Normal Maps With All Models Please

Szark

I have done literally hundreds of normal maps for Iray and not one acted that same as Val's issue. It maybe down to how it was made and in what software. If is was a bump map conversion then the GIMP plug-in allows Sobel based Normal maps which I believe is the correct format for Iray and yes I always have to invert the Y axis.

Totte

Szark said:

I have done literally hundreds of normal maps for Iray and not one acted that same as Val's issue. It maybe down to how it was made and in what software. If is was a bump map conversion then the GIMP plug-in allows Sobel based Normal maps which I believe is the correct format for Iray and yes I always have to invert the Y axis.

In that case the filter generated DirectX maps as default.

 

Tobor

Maybe this was brought up, but normals for characters in realtime games usually require some fairly hefty processing. Normals for more coarse geometries don't add much overhead, but those are generally specific to the application of the game, that is, they can vary widely. I believe you're really best off creating your own, to match the look you're after, and of course the game engine you're targeting. I don't think there can be a universal map that works with everything, for all applications, resolutions, and platforms.

 

SpottedKitty

th3Digit said:

I loaded the iray uber shader into shadermixer

saw the mass of bricks and cords

let out a small scream

and closed it 

Heh, so did I — but don't forget that's the complete Iray shader with all the bits and pieces visible all at once. What we see in the Surfaces tab is a cut-down subset of the complete shader. Many parts are not visible in the Surfaces tab unless some other parameter has an active value.

• The Base Mixing can be set to Metallicity/Roughness or Specular/Glossiness or Weighted. Each of these allows different parameters to show, for different types of materials.
• Bump, Normal and Displacement don't need any values unless there's an actual map applied, if there isn't, then the value parameters are hidden
• Metal Flakes and Top Coat are complete extra layers of the Iray material, if you set these to values above zero, it opens many other parameters.
• Emission Color controls how the surface emits light; if this is set to anything lighter than pure black, it opens up many other parameters that define what kind of light the surface gives off.

And that's just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. It's best to stay with the Surfaces tab until you're comfortable and familiar with how it works. I've dabbled with the Shader Mixer in 3Delight, but it's still a dark and scary place to me.

Daywalker Designs

SpottedKitty said:

th3Digit said:

I loaded the iray uber shader into shadermixer

saw the mass of bricks and cords

let out a small scream

and closed it 

Heh, so did I — but don't forget that's the complete Iray shader with all the bits and pieces visible all at once. What we see in the Surfaces tab is a cut-down subset of the complete shader. Many parts are not visible in the Surfaces tab unless some other parameter has an active value.

• The Base Mixing can be set to Metallicity/Roughness or Specular/Glossiness or Weighted. Each of these allows different parameters to show, for different types of materials.
• Bump, Normal and Displacement don't need any values unless there's an actual map applied, if there isn't, then the value parameters are hidden
• Metal Flakes and Top Coat are complete extra layers of the Iray material, if you set these to values above zero, it opens many other parameters.
• Emission Color controls how the surface emits light; if this is set to anything lighter than pure black, it opens up many other parameters that define what kind of light the surface gives off.

And that's just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. It's best to stay with the Surfaces tab until you're comfortable and familiar with how it works. I've dabbled with the Shader Mixer in 3Delight, but it's still a dark and scary place to me.

I've heard the tangled mess you see in shadermixer referred to as "spagetti soup", or something along those lines. And we also need to understand that the Iray Uber shader isn't representitive of what MDL shaders (nVidia's own shaders) are like.

Jimbow

I just wish there was a way to delete shader bricks in the Surface editor (right-click on the Metallic Flakes and choose 'Delete Bricks' for example). It'd make the Uber Shader much more efficient without so many users having to cry with horror at the tangled mess in the Shader Mixer and its 1980s navigation ;)

mike_f587c5eb66

I know this is an older discussion, but I can't get ANY developer's files to export normal OR bump maps, using FBX or OBJ.

 

Do they usually load in with the default load in Daz, or is there some special thing I need to do first?

Totte

mike_f587c5eb66 said:

I know this is an older discussion, but I can't get ANY developer's files to export normal OR bump maps, using FBX or OBJ.

 

Do they usually load in with the default load in Daz, or is there some special thing I need to do first?

.obj doesn't have Normal maps in the standard, only bump. fbx I don't know, but there are numerous different fbx standards...

WendyLuvsCatz

most third party apps you end up manually readding the maps not matter what export import method.

iClone 3Dxchange for example I find loads the normal maps often instead of the bump using FBX but as bump maps for example, Carrara misses most of them other than diffuse if a duf import if iray but 3Delight converted to DZdefault gets most but often in unexpected ways, just two examples I have from my own workflow.

Diomede

cridgit said:

mlyons_vignette_77722b8fff said:

Artists, please provide real normal maps with all models please, grey scaled bump maps are not good enough for export of daz models for games developers.

I provided a table some years ago showcasing various products/PA's that were not meeting DAZ's own quality standards (although these were obviously not being picked up by QA). My favourites: e.g. desaturated diffuse maps being sold as bump maps or displacement maps...

...

For reference, good quality/value products offer 4000x4000 maps with a file size > 6MB (some even go up to 10 or 13 MB). I have products purchased here at DAZ with a 4000 map only 600K - that is an embarassingly small texture scaled up to 4000 and it looks like...

 

Thanks for this interesting thread.  Where can I find a list of Daz's own quality standards?  

 

AlienRenders

timmins.william said:

Maps don't have to be that large if they are jpgs; a lot of vendors use jpgs, which is superior to keep the texture load from tripping GPU -> CPU.

 

Not sure why this keeps coming up, but it's simply not true. The GPU does NOT use the file format. It is decompressed and then recompressed using DXT5 or some other default compression for video cards. PNG is FAR superior to JPG every day of the week and will not affect triggering GPU->CPU. The size of the texture and the compression used in the engine is what will affect memory usage, not the file format or the compression used in said file format.

 

Oso3D

Yes, like my post from the next day or two notes. ;)

 

mmkdaz

Photoshop now (for a while actually) creates normal maps directly from diffuse maps. I believe the settings is under filters/3d/normals map.