New Radeon Pro Duo coming down the pike... 32 GB GDDR5 for $999 MSRP!
tj_1ca9500b
Posts: 2,047
Wow, 32 GB of GDDR 5 for $999, with Dual GPUs? Sure, they are Polaris 10, but that's a lot of GDDR5 for just 1 card...
AMD mentions 11.45 TFLOPS, 2 x 2304 stream processors and <250W in their press release.
http://www.amd.com/en-us/products/graphics/workstation/radeon-pro/duo#
The WCCF article below mentions splitting tasks/applications between each GPU, for example having one GPU working on a Composite in Nuke while you use the other GPU to work on some other project, and some other scenarios.
https://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-pro-duo-dual-polaris-10-graphics-card/
Not a good option for Iray, but for 3Delight...
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Daz studio 3Delight doesn't use the GPU, so sadly no use for that either.
If somebody ever ports the AMD ProRender to work as a plugin for DAZ Studio it'd blow nVidia cards out of the water for large scenes, well better at least. 16GB is sometimes not enough.
Won't need it, as Reality/LuxRender should be able to handle it as long as the OpenCL drivers work fine with it. Of course, who know how much of that VRAM will actually be available on Windows 10...
Someone can probably continue the work on gpuOcelot; it was abandoned relatively recently and needs to be updated with the most recent CUDA version.
There is a Rove3D for Unity, currently in beta and free for commercial use, that uses OpenCL and run on AMD and Nvidia graphic cards.
https://forum.unity3d.com/threads/released-rove3d-interactive-pathtraced-global-illumination.447861/
A Google search tells me that Maya, Autodesk, and Blender all have some support for AMD's ProRender engine. I also read somewhere where 3Delight may be playing around with this again (using GPU cores for rendering). And yes, AMD/ATI have been on the Open CL bandwagon for a long time now..
Reality/Luxrender also seem to utilize GPU cores in some fashion. AMD is also supporting Linux (other companies do as well) and while not perfect, it's good to see AMD supporting/creating/promoting more open standards. Keeps the 'bigger guys' on their toes at least, and hopefully helps keep prices down a bit for us consumers. Sure AMD stumbled the last few years (I still supported them, typing this on an A8-6410), but they are making do the best they can with their resources (Nvida and Intel are Huge in comparison budget wise), and to be honest I'm glad to see them as competitive as they are today at this moment (We'll see how Vega shakes out in the next month or two). Intel and NVidia will surely one up them in the coming months but in the meantime maybe we'll see some more competitive pricing from the two giants.
More and more display manufacturers are adopting AMD's Freesync standard, some would argue that AMD really helped get people excited about DX12/multicore utilization/close to metal options earlier with their Vulkan/close to metal push a couple of years back (and their console wins helped too), and AMD was first to market with HBM for GPU's (Fiji was/is an interesting product). Sure, we all want more/better support, and this is all marketing oriented (AMD has to make a buck somewhere, and supporting open standards increases interest in their product), but at least they are trying and hanging in there.
People have been predicting the death of AMD for decades now, but they still manage to innovate and surprise us here and there. I'm liking where Radeon development is at right now (keeps the more affordable options competitive), and having AMD in the 'affordable' segment is good for consumers.
And yes, I'm excited about larger amounts of vid card memory because I seem to like making complex 3d scene reenders. While a 1080ti seems to be in my near future (Iray is pretty, I like it, and it's well supported with Daz), hopefully AMD can get a stronger foothold than they already have in the rendering space. The 3Delight folks would do well to get on the 'utililizing GPU cores for renders' bandwagon, to compete with IRAY more directly if nothing else.
Yes, NVidia needs some competition. ATI = 32 GB VRAM for $999, NVidia = 11 GB for $700 (their cheapest $/MB solution). NVidia is definitely overpriced.
Very encouraging..... unfortunately it is so much like the Beta-VHS rivalery so long ago.
Look at Poser, using a render engine that cannot use the iray system and all the shaders that suport it.... if they had, eg. gone to iray there would be the option to use all the iray stuff in Poser as well. So much easier for DS/Poser fans, greater commonality.
I have only one computer, and I have to choose carefully what gadgets and software to use. If this new card could support iray it would be heaven.
And when LUX is finally able to fully use GPU, being free, it will be a massive shift again.
I can only hope LUX will/can use Nivedia some day, and 3Delight also supports Nivedia.
In frustration, he asks, is it possible to have an ATI and a Nivedia card running in the same computer for different programs?
Actually, a little bit ago I read somewhere where they had and AMD and NVidia card in crossifre/sli mode... lessee if I can find it...
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3036760/hardware/the-impossible-has-happened-radeon-and-geforce-come-together-in-directx-12.html
Haven't read much more recently than that, but apparently it's possible. As to which programs will play nice with such a setup, that's another can of worms.
Just think how much more the 1080ti would have been without any competition whatsoever... Nvidia is already feeling the pressure from 'competent' Polaris, and I'm very curious to see how Vega shakes out in the next month or two. AMD seems pretty optimistic about Vega already.
http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-rx-vega-performance-gtx-1080-ti-titan-xp/
I'm sure Nvidia will leapfrog over AMD if Vega is as good as they think they is with NVidia's next release, but that's why competition is good. It gives companies incentive to innovate/continue pushing boundaries.
I'm still nostalgic about the early days of Athlon, Exciting times... lots of innovations came to the table during that period (moving northbridges and in some cases southbridges on to the CPU die, 64 bit, hypertransport, hyperthreading, etc. etc.). These days, it's mostly about more cores and faster speeds, and CPU tweaks. All well and good, but it was really fascinating reading around the turn of the millenium watching AMD and Intel cranking out new innovations at such a furious pace.
Intel isn't quite coasting these days (the new Optane storage technology looks very intriguing, for example), but it's good to see AMD keeping them slightly nervous (even if Intel does have something like 75% of the Desktop/Laptop CPU market at the moment).
Windows 10 will take the same percentage as Windows has done since Microsoft changed the logic to avoid most video card driver BSODs.
Given than Unity is intergrating Octane into it's core as a freebie it would not be surprising if OctaneRenderer isn't extended to support AMD video cards via ProRenderer. Also given Unity's multiple platforms it supports it wouldn't be a surprising that sometime in the not too distant future Octane support is more generalized to a SW stack like Vulkan and Metal.
There is only so long a SW can support old HW at the expense of supporting new HW. AMD Ryzen CPU don't even support any Windows OS less than Windows 10 - that's how big an improvement Windows 10 is to the older versions of Windows.
I drop IRAY in a moment, if it was easier to get stuff to Blender and use Cycles; in a month or two I should have some more time, so will likely spend some of said time figuring it out.
Well, the big question is if DAZ Studio will pick up support for the new 3Delight if it ever comes out, as IIRC DS only has a stripped down version of it.
I personally would love to use OpenCL and ProRenderer but too much stuff out there is moving towards Iray. Even Substance.
FYI, Pro Duo is 16GB per GPU. So it's still effectively 16GB, not 32GB.
AFAIK the only limitation of 3Delight in DS is number of cores/network rendering. Some features aren't accessible in the DS GUI, but they are there.
...so like the old (terribly overpriced) Titan Z it is actually two separate GPUs permanently linked together. I remember Nvidia touting the Titan-Z as having 12 GB when for rendering purposes, it only had 6 (though twice the cores of a Titan Black).
Still at 999$ it is 1,500$ less than Nvidia's only 16 GB card which is in the more expensive Quadro line (P5000 which retails for 2,500$) and 200$ less than the 12 GB Titan Xp. Will be interesting to see how Nvidia responds.
May need to dust off Reality and Lux.
Unfortunately you cannot download the SDK anywhere. AMD is big at creating fancy websites and marketing shizzle, but when it comes to getting a documentation and a download, they drive me crazy... the FIreRender downloads end up in a redirection loop - site A points to site B which points to site A. If anyone knows where to download the SDK, please let me know...
What we have to face, and wich is what irated me when DAZ with iRay came out, is that AMD is locked out and is so for the foreseeable future. There's a reason why DAZ 4.8 (don't know about 4.9) is branded in NVidia corporate colors, showing their logo, using their technology. I highly doubt that DAZ is allowed to include a AMD renderer, and even if they are, they will definitely not spend the efforts to do so - from their point of view they have a nice renderengine already; that it locks out 25%+ of the users seems acceptable to them, otherwise the decision would have been a different one back when they decided to go full NVidia. I would have went for compatibility, but I understand that NVidia makes you offers you cannot resist - while you should...
I'd love to be wrong on this, so if I am, please correct me, but I think that's the way it is.
That is really really sad and boy, to put it in a very nice way.
Yeah you can CPU-Render, but, it consumes so much more time, you always need to tweak your renders (multiple times) and it makes a difference if I need to re-render for half an hour or a day+, multiple times. To me CPU rendering is just not useable, I NEED GPU rendering and actually I have everything it needs, but it's from AMD...
I'm currently fiddling with Vulkan and once i got things up and running again, I'll try to complement my daz model loader by a IBL renderer or something like that. Something, that leverages my GPU (and actually works with every vendor that supports recent standards). I already get pretty good results with OpenGL, but much more can be achieved with Vulkan.
Until then...well...sometimes I fire up DAZ, set up a scene, hit render and after an hour or two I think "**** it, it takes way too long" and abort, then do something different.
To reiterate on the options:
* Ocelot looks/looked very promising, but not sure how to leverage that without recompiling Studio, which we can't. Maybe it could be compiled into WINE, but really not sure if that would work.
* Octane is CUDA only, so it's out.
* Reality, while being a good tool, has problems with converting skin and iray materials. There are problems on linux as well, I cannot render straight from DAZ, which I'd like to.
* AMD HIP - looks promising, but again only marketing blah, no downloads yet. Also, it only converts CUDA, I doubt that this is enough to make iRay cross-vendor (if they are even allowed to).
Any other option, besides coding everything on your own?
That's a lot of speculation. At the time Iray was added the AMD ProRender didn't (publicly, I imagine AMD had internal development versions) exist.
DAZ Studio's version of 3Delight has had unlimited cores on one PC for a long time. Someone actually used to post they had one of those multi-CPU workstations and it did use all the processors and cores.
Yes, and I think I made clear that it is speculation, because, of course, I cannot know for sure. :-)
Yes, FireRender did not exist back then, but that's not the point. The point is that DAZ locked in on a vendor specific solution, which in turn locks out a part of their customers (amd+intel) of GPU rendering. I absolutely understand that there were reasons behind this decision, but I don't have to like it, do I? ;-)
To link back to the topic: I think this new card of AMD is a killer, it is really great and "affordable". But we cannot use it for DAZ and that is really really sad.
When I saw this thread I felt the need to make it clear that AMD and Intel are out of the game when it comes to DAZ Studio for quite a while (pretty obviously, no speculation here), so better not hold the breath. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, really.
Peace.
I see it as good news for Daz IRAY users. Nvida is very competitive. I suspect they'll have an equivalent to the Radeon Pro Duo within months of it's release.
If the AMD card sells well, you'll see Nvidia do it. I remember people posting elsewhere not so long ago who would need more than 2GB?! It will happen if this card sells.
2GB?
ha!
Not so long ago, 640k was the max, as no one needed more.
I think that was back around 1987...
I'm very interested to see how they respond. Very interested to see how fast the Titan Xp is with Iray, of course the price is a tough pill to swallow. This AMD card may drive the prices down. :)
The scenes I'm rendering might be too much for the 1080 Ti - I have Nvidia Inspector which shows mem usage, but I'm not sure how accurate. Some scenes with 4 Genesis 3 figures reporting 11GB usage.
Whippersnappers.....
I remember when 4k of core memory was enough to run a multi-user system.....Good Old EduSystem-5 on a PDP-8/E.......
Yeah, I remember going to Radio Shack back in the day, and buying some chips to upgrade my 4k TRS 80 to 16k (back when I was a young lad). That was a big deal back then, even if it was just a trash 80, with the chiclet keyboard. Somehow, we still have chiclet keys on laptops though...
Ahhh, how Radio Shack has fallen... remember when they uses to have all sorts of transisters, etc. on their walls?
Hm. I may be confusing 3Delight with Renderman compliancy...
...doesn't scripted rendering open a few of those features up?