How Do I Make a Morph that Correctly Effects an Already Morphed Figure?

lukon100

SITUATION:

1. I load a vendor figure.

2. I use morphs on the vendor figure. Call these “Morph Set A”.

3. I want more changes. So I export and change the figure in an external sculpter (Blender).

4. The difference between “Morph Set A” and this new shape I made in Blender I will call “Morph Set B”.

5. I import the new shape back into DS as a morph.

6. I apply the new morph to the figure.

7. The morph slider over-effects the figure, applying both “Morph Set A” and “Morph Set B”, meaning I get the effect of “Morph Set A” re-applied to the figure that already has “Morph Set A” applied to it.

QUESTION:

So. How do I get my custom morph to apply only “Morph Set B” to my figure that already has “Morph Set A” applied to it?

I watched a YouTube tutorial video a few days ago (before I discovered this problem) where someone mentioned a setting called “Deltas Only” having something to do with making morphs for previously morphed figures. I have since then lost that video.

kitakoredaz

No, deltas only only have meaning for morph which you already imported and show in parameter as same name. (it is for overwrite option)

but About your case, you need to paly with "reverse defomation" option . talk when you import morph B shape (which you modified in blender) for your Actor.

if reverse defomations option iis on,, DS make morph as delta, from current  shape in daz studio.(morphA applied and posed)  then to see same effect, you need to keep current morphA value and pose, then set morphB value to 100.

if ireverse defomations option set OFF DS make morph as delta from  zero base figure shape, (DS perfectly ignore, which morph you currently applied or posing etc,

then, to see imported shape, you need to set zero figure, then apply morphB value. 

kitakoredaz

clear step  when I make new  character morphB from vendor character set A .  of course I can not up-load and distribute morph which made from vendor.

1 export mesh of Character set A applied to blender. (with base resolution  and posing If I need so) .  Keep current scene in daz studio. not close it.

2 tweak  mesh and save (export) it as MorphB obj.  in blender, then return daz studio, keep current character as same as before, select mesh, then launch morph loader pro

3 select MorphB as morph, then set name or group etc,, then set reverse defomation "on".  it make delta morph from current shape pose actor in daz studio.

4  n I apply MorphB value to 100%,  actor in the scene change to shape which I saw in blender. Of course I need to keep  all " Vendor character set A" parameter values, to see same shape (and pose) + MorphB 100% 

Syrus_Dante

Reverse defomation with Morph Loader in DS is an option but it is complicated to handle I think.

An better workflow with blender would be to first load the base shape figure geometry - then import the combined FBM-FHM character morph shape from DS as a second geometry object.

Select the base shape figure and create a Shape-Key the first one is called Basis. Next select the character morph object then Shift-Select also the base shape figure object. If done in the right order you see the Basis Shape-Key. Right next to it under the plus and minus sign there is the Shape-Key specials menu - select "Join As Shapes" and you get a new Shape-Key with the character morph also named like the source object that you can delete now.

If you plan to sculpt a new morph shape now first create a new Shape-Key for that. Now you can sculpt with the character morph applied but before you export your new morph simply turn the character morph back to zero so you dont need to deal with Reverse Defomation in DS.

 

lukon100

I used the method described by kitakoredaz. It worked. But I first had to decypher the interface to find out exactly where the Reverse Deformation parameter is and how to change it. I had to watch a YouTube video of someone accessing the Reverse Deformation parameter to find this out.

Syrus83277_202e840f4e, other than having to decypher the interface like this, I fail to understand what about the Reverse Deformation method is complicated to handle. Will this method lead to some other problems down the road?

The Shape-Key's method, by comparison, seems way more complicated in terms of number of steps it requires. But perhaps the Sahpe-Key's method is simpler in terms of some other way of evaluating it that I'm not aware of.

kitakoredaz

 Reverse defomation "on" is simple..   I thnk like that,,

I load new base figure no morph, no pose,, all vertices positon located as start place. pick one vertex( NO 120),,  then , vertex Postion can be discribed as  (X0, Y0, Z0)

now you have applied shape with posing. all vertices  position change  in 3d wrold. if you follow the vertex (NO 120), it can be discribed ,  as new Postion1 (X1, Y1, Z1)

keep current pose and morph about the figure, then  export current posed mesh, (keep all vertices position as same as scene), and tweak it in another aprication.

 and save as new OBJ..now  NO 120 vertex move as new Positon 2 (X2, Y2, Z2)

 

when you import the OBJ as new morph C ... if you use reverse defomation = YES,, DS try to circulate delta transform,   from current scene positon = (X1, Y1, Z1)

the dela should be (X2-X1, Y2-Y1, Z2-Z1 )  then ds keep those delta as morph..  

but if  reverse deomation (NO), DS try to ciculate delta from zero posion  (X0, Y0, Z0). ignore current vertex position.

the delta should be (X2 -X0,  Y2-Y0,  Z2-Z0),,  then ds keep the delta as morph. about each vertex. 

kitakoredaz

Shape key is  a way to keep many morph targets of one mesh,  in blender. of course it is useful,, because you can merge  as you like.  or mix, with vertex selection, then produce new morph. and you can make morph keep  base shape (then you can return base shape when you need, without re-import mesh)

 but after all,, I think,, we may better to understand  reverse defomation option, to make morph for ds more felxible.

eg,, I pose figure, then apply smooth modifier,, then export it as obj.  (smoothed shape) . next  remove smooth modifier from current scene.

then import again, the obj as morph target,,,  with  reverse defomation option,  DS generate,, new smooth morph for current posed figure.

(smooth modifer should cause heave lag when posing, then I often convert it as morph for current posing, but set  smooth modifer off.

Syrus_Dante

OK "reverse defomation" and "blender shape keys" are just two different methods. Lets discuss the Pros and Cons.

Reverse defomation is at first an easy to use instant exchange but you can only work on one morph at a time and the exported OBJ file is more like a temporary exchange file that you can't reuse later once you change the current character shape it is based on. In the worst case DS crashes before you have saved the current character shape with your custom property settings - I mean not just one character shape out of your library but many custom property settings - you better first save the scene file or at least a shaping or a character preset to your DS library and don't use different shaping/posing settings on different key-frames in the timeline (like I tend to do often - to fix this select the figure - go to Parameters pane and use Memorize Figure then Clear Figure) otherwise it will make the reverse defomation dont work probably if you can't remember the source shape you have exported.

The advantage of the blender shape keys is that you can seperate your morph-shape from the character-shape directly in blender - also you can work on more than one morph-shape stored in different blender shape keys parallel to see if they all work together so you have more options to fix and smooth out unwanted deformations but this needs some extra steps to setup.

Both will lead to the same result in DS and yes reverse defomation is easy to use - just select the OBJ file with the morph-shape you just created in morphloader pro - right-click the "no" behind reverse defomation and set it to "yes".

 

@ kitakoredaz

Reverse Defomation

I understand that it is like a filter that filters out any morph-shapes that are allready applied to the base shape of the figure and only saves the difference of the current figures character-shape in the DS scene and the new morph-shape you load in with the morphloader pro.

Your description with looking at one vertex postion and the delta transformation is a good example. Please let me explain to all readers what to take care of while using reverse defomation.

So Position 0 (X0, Y0, Z0) is the figures Base-Shape.

Postion1 (X1, Y1, Z1) is the vertex position after you applied some morphs like a character shape and/or maybe a pose in DS (usefull to create JCM-JointControlledMorphs I think).

Positon 2 (X2, Y2, Z2) is the new vertex position of the morph shape you add on top of the character-shape with the external editor like blender.

If you now use morphloader pro and you load your newly created morph-shape with the vertex Positon 2 (X2, Y2, Z2) make shure you have the exact character shape with the vertex Postion1 (X1, Y1, Z1) of the figure in the DazStudio scene like you have exported it in first place, otherwise the reverse defomation can't filter out all the shape difference.

Its easy if you make an additional morph for lets say the 100% Victoria 7 for Genesis 3 shape. But if you have first dialed in some of this and some of that and created some custom character with allot of shaping morphs and propertys its a good advice to first save a shaping or a character preset to your DS library. So you don't run into trouble shaping your perfect morph for hours in blender and try to load it back into DS the next day with the reverse deformation and have to realise that you don't remember the source shape of the character you have exported.

 

Using Smoothing Modifier as morph-target

I know what you mean with the smoothing modifier as morph-target.

I also used this method I would call "shrink-wrap" - this is where you need to use reverse defomation at the end otherwise it don't work and this is where I start to make use of reverse defomation more often lately.

So you can use the smoothing modifier as a shrink-wrap on clothes and hair with "Collision Item" set to the figure its fitted to - it does automaticly set the Collision Item to the figure it is fitted to. (you can tweak the Collision Iterations and Smoothing Iterations settings to higher values in the parameters pane to get a better fitting)

Then I also add some D-Formers here and there scale down and tranform or even rotate the D-Former a bit and also scale and tranform the D-Former-Field you can also use different setting for the x-y-z-Scale (for shrink all down first scale up the D-Former-Field until all vertex dots are red showing the infuence is at maximum value on all then scale down the D-Former itself - the scaling center is the position of the D-Former Base)

You can tweak the D-Formers until the cloth or hair somehow "shrink-wraps" around the figure shape and because of the collision settings it dosn't intersect with the figure - if it does start poke through set the Collision and Smoothing Iterations even higher or tweak the D-Former settings - depending on your CPU power it can take a while to update with realy high settings but don't worry we are creating a morph shape.

After that you can hide everything in the scene but the cloth or hair you are working on - as you hide the figure you can see the smoothing modifier and the collision will still calculate. Next export this clothes or hair shape as an OBJ file and make shure "Ignore Invisible Nodes" is on in the export dialouge. Now disable the smoothing modifier and disable or delete the DFormers. Than load the OBJ file back as a morph with morphloader pro and use "reverse defomation: yes".

For my taste most of the new Genesis 3 hair has to much volume to it and I start scaling it down a bit but by shaping the hair with D-Formers the scullcap sometimes disapears bacause it gets pushed into the head but I don't want to set the Collision and Smoothing Iterations to high. So first I ignore this and continue to create the smoothed shrink-wrap morph until I have it in the parameters pane. Then to fix that scullcap problem I use the Geomerty Editor to select the scullcap surface and then I use Morph Editing>Remove Selected Deltas from Favourites - see this Morph editing thread for more info about that.

There you have it a hopefully perfect fitting shrink-wrap morph and remember you have to save this new morph-property as a Morph-Asset so it loads up with the cloth or hair figure if added to a new scene from the library.