Hidden Treasures- Fun with Older Sets

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  • LinwellyLinwelly Posts: 5,207
    edited June 2017
    Llynara said:
     

    @Linwelly - the fire effect is incredible in your Cheyenne image! Wow, I need to learn how to do that. Love the DOF on it too.

    I totally forgot that there was something I wanted to answer to... so here is how I did the fire: the is the normal camp fire that comes with the cheyenne camp turned into Iray. But additionally I made the lames planes into emissive shader (double sided on) and make sure you press control and then choose ignore when applying the emissive. As far as I remember I had to put the flames map into the emissive shader colour. And In this case I had to take the opacity map of the flames into Gimp and correct the borders a bit as the outline of the plane did show up with the unaltered opcity map.  I tend to change the Luminance units into kcd/m^2 so i don't have these overdimensional numbers to get  a useful luminance. As well its helful for everything fire related to use a emissive temperature of  about 2900 up to 3300 K as that is the referring to a warm toned light.

    I hope that helps, otherwise keep asking. If you don't want to enter this thread with technical questions you can always come to my thread and fill that with questions ;)

    Post edited by Linwelly on
  • LlynaraLlynara Posts: 4,764
    edited June 2017

    Oh wow, you all have been busy while I've been battling my garden. Yes, there are some great DM deals today. I think my collection will be about complete, LOL. I just picked up the Tangien set. Thanks for showing that, L'Adair. 

    @Linwelly - Thanks for the tips on the fire. Tips are welcome here. Sometimes they're important to know how a set or effect was pulled off. The more, the merrier! 

    One more question: Are you using the Reflective Radiance in the skull and candle render? It looks incredible for 3Delight! I have that product, but hardly have the patience anymore to wait for 3Delight to do its thing so I can see things will look like. I'm spoiled by the instant previews in Iray. 

    Post edited by Llynara on
  • LlynaraLlynara Posts: 4,764

    @greybro This looks fantastic! Which set is it? I'll put it in the index.  

    Greybro said:

    One of my favorite activities is to upconvert some old set to IRay and make a modern looking Iray render. I think I paid under a buck for this outfit and environment altogether.

    The Catwalk

     

     

  • LinwellyLinwelly Posts: 5,207
    Llynara said:

    Oh wow, you all have been busy while I've been battling my garden. Yes, there are some great DM deals today. I think my collection will be about complete, LOL. I just picked up the Tangien set. Thanks for showing that, L'Adair. 

    @Linwelly - Thanks for the tips on the fire. Tips are welcome here. Sometimes they're important to know how a set or effect was pulled off. The more, the merrier! 

    One more question: Are you using the Reflective Radiance in the skull and candle render? It looks incredible for 3Delight! I have that product, but hardly have the patience anymore to wait for 3Delight to do its thing so I can see things will look like. I'm spoiled by the instant previews in Iray. 

    Yes, that is the reflective radiance with the daylight setting but the sun light strenght dialed down to 30% so that the candle light still have an effect. Juts for the notice, I rarely have the impression that the 3delight render take that much longer than the Iray and I have the 1080 GC. What bothers me with Iray often is that the surface are flat where thy should have struckture because they don't use the displacement to the full capacity and not everything comes with a normal map.  So when you have a cobblesone floor and look from the side, its looks just flat as the bump doesn't catch the light.

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,470
    L'Adair said:

    If you "recently" purchased one of the DM sets when the discounts were really deep, you may notice that banner which must not be named across the top of the page... I've got 5 DM sets in my cart right now, at 89% off, (being a PC+ member and they all being DOs...) Cart total is $10.68. (I already picked up almost $5 of PC+ stuff at 30¢ each.) Don't see the banner which must not be named? Check "Exclusive Offers" in your Messages Inbox...

    I got a different banner which must not be named haha, pertaining to V4/M4 (I bought SO many items for those figures, that it might've triggered the banner). Also, nice renders! I've got two of those three products in my runtime but I haven't had a chance to render them. Too bad about that floor. It does look busy. Almost like the tiling got weird...

    Same offer. Most of the older DM products have poses for V4/M4. I'm just not adept at using generation 4 figures and clothing with the newer generations, so I usually stick with sets and such.

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,513

    I rendered "The Study" yesterday (since I picked it up during the last sale) and I'm happy with the N.G.S. conversion.

    So, here's the render with only an uberbase thrown in, except for the fire (which I converted to emission). The entire thing is pretty much lighted by the fire and an HDRI map from the iRadiance collection.

    The tweaked version:

    • surfaces converted to Iray via Uberbase and then I applied N.G.S.'s freebie script. Applied it even to the dog :D
    • Except for the "clockface" of the clock prop. When I used the N.G.S. script on it, it went white, so I simply left that one alone.
    • For the metals parts I used Mec4d PBS Shaders vol.1.
    • For the windows Iray Glass Shaders

    PS: Ignore the fact that the chair is going through that dog... D:

    Wow the Anagennesis shader did wonders for this!

  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 2,204
    edited June 2017

    Wow the Anagennesis shader did wonders for this!

    Indeed! I was blown away! I've never used the script on an environment until I tried it with the F3D_Ruins Elven Portal by freedome3design set. Though it did wonders with that one as well, it wasn't as apparent as with the study set.

    Here's another old set: The Greek Bath.

    The first render is the set with uberbase thrown in. I used a single ghost-light (overcast) on the side and one of the HDRIs from Skies of iRadiance.

    For the second render:

    • The surfaces that were already converted to Iray via Uberbase got the N.G.S.'s freebie script applied. The lights are the same, so I guess that NGS made it so that the surfaces absorbed the light rather than reflect it (maybe)?
    • I used a shader from Elaborate Metals on the vase & moved it to the other side in order to see the water better.
    • I replaced the water plane for one of SY Pool Waters Iray. Then I added a primitive with emission, set it just on the surface and used a "nebula" picture on the emission, base color and opacity to get that effect.

    TheGreekBath-OutBox.png
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    TheGreekBath-NGS-SYWat3.png
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    Post edited by FenixPhoenix on
  • GreybroGreybro Posts: 2,148
    Llynara said:

    @greybro This looks fantastic! Which set is it? I'll put it in the index.  

    Greybro said:

    One of my favorite activities is to upconvert some old set to IRay and make a modern looking Iray render. I think I paid under a buck for this outfit and environment altogether.

    Paris for V4 and the Fashion Catwalk. Got them for 0.46 and 0.30 on sale! Now TTHAT is what I call a discount!

    The Catwalk

     

     

     

  • Bunyip02Bunyip02 Posts: 5,403
    edited June 2017

    Carrara render - DM Brenin Patio

     

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  • Bunyip02Bunyip02 Posts: 5,403
    edited June 2017

    Carrara render DM Kays Lair

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    Post edited by Bunyip02 on
  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 2,204
    Bunyip02 said:

    Carrara render - DM Brenin Patio

    Really like that one, so glad it's on sale now! I'll probably get it for the floor alone! Hopefully, it'll conver to Iray okay.

  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 2,204
    edited June 2017

    Okay, so I tried my hand at Classical Pool, sadly I wasn't so successful with its original textures. However the Villa Venus: Pool materials converted much better. 

    First Render:

    • Classical Pool out of the box (with iray Uberbase thrown in). Don't really like how busy it looks. It also looks like it's in dire need of cleaning.
    • It's lit by a neutral iRadiance HDRI & a orange tinted ghostlight on the right side.
    • The background shows the "day at the beach" backdrop.

    Second Render:

    • Classical Pool with the N.G.S.'s freebie script applied. Still not a fan of the textures.
    • Same lights are above. So, once again, NGS darkens the textures making them absorb the light rather than bounce it.
    • I kept the original water plane, but shaded it with SY Pool Waters Iray.

    Third Render:

    • Didn't let it finish, but you can see the textures didn't align properly.
    • Sometimes NGS moves the tiling (not sure if it was the case here, since I moved on before thinking to check), so make sure to revise that after converting.

    Fourth Render:

    • This shows the Villa Venus: Pool materials out of the box (with iray Uberbase thrown in). Light seems to bounce off the surface with this texture, washing out almost all color. 
    • Same light as above (except the ghostlight is now neutral instead of orange), but I moved the camera by mistake, so this one is closer.
    • Water looks more like glass...

    Fifth Render:

    Sixth Render:

    • Villa Venus: Pool materials with the N.G.S.'s freebie script applied.
    • Turned down the ghostlight intenisty (kept it neutral).
    • Switched to a different HDRI of a bright sky.
    • Kept the water plane for one of SY Pool Waters Iray. But added a primitive with emission, set it just on the surface and used a "nebula" picture on the emission, base color and opacity to get that effect.

    Seventh Render (my preferred version):

    • Villa Venus: Pool materials with the Marble Shaders for Iray settings applied. I used the settings of the white imperial shader, but  left the textures intact.
    • Same light as above, so now everything got lighter and even closer to how the original textures are supposed to look like.
    • Kept the water the same as above, but lowered the opacity of the emissionto 0.80. I also moved the plane a bit lower, so it would still show the water's geometry.

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    ClassicalPool-VenusNewWater-MarbleShader.png
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    Post edited by FenixPhoenix on
  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,489

    Belatedly, subd is subdivision.

    It takes the mesh and, well, divides it. Each step doubles each dimension of the mesh, so you end up with 4x as many polygons each level.

    The problem is that if the mesh is too simple or elements aren't welded together, subdivision can change the geometry and make the object pull apart into garbage. Sometimes changing the subdivision smoothing thing can help... but not often.

     

  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 2,204
    edited June 2017

    Belatedly, subd is subdivision.

    It takes the mesh and, well, divides it. Each step doubles each dimension of the mesh, so you end up with 4x as many polygons each level.

    The problem is that if the mesh is too simple or elements aren't welded together, subdivision can change the geometry and make the object pull apart into garbage. Sometimes changing the subdivision smoothing thing can help... but not often.

    Oh, okay, now I understand. Thanks for the explanation! Which means that for every Subd level you raise, it'll add to the render time, wouldn't it? I've never messed with Subd on environments. I had started to do it with clothes, mainly because WearThemAll suggests it (though I wasn't sure exactly what it accomplished).

    Post edited by FenixPhoenix on
  • LinwellyLinwelly Posts: 5,207

    Belatedly, subd is subdivision.

    It takes the mesh and, well, divides it. Each step doubles each dimension of the mesh, so you end up with 4x as many polygons each level.

    The problem is that if the mesh is too simple or elements aren't welded together, subdivision can change the geometry and make the object pull apart into garbage. Sometimes changing the subdivision smoothing thing can help... but not often.

    Oh, okay, now I understand. Thanks for the explanation! Which means that for every Subd level you raise, it'll add to the render time, wouldn't it? I've never messed with Subd on environments. I had started to do it with clothes, mainly because WearThemAll suggests it (though I wasn't sure exactly what it accomplished).

    a high subdivision is more a choker for Iray on Nvidia than for delight, for 3DL it will increase render time but as the sufaces are calculated ahead once that is done it will just render on. For Iray the high poly number could fill up all those little cudas so thet the GC in the end decided it can't take all of it so it rather switches to let the CPU do the work. Make sure you close all previous test renders in that case and switch optimisation to  memory instead of speed ( as you speed will be totally gone once its on CPU). For large render with high polys it makes sense to save the scene then close DS once, restart and then hit the render button as that make the GC a blanc slate with no residual processes lingering.

  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 2,204
    Linwelly said:

    a high subdivision is more a choker for Iray on Nvidia than for delight, for 3DL it will increase render time but as the sufaces are calculated ahead once that is done it will just render on. For Iray the high poly number could fill up all those little cudas so thet the GC in the end decided it can't take all of it so it rather switches to let the CPU do the work. Make sure you close all previous test renders in that case and switch optimisation to  memory instead of speed ( as you speed will be totally gone once its on CPU). For large render with high polys it makes sense to save the scene then close DS once, restart and then hit the render button as that make the GC a blanc slate with no residual processes lingering.

    So that's when Scene Optimizer might come in handy, right? I got this product, but keep forgetting to use it...

  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 2,204
    edited June 2017

    Alright, so I rendered Silence to see what it would look like with Iray. Overall, it's a great product for an incredible price!

    1st Render

    • Silence out of the box with uberbase thrown in.
    • It's lighted by the light set included in the product, as well as by a ghostlight (orange tinted) set behind the windows on the far back.

    2nd Render

    • Applied N.G.S.'s freebie script on everything EXCEPT the windows.
    • I used Colored and Broken Glass Iray Shaders on the glass panes, but kept the original textures & opacity mask. Especifically, I used the brown, veined/cracked-looking shader.
    • The light is the same, except I lowered the ghostlight intensity, since the windows now allowed more light in.
    • Needless to say, it took longer to render.

    3rd Render

    • Same as above, except I re-applied the original bump & displacement maps on all surfaces.
    • I also included a normal map (made in photoshop) for the walls on the side (not the back one), to see if I could make the bricks less flat.
    • Render time increased slightly from earlier version.

    Comparison between the second and third render:

     

    Silence_OOB.png
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    Silence_NGS.png
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    Post edited by FenixPhoenix on
  • LlynaraLlynara Posts: 4,764

    @Giselle3000 Loving your experimentations with the sets and the shaders. Great work, and fascinating too. 

    Question on the freebie NGS Anagenessis script- are you applying the general shader to all surfaces? I've used this script on Generation 3 characters but never on objects. I know there are a bunch of things you can apply to surfaces, just wondering which one is the best to apply to objects. I'm assuming it's the generic shader. 

  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 2,204
    edited June 2017
    Llynara said:

    @Giselle3000 Loving your experimentations with the sets and the shaders. Great work, and fascinating too. 

    Question on the freebie NGS Anagenessis script- are you applying the general shader to all surfaces? I've used this script on Generation 3 characters but never on objects. I know there are a bunch of things you can apply to surfaces, just wondering which one is the best to apply to objects. I'm assuming it's the generic shader. 

    Not a problem, I had to do some trial and error before I got it right myself. So basically, it goes like this:

    1. Convert the surfaces/textures to Iray via Uberbase.
    2. Updated (just experimented some more): Select ALL surfaces were you wish to apply the NGS script.

    3. Now if you followed the instructions on where to save the Freebie script, you'll need to go to Content Library/Shader Presets/NGS/Manual Apply. With the surfaces selected, you'll need to apply NGS Shader_New (which is under Manual Apply/Shaders). If you try to render only after doing this, you'll notice the textures will come out as white. (Refer to left image below)

    4. Right after you'll need to apply the NGS2 Freebie Script (which will return the maps to it's proper place). If the textures still come out white or if you get a message saying there's an issue, chances are you forgot to apply the uberbase to a surface (this happened to me quite a bit). Applying the uberbase before using NGS should fix the issue. (Refer to right image below)

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    Post edited by FenixPhoenix on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 36,942

    ...correct bump and displacement is the one issue I have using older sets in Iray.  When I did a side by side render of the same scene, textures like bricks, stone, rough wood, etc looked perfect in 3DL but in Iray, even with the bump value increased, they still looked like a flat surface with the details painted on it.

  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 2,204
    kyoto kid said:

    ...correct bump and displacement is the one issue I have using older sets in Iray.  When I did a side by side render of the same scene, textures like bricks, stone, rough wood, etc looked perfect in 3DL but in Iray, even with the bump value increased, they still looked like a flat surface with the details painted on it.

    Unfortunately, yeah. That's the main problem I saw with Villa Venus: Pool materials when I converted it. Things that should look "embossed," look painted in Iray. Not sure how to go about fixing it, though.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 36,942
    ...as I understand there is no "formula" fix. You basically have to keep playing around with the bump and displacement settings until it looks right. If there are associated maps you that don't show up you may have to load them in the appropriate channel. Basically a real pain in the bum.
  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,470
    kyoto kid said:

    ...correct bump and displacement is the one issue I have using older sets in Iray.  When I did a side by side render of the same scene, textures like bricks, stone, rough wood, etc looked perfect in 3DL but in Iray, even with the bump value increased, they still looked like a flat surface with the details painted on it.

    Unfortunately, yeah. That's the main problem I saw with Villa Venus: Pool materials when I converted it. Things that should look "embossed," look painted in Iray. Not sure how to go about fixing it, though.

    Increase the value in the Bump parameter, to anywhere from 2.0 to 5.0. (I usually start with 2.) Create a normal map and put it in the Normal Map parameter, value 1.0. (You can create the normal map from either the diffuse, bump or displacement map. For those of you with Photoshop, Nvidia provides a free plugin. Alternatively, you can go to http://cpetry.github.io/NormalMap-Online/ and use the online tool to create a normal map. There is a size limitation, though. It will make the map, but the "excess" pixels will get cropped off.)

    I recommend removing the image from the displacement parameter. As mentioned elsewhere, you have to set SubD to some value, which increases your render time, and isn't going to do much good if the wall consists of only a few polygons.

  • luci45luci45 Posts: 2,420
    edited June 2017

    Here are a couple of old rusty ones:  Lost Avenue Terminal  and Under the Bridge Both are converted to Iray materials with a few tweaks. 

    I agree it's a pain in the bum to mess with not-so-great bump maps and some of the old ones aren't so good. Many of the old set from before 2005 don't have bump maps. (Maybe sombody has mentioned that. I miss things.)

    Anyway, Lost Avenue Terminal has displacement maps and no bump maps so I increased subD to 3 and it was a long render. Under the Bridge has normal maps in the files but I had to plug them in. The rust was pretty thick so I dialed it down to .5

     

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    Post edited by luci45 on
  • luci45luci45 Posts: 2,420
    edited June 2017

    This is Miami Bistro converted to Iray. I ingreased the shine on the floor.  Moyra did the textures so they have really good bump maps. Maybe a little to strong on the heater and the tables. 

    miami bistro.jpg
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    Post edited by luci45 on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 36,942
    edited June 2017
    L'Adair said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...correct bump and displacement is the one issue I have using older sets in Iray.  When I did a side by side render of the same scene, textures like bricks, stone, rough wood, etc looked perfect in 3DL but in Iray, even with the bump value increased, they still looked like a flat surface with the details painted on it.

    Unfortunately, yeah. That's the main problem I saw with Villa Venus: Pool materials when I converted it. Things that should look "embossed," look painted in Iray. Not sure how to go about fixing it, though.

    Increase the value in the Bump parameter, to anywhere from 2.0 to 5.0. (I usually start with 2.) Create a normal map and put it in the Normal Map parameter, value 1.0. (You can create the normal map from either the diffuse, bump or displacement map. For those of you with Photoshop, Nvidia provides a free plugin. Alternatively, you can go to http://cpetry.github.io/NormalMap-Online/ and use the online tool to create a normal map. There is a size limitation, though. It will make the map, but the "excess" pixels will get cropped off.)

    I recommend removing the image from the displacement parameter. As mentioned elsewhere, you have to set SubD to some value, which increases your render time, and isn't going to do much good if the wall consists of only a few polygons.

    ....unfortunately I do not have PS and my workstation has no net access, so I cannot use any online tools. (or for that fact the subscription version of PS).. The only system I have with net access is an old 32 bit one which the latest version of PS will not run on.

    As I render in CPU mode increasing the mesh's Sub_D is not an option.   I already deal with fairly glacial render times the way it is. Some older sets (particularly those that use Ngons or tris) also don't like having Sub_D applied. 

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 2,204
    edited June 2017

    @luci35, those are excellent renders! I've always been interested to see how Under the Bridge would look, so I'm glad you posted it. That's another product that I've been on the fence about, even when it's been extra cheap. Even the wood looks pretty good, since it's supposed to look old and dry. Miami Bistro also looks fantastic!

     

    L'Adair said:

    Increase the value in the Bump parameter, to anywhere from 2.0 to 5.0. (I usually start with 2.) Create a normal map and put it in the Normal Map parameter, value 1.0. (You can create the normal map from either the diffuse, bump or displacement map. For those of you with Photoshop, Nvidia provides a free plugin. Alternatively, you can go to http://cpetry.github.io/NormalMap-Online/ and use the online tool to create a normal map. There is a size limitation, though. It will make the map, but the "excess" pixels will get cropped off.)

    I recommend removing the image from the displacement parameter. As mentioned elsewhere, you have to set SubD to some value, which increases your render time, and isn't going to do much good if the wall consists of only a few polygons.

    I've got Photoshop CC, so creating a bump/normal map is an already integrated filter. I'm wondering if there's a difference between that one and the Nvidia one. I'll search for the Nvidia and experiment some more. I was never sure what the displacement map did, so I only included it whenever the product itself included it. Might take it out of the "Silence set," since that one takes longer to render once I applied NGS.

    Post edited by FenixPhoenix on
  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 2,204
    edited June 2017

    Okay, so with the Classical Pool:  Villa Venus: Pool materials, I'd forgotten to replace the original bump map once I'd applied NGS + the marble shader. So I went back and did that. I also created normal maps (off of the bump maps) in Photoshop. Here's the result. 

    • Render without Bump + Normal maps:

    • Render WITH Bump + Normal maps:
    • The floor looks much better. And some of the details now look like they're not painted, but carved.

    • Comparison:

     

    ClassicalPool-VenusMarbleShader-NormalBump2.png
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    ClassicalPool-VenusMarbleShaderComparison.jpg
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  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,489

    If you have displacement maps but not bump, my advice is to use the displacement maps in the bump channel (unless you have the unlikely 'old but high density mesh')

    One thing I love about Substance Painter is that I can take bump and displacement maps and create Normal maps that are actually specific to the object (and use blur or other tweaks to make up for low resolution maps).

    Of course, on some items this would be a lot of work, and it's unfortunate that I can't distribute the maps.

    Although I might take a wack at the temple; if I can generate maps that are in no way based on the original maps, that should be legit.

  • Charlie JudgeCharlie Judge Posts: 9,930

    Applied N.G.S.'s freebie script on everything EXCEPT the windows.

    What NGS Freebie script?

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