haired character I'm working on remains stubbornly blond.

    I ran a search and can't find anyone else mentioning this issue. Is there something I can do to fix this?

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  • GoneGone Posts: 807
    edited December 1969

    As I mentioned 4 posts back, this message is new to DS 4.7 and can be ignored as it has no effect on the render.

    Hair colour is determined in 2 places.
    1. the base/tip colour settings in the distribute pane of the editor.
    2. the "R" and "TRT" settings in the DS surfaces pane. The other settings can also have an effect but these are the main players as they directly determine the highlight and shine.

    Without more info, it's hard to say what the problem is but it sounds like either the base/tip colour hasn't been changed or the "TRT" value is too high.

    One other possibility is the gamma setting. If you are using gamma correction in your render settings, you need to turn on the gamma flag in the shader (at the bottom of the DS surfaces pane) or the hair will render too bright.

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,693
    edited December 1969

    Jarel said:
    For those who might be interested in marrying scripted rendering and Garibaldi...

    Wow. Well done. Shall have a play around with it later, would be nice to have something working.

    Thank you!

    I have now done some testing with the Garibaldi hair that is created on the character directly. It seems to require fewer steps: basically, once you do the load-the-wearable-style-first thing and fit it to your merged-into-this-new-scene character - but no parenting! - you can save the scene. Then the Garibaldi node will get stuck first in the processing order, and it will always render.

    You will generally need to reload this scene before render, though, once you change the character pose. But no extra tricks needed, just a save-reload.

  • VyrdolakVyrdolak Posts: 7
    edited December 1969

    Gone said:
    2. the "R" and "TRT" settings in the DS surfaces pane. The other settings can also have an effect but these are the main players as they directly determine the highlight and shine.

    That seems to be the issue, thanks! The root and tip colors were definitely set and gamma correction was not on. But the hair is now rendering dark instead of ash blond.

  • aidanstoneauthoraidanstoneauthor Posts: 50
    edited December 1969

    I am looking for a manual for the V1.5 version of GH. Several functions in the manual for the free version do not appear in V 1.5 If there is no new manual, is there an update to the original manual? I have seen all the videos at GH site, and Youtube. They detail the free version, but not the paid version. I have gone through some 80+ pages in this thread, to no avail. I can't erase a follicule once it is placed, and the split groups function does not work, although, I haven't tried the grouping suggestion from "Gone." I'm trying to make short, white fur on a Genesis 2 female, and the color won't change once it is exported so that I can see a render. When I do, the fur is too bright, and I've tried repeatedly to tone it down using the editor. Tried different lighting, adjustments of hair density, shaders, surfaces, and fiddled with the diffuse ect. I hope someone here has a clue because, I Definitely do NOT.

  • GoneGone Posts: 807
    edited December 1969

    Version1.5? The most recent version I am aware of is 1.1.0.5. If you have a different version, could you please post a screen shot of the style pane - that's where any changes to the tools are likely to be found and I would like to see what's different.

    What you have seen in videos, etc. is all that is available at the moment.

    Follicles are placed on the distribution map. To remove follicles requires that you paint out the section you don't want on the distribution map using the paint panel (or an external paint app). Change the brush colour to black and paint over the section you want to remove. This acts as an erasure. Note: occasionally, the brush gets "stuck" and won't paint. Usually, you can "unstick" the brush by switching to another pane and then back. If that doesn't work, hit the "accept" button to close GH and then reopen the editor. Any work you have done to that point will be saved so you won't lose anything.

    What split groups function are you referring to? I am not aware of any such function.

    Aside from the base/tip colour in the editor, the hair colour is controlled in the surfaces pane in DS. There are 2 things that affect the overall brightness.
    1. Gamma correction. If you have gamma turned on in the render engine, you need to make sure the gamma switch is on in the surface settings for the hair. You can find it near the bottom of the settings.
    2. The TRT colour. The default colour is white and the intensity is quite high so the hair is basically washed out. Lower the intensity value to around 0.2. You can change the colour in the colour bar to compliment the colours in the editor to assist. You can also choose a completely different colour and change the hair entirely by using the blend slider.

    Actual hair is generated at render time so you won't see anything in the work window in DS except the blue guide hairs (green when the hair is selected - which it has to be if you want to change the settings in the surface pane).

    Without screen shots to see what you have done, there is not much more I can help with at this point.

  • aidanstoneauthoraidanstoneauthor Posts: 50
    edited December 1969

    Gone, thank you for responding. You are correct, when I mentioned version 1.5 I was looking at the LAMH manual on my desk. The term, split groups, came from LAMH. I saw one of your previous posts and now understand the correct term would be nodes. I also copied the post to have a hard copy when I next attempt to create the figure I want, in GH. I have yet to check, but as a newbie, I’m sure your information about gamma correction is my user error. You referred to TRT color, and a blend slider. Would that be R color blend? I am working in 3-D delight; should I choose another workspace?

    I made the render attached with these settings.

    Render settings are
    Progressive rendering-off Bucket order-horizontal Bucket size-16 Max Ray trace depth-2 Pixel samples-4 Shadow samples-16 Gain-1.00 Gamma correction- off Gamma -1.0 Shading rate-1.00 Pixel filter- sinc Pixel filter width X-6.00 Pixel filter Y-6.00

    Surfaces tab settings are
    Shading rate-32 Opacity -1.00 S opacity-1.00 A intensity-0.00 D intensity-0.30 R intensity-0.60 R color - 225 225 225 R color blend-0.80 R longitudinal shift-10.00 R longitudinal width-10.00 TRT intensity-0.60 TRT color blend-0.70 TRT longitudinal shift -5.00 G intensity-0.50 G azimuth shift-0.00 G azimuth width-3.00 TT color - 225 225 225 TT color blend-0.50 O shading rate-128 O Max error-0.90 O Max distance-100 O number samples2 A correct gamma- off A specular hit mode- primitive A diffuse hit mode- primitive A transmission hit mode- primitive A camera hit mode- shader

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  • GoneGone Posts: 807
    edited December 1969

    Garibaldi uses the Marshner hair shader with the same terminology so that's why you get weird parameter names. Basically, "R" is your highlights and "TRT" is the overall shine on the hair.

    There are 3 components you want to play with in both these sections: the intensity slider, the colour bar, and the blend slider. There are no limits set on the sliders, but the practical values are between 0 and 1. Values outside that range will work but the results will be odd.

    With the blend slider, a value of 0 will use the colour set in the colour bar just above the slider and 1 will ignore the colour bar and use only the colours set in the editor. Obviously, any value in between will blend the colour bar and editor colours.

    You didn't show the distribution pane so I'm going to assume you set the base/tip colours to white and left the TRT colour bar as white. This is why your hair is so bright.

    In the editor, try setting the base colour to around mid grey (128,128,128) and the tip colour around 200, 200 200. Set the TRT colour around mid grey and start with the blend at 0.5. Lower the intensity of TRT to around 0.3.

    As with most things, your light setup will have a big influence on what happens - but these settings should provide a good start point to work from without having blinding white hair.

  • aidanstoneauthoraidanstoneauthor Posts: 50
    edited December 1969

    Gone
    Thank you for taking the time to help me. Using what you told me, I am now getting good results during test renders. I'm anxious to see what a high quality render will produce. Thanks again.

  • GoneGone Posts: 807
    edited December 1969

    No problem.

    Just out of curiosity, I decided to see what those settings would do. The results weren't bad when rendering with the default headlamp - but rendered dark grey when I added a couple of lights (1 AoA ambient, 1 AoA distant).

    Working with those lights, I changed up the settings as seen in the image. (base 192,192,192; tip 255,255,255). The surface settings were left at default.

    Note: I have gamma on so the gamma switch is on the the surface settings - everything else is default.

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  • aidanstoneauthoraidanstoneauthor Posts: 50
    edited December 1969

    Thanks, Gone.
    If I increased the distribution setting would it keep the skin from showing through as it does in your render?
    I'm trying to create fur for a character named Reah Leah the White. She has short (about 2.5 centimeter) hair on most of her body, and is described in the book as "completely white, unblemished in any way." The problem I'm having is that the longer hair makes her fur look to big for the rest of her body. It is really a matter of getting the hair strands to lay flat against her skin without piercing through the surface. If I use a tiny bit of curl the, attract to body, will pull them flat, but the curl keeps going through the surface. That results in the polygons of the base figure showing in a render. I get empty lines where they are. Yours looks so smooth; can I get rid of the polygons somehow? If I decreased the number of styling segments to 1, would it be easier to make the hair lay flat?
    Dazed and confused: Aidan

  • GoneGone Posts: 807
    edited December 1969

    Increasing the distribution amount will provide more coverage - but it comes at the cost of more generated hair.

    This may not seem like much but since the character is going to be completely covered in hair you could end up with millions of generated hairs. If you have a fairly robust system this isn't a problem - but if you have an older system (like mine) you want to keep the hair count as low as possible without compromising the image.

    Keep in mind, that as more hair gets packed in there is less space to show off individual hairs. You could potentially have so much hair that it looks like a solid mass.

    There are a couple of tricks that I've used in the past.
    - You can increase the base width. I've done this to provide a 5 o'clock shadow with stubble while keeping the hair count fairly low.
    - You can modify the character texture to match the colour of the hair. This will help keep the hair count down while not making it obvious where the skin shows through.

    I've attached a couple of squirrel pics I did about a year ago. The first one uses the squirrels texture to drive the hair colour. The second one has the squirrel texture changed to white so you can see how the underlying texture shows through.

    Laying hair close to the skin is a tricky balance. Too close and you can get bald spots. If the hair is too short, you get patterning where the hair doesn't smoothly overlap. In these situations, more hair can sometimes make the problem worse rather than better.

    Decreased to 1? The default is 1. Reducing the segment size will help to make the hair curve more smoothly. When I do eyebrows, I normally set the seg length to 0.2. Remember, there are 2 places to set seg length one in the tool bar and one in the interpolation section. The tool bar changes the length in the editor, the interpolation one determines the length in the render. Remember, shorter seg lengths mean more verts generated at render time.

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  • GoneGone Posts: 807
    edited December 1969

    So, here's a thing.

    I left the ears, hands, and feet bare to clearly show the underlying texture (Zevo's skin builder - pale). I also reduced the seg length to 0.2 to get smooth bends in the hair.

    End result - 1.1M hairs with just over 10M verts.

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  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    Nice one, Gone...

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    You guys do cool stuff!

    3Delight error messages in the #40's are nothing new apparently. I get one with UberSurface2, I've filed it with support and someone may want to do the same with Garibaldi. However, most of us have 1.1 and the store version is STILL 1.0, so that's something else to contend with. Daz did a lot of tinkering with 4.7 and unless it was bundled with DS it didn't get tinkered with. Should Garibaldi 1.1 ever make it to the store, a case for a support ticket could be raised. I'm trying to get someone to get Ubersurface2 recompiled before the full release of 4.8 comes out so it will be updated in line with it. It strikes me that 1.1 ought to be updated and out for that too.

    CHEERS!

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