Bot for Genesis problems

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Comments

  • ParrisParris Posts: 388
    edited December 1969

    Jay_NOLA said:
    I filled a support request 6 days ago on the crashing when trying to apply BotGen_All to Genesis.

    I haven't heard back from support about it. The support number is #141371. The issue still isn't fixed.

    Will definitely make a follow up post when I do get a reply back.

    Thanks for reporting it and for keeping me posted. I know that my QA tester tried 32 bit DS and didn't get the crash. I wonder if it could be a memory issue. How beefy is your system?

  • TigerschneckeTigerschnecke Posts: 64
    edited December 1969

    Parris said:
    encountered a new issue, this happens when you apply just about any morph

    If someone else is getting this issue with the hands what I did to fix it is I

    First installed created two folders on my desktop, one for each version of the bot for genesis installer, folders names were 1.1 and 1.2

    then I installed version 1.1 into the 1.1 folder and the 1.2 into the 1.2 folder

    I then moved all the hand parts from the 1.1 folder into the 1.2 folder overriding the files

    I then moved the files from the folder I created into my the folder where I have my content

    and it works

    thank you

    John, I think what you are doing is just overriding the new files with the old ones. The result is that it may work in DS but not in Poser. The update should be a full install with everything you need. Are you using Daz Studio 4.6?

    Still having this issue in Poser - perhaps some more uninstalling and reinstalling will fix it there as well? Just applying the DAZ install manager with the update did not work for me there.

  • ParrisParris Posts: 388
    edited December 1969

    Tigerschnecke,

    Did you see my reply to your other post here?: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/16305/P15/

    Poser users need to apply morphs before loading Bot Genesis figures, so the props will be where they are supposed to be.

    On a side note: I noticed that DAZ has not updated the ReadNe with my latest notes (I need to remind them) and I wonder how users are supposed to find the ReadMe if they use the Install Manager.

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 9,402
    edited December 1969

    Finding the ReadMe with the InstallManager: just click on the little "i" for information

  • TigerschneckeTigerschnecke Posts: 64
    edited December 1969

    I have tried uninstalling, reinstalling, and reinstalling to a different directory now.

    When I load a shape-morph (e.g., Haley) in Poser and then load and conform a hand, I now get "access violation" messages for all the finger-joints. The actual shape of the hand appears to conform ok - but these elements still do not manage the move (see below).

    I did not get the "access violation" messages before the update, so it looks like it is now trying to do it but somehow still cannot.

    BotGenesis_Poser-Issue.png
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  • HeraHera Posts: 1,525
    edited December 1969

    I'm having the same issue - with the finger joints outside - in DAZ 4.6.0.18. I'm using the old hands, and it works partly, save for the left thumb, see here http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/23254/

  • ParrisParris Posts: 388
    edited December 1969

    I have tried uninstalling, reinstalling, and reinstalling to a different directory now.

    When I load a shape-morph (e.g., Haley) in Poser and then load and conform a hand, I now get "access violation" messages for all the finger-joints. The actual shape of the hand appears to conform ok - but these elements still do not manage the move (see below).

    I did not get the "access violation" messages before the update, so it looks like it is now trying to do it but somehow still cannot.

    Tigerschnecke,

    I'm just guessing here, but it looks like the access violations are referring to materials you collected for use with Reality. Since I've added native materials for Poser with this update, maybe your old Reality materials for Bot Genesis don't have something valid to reference anymore. Maybe if it not a big deal you could delete those materials or ask Paolo about that?

    That may be separate from the hand parts being outside the hand. So to troubleshoot, we need to start with some common ground because right now this is a problem that I can't reproduce. If you are certain you have uninstalled the original Bot Genesis and have installed 1.2, then can you start with a common morph like Freak 4 or Aiko 4 or something? See if the mech bones still end up outside the hand. Also it might help to know your version of Poser, whether it has been updated, version of the DSON Importer, OS and Computer specs (like CPU, Video Card, Memory, etc.). I know that you need the latest versions of DS, the DSON Importer, and Poser 9 or Pro2012 (service pack 3) for this all to work. It's a highly complex set of engineering to get Genesis and the Bot Genesis hands to work in Poser. So missing a piece of the combination of all that would seem like a likely cause for what you are experiencing.

  • ParrisParris Posts: 388
    edited December 1969

    Herakleia said:
    I'm having the same issue - with the finger joints outside - in DAZ 4.6.0.18. I'm using the old hands, and it works partly, save for the left thumb, see here http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/23254/

    At this point, I'm inclined to think that "mech bones outside the hands with morphs applied" in DAZ Studio has a very different cause than the similar looking issue in Poser. DS users need to be certain they are not using some combination of the old and new files for Bot Genesis. That's why I'm recommending uninstalling the old and making sure you don't have something lurking in the auto_adapted folder or elsewhere before installing the new version.

    I understand that you guys are remedying the issue by using the old data assets and Wearables, which is fine. But I think this is an isolated issue for a few, and I don't think I can fix the problem if I can't experience it. If Herakleia or JohnDelaquiox or someone else who is having this problem in DAZ Studio would be willing to work from a fresh install of the updated Bot Genesis and create a common ground for testing with me than we maybe able to find the cause so others don't have to struggle. I already have another update (minor) in the works and would add a fix to that if needed.

  • TigerschneckeTigerschnecke Posts: 64
    edited June 2013

    I have tried Poser Pro 2012, SR3, as well as Poser 2014. It happened in both versions. I uninstalled bot genesis, and it did not fully remove everything, so I searched the harddisk for bot genesis and deleted everything I could find, then installed version 1.2 (including the companion files).

    I have also tried Daz Studio 4.6. It used to work perfectly there but not any more - i.e., I get similar issues there now. On the upside, the materials work much better with the new version of bot genesis than they did before. I work on a 16gb i7 quadcore laptop with an NVIDIA GT 650 card. I have not tried Aiko 4 yet, but the issues occur e.g., for Aiko 5 - or basically anything where the shape of the hands is significantly different from the base figure.

    That said, I do do know the file structure and organization of the DAZ studio files and genesis so well, and I occasionally have had issues before where for example a new shape was not detected or was unresponsive. This seems to fix itself when I open the "old" version of poser and load genesis there before returning to 2014 and repeating the same there.

    When I tried to delete everything, I next loaded an old scene-file with bot genesis. This still showed the outline shape, if I remember correctly, but had none of the actual elements and the image would render as if it was not there at all. I hope this is not too confused to give any hints on what is going on. Will try again later, perhaps I can be a bit more systematic about it..

    Post edited by Tigerschnecke on
  • TigerschneckeTigerschnecke Posts: 64
    edited December 1969

    And yes, I also think the Reality materials are a separate issue. I think I just tried it once with bot genesis.

  • ParrisParris Posts: 388
    edited December 1969

    I have tried Poser Pro 2012, SR3, as well as Poser 2014. It happened in both versions. I uninstalled bot genesis, and it did not fully remove everything, so I searched the harddisk for bot genesis and deleted everything I could find, then installed version 1.2 (including the companion files).

    I have also tried Daz Studio 4.6. It used to work perfectly there but not any more - i.e., I get similar issues there now. On the upside, the materials work much better with the new version of bot genesis than they did before. I work on a 16gb i7 quadcore laptop with an NVIDIA GT 650 card. I have not tried Aiko 4 yet, but the issues occur e.g., for Aiko 5 - or basically anything where the shape of the hands is significantly different from the base figure.

    That said, I do do know the file structure and organization of the DAZ studio files and genesis so well, and I occasionally have had issues before where for example a new shape was not detected or was unresponsive. This seems to fix itself when I open the "old" version of poser and load genesis there before returning to 2014 and repeating the same there.

    When I tried to delete everything, I next loaded an old scene-file with bot genesis. This still showed the outline shape, if I remember correctly, but had none of the actual elements and the image would render as if it was not there at all. I hope this is not too confused to give any hints on what is going on. Will try again later, perhaps I can be a bit more systematic about it..

    Ok, that sure seems like a file remnant issue to me, though I'm not sure if there are any problems with having Poser 2012 and 2014 on the same machine. It may be helpful to you to know more about the file hierarchies for both DS and Poser. The filelist is here: Bot Genesis File List. Basically, both DS and Poser Companion user files (the ones in "People" and "Runtime" in this case) reference the same asset files in the "data" directory. So if old versions of Wearables in either of those directories are calling new data files (or vice versa) then there are bound to be problems, especially with the hands which got altered the most. Have you checked to make sure you have the latest DSON Importer? Also, we can often get a good clue from what the log files for both DS and the DSON importer say. In DS navigate to Help > Troublshooting > View Log File. And, in Poser its Scripts > DSON Support > Importer Preferences > Log File > Show... (Button). If you can share those log files, that might help a lot.

  • ParrisParris Posts: 388
    edited December 1969

    Kerya said:
    Finding the ReadMe with the InstallManager: just click on the little "i" for information

    I forgot to say thank you for that. Nice to know it was there all along. I just wasn't reasoning that the "i" was for ReadMe.:)

  • Jay_NOLAJay_NOLA Posts: 1,145
    edited December 1969

    Did some further testing and I suspect the problem may be a Studio 4.6 one and not one with the files.

    I installed 32 bit 4.6 on an old XP 32 bit laptop, which is not as powerful a my Windows 7 32-bit one, s and Bot and it loaded ok. I did notice that studio got a little slow and so did some other programs after using them for a bit. Also had problems opening up some older saved scenes too after awhile and got a memory usage warning.

    I have my old 4.5 installers and uninstalled 4.6 and installed 4.5 and the slow down issues were not an issue on the older laptop with 4.5.

    On my main system which is a Windows 7 32-bit using DS 4.6 laptop. Got it to load but required a full restart of the computer.

    Similar slow down and scene loading problems that the older laptop had after using 4.6 for a bit.

    Had same loading problems from before that I reported inn my earlier post after using 4.6 for awhile.

    It looks like 4.6 is causing some sort of memory problems that can cause loading problems depending on how long you've been using the program.

    4.5 didn't have any slow down problems with usage.

    Parris said:
    Jay_NOLA said:
    I filled a support request 6 days ago on the crashing when trying to apply BotGen_All to Genesis.

    I haven't heard back from support about it. The support number is #141371. The issue still isn't fixed.

    Will definitely make a follow up post when I do get a reply back.

    Thanks for reporting it and for keeping me posted. I know that my QA tester tried 32 bit DS and didn't get the crash. I wonder if it could be a memory issue. How beefy is your system?

  • TigerschneckeTigerschnecke Posts: 64
    edited June 2013

    Thank you for being so responsive, this is really nice - a lot to try out. Below is how it currently looks in DAZ Studio for me when I load genesis as V5 and apply bot genesis. I will try to PM you the logfile, maybe this is helpful. I have not tried the other suggestions yet - something for the weekend.

    Bot_Genesis_issue_02_DAZ4_6.png
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    Post edited by Tigerschnecke on
  • ParrisParris Posts: 388
    edited June 2013

    Thank you for being so responsive, this is really nice - a lot to try out. Below is how it currently looks in DAZ Studio for me when I load genesis as V5 and apply bot genesis. I will try to PM you the log file, maybe this is helpful. I have not tried the other suggestions yet - something for the weekend.

    You're welcome! If I had my way, this would just work for you and you wouldn't have to troubleshoot anything. I did get a look at the DS log files you sent. Not too much in the way of hints for me right off the bat, but it may be helpful later. By the way you can get a fresh log file anytime by just deleting the old one and then doing something in DS.

    Anyway, the image of the thumb thing does give me a hint though. I'll bet the distortion has to do with center and end point for the bones not being correct. Herakleia has a screenshot in another thread here: Bot Genesis Failure . That looks an awful lot like yours. With Herakleia, the thumb issue appeared after merging old files in with the new. After a while Herakleia figured out that the thumb files from the old product hadn't been copied over. So if you have tried some similar file merge then that maybe the problem. If you haven't merged old with new intentionally, then it still seems like an indicator that new and old files are mixing unintentionally (through unwanted remnants).

    Sorry if you've already done this but... The uninstaller should delete all the old files. If it is not doing a good job for some reason then you should manually delete the following 5 folders + 1 files set from your library before running the Bot Genesis 1.2 Installer and the Bot Genesis Poser Companion 1.2 Installer:

    1. The Bot Genesis Folder in data/Parris/
    2. The Bot Genesis Folder in People\Genesis\Clothing\
    3. The Bot Genesis Folder in People\Genesis\Materials\
    4. The 3 Bot_Genesis files in Runtime\Support
    5. The BotGenesis Folder in Runtime\Textures\Parris
    6. The Bot Genesis Folder Runtime\Libraries\Character

    It may seem like you are a lot closer to where you want to be with just the thumb messed up. But it's not really a place from which I can provide a fix in the way of an update, since I need to be making something that will work for everyone (not just for folks who are combining old and new versions of the files). If you still want to work with the old files, then the hands definitely won't work in Poser. Prior to the update, the Bot hands in Poser (like any other glove with a prop parented to a finger) cause the hands to be mangled horribly. It's a rare bug in Poser that only Smith Micro can fix. What we have in the update is a complex combination of extra bones and ERC that Chris Jones developed as a workaround.

    Post edited by Parris on
  • HeraHera Posts: 1,525
    edited June 2013

    Thank you for being so responsive, this is really nice - a lot to try out. Below is how it currently looks in DAZ Studio for me when I load genesis as V5 and apply bot genesis. I will try to PM you the logfile, maybe this is helpful. I have not tried the other suggestions yet - something for the weekend.

    Seems like you did the same mistake as I. When I copied the data files from the old to the new bot, I missed the ones for the thumb, since they were a bit further down in the list. Make sure you get them as well according to this pic and you should be able to get the thumb looking more kosher

    Namnlös.png
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    Post edited by Hera on
  • TigerschneckeTigerschnecke Posts: 64
    edited December 1969

    Thank you. I have tried this now, and was careful in copying the old files for the hands over the new ones (and just the hands), as explained earlier in this thread.

    However, before doing this, I tried to delete each and every bot-genesis related file, and now I am back to square 1 because the joints of the fingers again won't follow any shapes correctly (this is in DAZ Studio, not even trying Poser at the moment anymore). For this, I re-downloaded the old files from the product library because I had previously installed the old version via the install manager - and I had deleted the install-manager download files in one of the very fist couple of attempts I made in trying to get it to work. Therefore, I am not sure if the file "IM00015588-01_BotGenesis.zip" that I got via the product library is actually truly the old 1.1 version. If it isn't, then that might be the reason while I still cannot seem to get those fingers to work.

    Alternatively, there might still be a file related to it in some other directory that I missed and that is still being autoadapted? Again, I am not sure because I have tried installing, uninstalling, etc. in at least half a dozen different directories before this latest attempt.

    What I can see in DAZ is that the joints do tend to move a little bit, but never enough. I.e., the rotation often seems to be ok, but rarely the scaling, depending on the shape.

  • ParrisParris Posts: 388
    edited December 1969

    IM00015588-01_BotGenesis.zip is definitely the new version, not the old. I confirmed this by downloading from my Product Library and opening the zip and looking in Content > People > Genesis > Clothing > Bot Genesis and finding the additional torso Wearable that I added to this update (BotGen_Torso_b.duf). You won't be able to download the old version from your Product Library anymore.

    I know some folks are trying to use the old hands in DS to fix the problems they've been having with the bones fitting the morphed hands, but I still say that's not the way to go. It's putting a bandaid on something that may continue to cause problems somewhere else later. The new update should work fine for folks if they've don't have some corrupt files lurking about and they have all their software updated.

    Hey, I just thought of something. Maybe you don't have the latest version of Genesis or it's corrupt. The latest Starter Essentials is 14812_GenesisStarterEssentialsPoserCF_1.13_trx.exe. If you run the installer, it should delete the old version of Genesis before installing the new one.

    I may have another suggestion if that doesn't work, but let's start with that.

  • TigerschneckeTigerschnecke Posts: 64
    edited December 1969

    I finally got it to work! I still had version 1.11 of the starter essentials - but it's also possible that there were even older parts of Genesis lurking somewhere. I ended up removing everything Genesis-related, and reinstalling the whole thing with all the new files in a new folder. Now it's working fine in DAZ as well as in Poser.

  • ParrisParris Posts: 388
    edited December 1969

    I finally got it to work! I still had version 1.11 of the starter essentials - but it's also possible that there were even older parts of Genesis lurking somewhere. I ended up removing everything Genesis-related, and reinstalling the whole thing with all the new files in a new folder. Now it's working fine in DAZ as well as in Poser.

    Oh, thank goodness! Finally. I'm glad it's working for you at last. It sure seems like not having the latest Genesis was the problem. I know for a fact that the new rigging and ERC that was implemented to fix Bot Genesis's hands in Poser wont work right in either program if you don't have the latest Genesis version (Starter Essentials).

    I hope others who have had this problem (mechanical finger joints outside the hand when a morph is applied) will take note. I'm definitely going to ask DAZ to add the requirement to the ReadMe.

    Thank you for reporting your success! I'm relieved that I finally have an understanding about why some folks were having these problems.

  • TigerschneckeTigerschnecke Posts: 64
    edited December 1969

    Once it works, it's a very versatile and powerful product. Speaking of which, if I may ask without starting a new thread: Is there a way to use the head without the earpieces? For most purposes I want them to hide the ears, but not always.

  • ParrisParris Posts: 388
    edited December 1969

    Once it works, it's a very versatile and powerful product. Speaking of which, if I may ask without starting a new thread: Is there a way to use the head without the earpieces? For most purposes I want them to hide the ears, but not always.

    What about just not using the head piece? Most of the other details are pretty subtle.

  • TigerschneckeTigerschnecke Posts: 64
    edited December 1969

    I have been working on an animation where someone (or something) says a specific set of sentences. For this, the facial expressions, movements, etc. are very important, so I am using a closeup view. Genesis is great for this because it allows systematically different shapes in addition to textures. I will put a few example still images below. I.e., I am trying out a range from something very human looking, to robotic, to alien, to alien+robotic. It's for the last category where the level "alienness" may be more important than the roboticity.

    Render_2.png
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    Render_1.png
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    Rio_NT.png
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    Rio_HWT5.png
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  • ParrisParris Posts: 388
    edited December 1969

    Very Cool! Seems like if you wanted more roboticity with the head in the last shot but wanted to keep the ears elfish, that using a metal texture might be sufficient without the Bot Genesis head figure. What do you think?

  • TigerschneckeTigerschnecke Posts: 64
    edited December 1969

    Parris said:
    Very Cool! Seems like if you wanted more roboticity with the head in the last shot but wanted to keep the ears elfish, that using a metal texture might be sufficient without the Bot Genesis head figure. What do you think?

    I will give it a try - although it would be nice to be able to hide the ears. Transparent materials etc. do not seem to work for that though - the ears are just hidden once the head is applied, and I can only see the outline in preview mode. Perhaps a workaround would be to use another Genesis figure, animate it in the same way but make the head transparent except for the ears? Sounds terribly complicated though, and it's not all that important..

  • ParrisParris Posts: 388
    edited December 1969

    Parris said:
    Very Cool! Seems like if you wanted more roboticity with the head in the last shot but wanted to keep the ears elfish, that using a metal texture might be sufficient without the Bot Genesis head figure. What do you think?

    I will give it a try - although it would be nice to be able to hide the ears. Transparent materials etc. do not seem to work for that though - the ears are just hidden once the head is applied, and I can only see the outline in preview mode. Perhaps a workaround would be to use another Genesis figure, animate it in the same way but make the head transparent except for the ears? Sounds terribly complicated though, and it's not all that important..

    With geografting, the polygons that make up Genesis's ears are actually being replaced by geometry that makes the mechanical ears. So hiding polys with transparency would mean you just had a hole with nothing underneath. Still I'm not sure why you want the Bot Genesis head in this case. Is it just because you want those little grooves and hard edges I added in places on the nose and head? If those aren't important then applying one of the materials to Genesis without using the Bot Genesis Head figure should suffice. No?

  • TigerschneckeTigerschnecke Posts: 64
    edited December 1969

    Yes, it's about the little grooves and hard edges. Small details, but they're great! But it's kind of a different topic since it's no longer about bot genesis not working.

  • Jay_NOLAJay_NOLA Posts: 1,145
    edited December 1969

    I heard back from support regarding my tech problem and they said the problem I experienced would be fixed in a future update as it was being worked on currently.

  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 3,000
    edited December 1969

    Jay_NOLA said:
    I heard back from support regarding my tech problem and they said the problem I experienced would be fixed in a future update as it was being worked on currently.

    Maybe that's what happened today? I logged into DIM to see if updates to something else were available, and it told me that there was an update to Bot Genesis. Unfortunately, while the Readme does list the update, it's very unspecific. Says only, "2013-06-12 - 1.3 - Additional updates for improved function."

  • JohnDelaquioxJohnDelaquiox Posts: 1,134
    edited December 1969

    This latest version 1.3 has the same issue with the hands.

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