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Button and Belt rigidity

marblemarble Posts: 7,500
edited March 2017 in The Commons

I wonder why, when a PA creates clothing, that belt buckles and buttons are not made rigid? As soon as I pose a character, I am put off the garment because the buttons and buckles look like they are from a Salvador Dali painiting. I'm not a modeller so I'm not clued up on how to make things keep their shape but surely it is possible?

My suspect memory kicked in and I thought I remembered reading about this before. So I tried google and found this:

http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/userguide/creating_content/rigging/tutorials/rigidity/start

So it seems it is possible so why don't the PAs do it?

Post edited by marble on

Comments

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 108,077

    A Rigidity Map does nothing for distortions caused by posing - its job is to protect the mesh when a morph that is sued on the figure and is not on the fitted item is projected into the fitted item. There are ways to protect hard parts from bending-induced distortion, but they can have issues. On approach is simply to make sure that the weights across the rigid item are uniform, but that then is likely to need mutliple morphs to stop the rigid section digging into the rest of the fitted item (or even the base figure) - and it is applicable over a limite area (you coldn't really make a whole belt solid, for example0. Another option, for items like buttons that have a very small area of attachment, is to use a Rigid Follow node. However, both approaches are fiddly (pushing up development time and item cost) and have a good chnace of requiring adjustments in posing (making the item more complex to use).

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500

    Well, it seems the only option for me is to delete any belts and try to make buttons as small and unobtrusive as possible (usually by setting the colour close to the background cloth colour). 

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 108,077

    You could always make your own Rigid Follow Nodes if you are going to remove the existing buttons - in fact you could make a free-standing copy of a button and use instances of that aprented to the Rigid Folow Nodes for the buttons (then you may need to adjust their orientation to avoid self-intersection). Belts, if you mean solid leather belts or the like, are much moer of a challenge.

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    Richard Haseltine said:

    You could always make your own Rigid Follow Nodes if you are going to remove the existing buttons - in fact you could make a free-standing copy of a button and use instances of that aprented to the Rigid Folow Nodes for the buttons (then you may need to adjust their orientation to avoid self-intersection). Belts, if you mean solid leather belts or the like, are much moer of a challenge.

    I'd have to read up on all that because I had not been aware of Rigidity Follow Nodes before now. I found a YouTube video so I'll take a look.

  • FistyFisty Posts: 3,416

    Buttons normally aren't too hard.. Belt buckles are a >major< pain in the butt to get rigid, like hours and hours and hours of extra work.  I do it, but a lot don't.

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    Fisty said:

    Buttons normally aren't too hard.. Belt buckles are a >major< pain in the butt to get rigid, like hours and hours and hours of extra work.  I do it, but a lot don't.

    Perhaps DAZ might think about making it easier in a future version. 

  • FistyFisty Posts: 3,416

    It was much easier (for me at least) with genesis 1 and 2, make the buckle and everything around it one weights and use bulge modifier to fix the poke-through.  The weight mapping for Genesis 3 is..  annoying (much tamer word than is in my head)..   Not to mention all the extra bones G3 has.

  • Seven193Seven193 Posts: 1,141

    I have the same problem with items that are auto-fitted, like earrings and other jewerly.  Perfectly round objects get warped and don't look round anymore.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 26,235
    Fisty said:

    Buttons normally aren't too hard.. Belt buckles are a >major< pain in the butt to get rigid, like hours and hours and hours of extra work.  I do it, but a lot don't.

    Fisty, what is an example of a product with the rigid belt buckle? I wonder if I have it. If not, I want to get it.

  • FistyFisty Posts: 3,416

    https://www.daz3d.com/alfred-s-finery-for-genesis-2-males-s

    https://www.daz3d.com/ginger-snap-outfit-for-genesis-2

    https://www.daz3d.com/sebastian-s-outfit-for-genesis-2-male-s

    I haven't done many.. and none for G3 yet (though I have one in the works, but it's connected to a shirt).  Keep in mind it's almost entirely done with weight mapping, if you try to auto-fit any of those to G3 they'll turn back into rubber.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 26,235
    Fisty said:

    https://www.daz3d.com/alfred-s-finery-for-genesis-2-males-s

    https://www.daz3d.com/ginger-snap-outfit-for-genesis-2

    https://www.daz3d.com/sebastian-s-outfit-for-genesis-2-male-s

    I haven't done many.. and none for G3 yet (though I have one in the works, but it's connected to a shirt).  Keep in mind it's almost entirely done with weight mapping, if you try to auto-fit any of those to G3 they'll turn back into rubber.

    Thanks for the list, and thanks for the auto fit warning, too.I didn't realize autofit would do that, but now that I think about the weight mapping issue, it makes sense.

  • edmundglassedmundglass Posts: 0

    I know this thread is stale... but I'm new here.
    I just found this little tutorial about "rigid follow nodes" because I was having the same issue (with someone elses art that I was looking at):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp4x6DmDfc8

    Seems a bit convoluted at first, but if I'm going to create something from scratch ( say a belt ) then I'm going to do this straight away!

    Distorting belt buckles and such are a pet peeve.

     

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