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224 S 200 W, Suite #250
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I think for visual novels 3D can create more problems than it solves... like, it can be fun conceptually but on a limited budget, you gotta focus on what it actually brings to the game.
The engine can handle the data fine, however I don't know if the reader/player can. My story is more than 75,000 words with all of the added branching. It's to large for one story. I need to find some natural break points and create some short stories instead, which should reduce file size for each "installment." I think I was a little to ambitious with this project.
Trish
Everlasting Summer, YES! Lena for life
, lmao. (Can't help it, I prefer a chick with a bit of a yandere side.) 
The game itself doesn't allow 3d movement, but the sprites are made in 3d (using daz) and some of the background art is very 'Scream'-esque (bordering on macabre line art). The Daz sprites make them easy for me to change poses of, and more photorealistic compared to anime/manga looking art.
Call of Cthulhu Tabletop RPG is awesome.
I attached a background shot.
75k is not generally considered too long, unless you're targeting some contest with a playtime limit? I mean, 75k is short for a modern (non-visual) novel and the classics of VN-dom are usually much, much, much longer.... (As a comparison, Analog: A Hate Story is apparently around 60k words. Fate Stay Night is 1 million words.)
http://gaming.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_longest_video_game_scripts
Thank you @dreamfarmer for the information! I guess I've been operating under misinformation, which is why I'm glad I found the support group
Trish
I was gonna say.... Clannad is super long lol.
When I watched the trailer again for Everlasting Summer, I suddenly remembered the emotions brought up by the main music theme. The music by itself pushes me to play it again. The introduction to the story with many captivating high quality screens did a great job as well for creating interest. But then when you arrive at the camp and you realize it's going to be always the same sprites against empty backgrounds ... the effect unfortunately wears off (at least for me). The card game was a nice addition and the story does keep you wondering about how to explain everything (I read a guide after one playthrough).
I think the art of your backgrounds could really be well suited for the insanity inducing Mythos theme.
The biggest downside of classical VN to me is the way that characters are typically being used without much realistic integration into the background. Some exceptions that I know of are school days, tell tale games, Muv Luv Alternative to some extent, but they are out of my talent/budget reach to make. I didn't do a lot of publicity for my VN yet and I have no idea yet what people will think about it. I thought about first continuing with development until I get to a point in the story with some major events and new character introductions, where I can really show more of the potential the story has. I couldn't actually find a single VN yet that is doing what I am doing: full 3d environments/characters from a first person perspective. There are some that have full 3D but they are always third person perspective where you see the protagonist on screen (and have almost always explicit/adult content). The only 3D VN style game with first person I found is this short video
.
I think that's an interesting idea and I wonder why it didn't occur to me. Maybe lack of background flexibility-- I'm doing the standard thing with character sprites with different expressions in front of a mostly-static flat-rendered background and I've definitely reassured myself a lot that I could just use what I had. If I was trying to solidly fit the sprites into it I'd probably be a lot more detail-obsessed than I already am.
There are some adult 3D VN's that are in first person perspective. I also see huge potential in what can be done with this style. To me, it seems much more economical to be able to reuse the same assets for different scenes by adjusting them, rather than having to pay a 2d artist to draw each scene separately. Also you could incorporate the use of different view perspectives into gameplay easier.
However, I don't think I saw a successful 3D western non-adult visual novel. So it is uncertain how receptive it would be to gamers.
One of the main problems with 3D for me is that I have to rely on environments that are not specifically made for my story. Anyone could use them, so it's less unique, and I have to somewhat build my story around what is available.
Another thing is that there's a lot more work involved with making something similar to live 2D in 3D. I simply don't know how I could make something like in the video I mentioned in my previous post. So far I think the best I can do on my own is adding expressions and mouth open/close with spot renders.
Different viewing angles and moving characters around makes lighting also more complex.
Making sure that there's no collision between characters and background, like fingers melting with the furniture, can be annoying, but it's something you get used to eventually.
Despite these issues it's a lot more entertaining and motivating for me to make something in full 3D than 2D.
I uploaded a video where you can see what I am doing. It contains minor spoilers. It's my first scene that I made with Ren'Py. Previously I used Tyranobuilder, but now I think Ren'Py is better for when you feel already comfortable with making a novel. The lighting in this scene was already fixed with the environment. I only decreased exposure value by 1 point to make it a bit less dark. Character models are all based on genesis 8.
Yeah I get what you mean. But I think of it like lego. You can assemble different parts together and customise them so they look unique. I guess if you are completely relying on pre-made assets then it does feel constraining. I'm thinking of possibly paying people for custom assets here and there so that the art can really be unique.
Do you also want very dynamic 3d movements like in the video? I think you might be better off using live2d + unity/unreal if you really want to go that route. Daz3d excels at pre-rendering very detailed images but it isn't designed to render anime characters and real time art.
I didn't know there's actually a lot of effort required to make things look good in different angles.
I heard Daz3d is weak when it comes to physics stuff like that. But I think there are some tools like dForce for fluid clothing and stuff so I hope it is good enough without having to use other softwares.
Also, good work with your first scene in Renpy. I'm not knowledgeable with the amount of work that goes into the art but I think you did a decent job. What improvements have you looked into since making this scene?
There are construction kits for making your own buildings. I didn't do this yet because, as I do everything on my own, I want to save time by choosing something I like that is already finished and I am not convinced that the quality of such kits will be as good as fully created scenes. You will probably also need additional props and the kits remain limited in what they can do. I guess it would be better to make something really unique always but the question is also, are people going to notice that your material is not specifically made for your story? Knowing that 3D novels are stil rare, chances that somebody is going to have a novel with exactly the same environment are low enough I think.
I sometimes do already combine stuff, like putting the interior of a restaurant in a city block which only contains exterior views of buildings. This can be a bit complicated, but still manageable so far I think.
I started the idea of a novel by thinking I could only manage non animated screens so I never tried to make real movement. I am not familiar with software like Unity. I don't think I have the time for that. Already now I am wondering if I will be able to finish the game by the end of next year. I am not sure also if the basic license covers real movement. If I would be able to make something like a tell tale game, I would love to do that, but that would be a huge project for many people to work on. On the other hand, I like the idea of working on my own, because I can make all the decisions myself.
For lighting I think it's best to plan ahead if you are using different viewing angles and make sure to light every part of the environment and characters that is important before you start rendering. If you add lights afterwards and you have overlapping parts between two viewing angles, the lighting/shadow may not look consistent. Now I have to say also that I am certainly not a specialist with that. I have been struggling a lot with lighting and I am still learning. A big improvement has been for me using this ghost light kit https://www.daz3d.com/iray-ghost-light-kit-2. It's easy to use and makes renders quicker.
I don't use things like dforce (yet). If I can't make everything look perfectly with a few basic sliders then I just edit in post work, sometimes by combining two renders and erasing the bad parts in one of them.
For the most important characters in my story, I spend at least an hour for each one to make them unique with facial morphs. I did spend a lot of time also making the school building, which is a combination of several copies of the same entrance hall to make it a lot bigger. Setting up a scene with a lot of characters/posing takes quite some time too.
The scene in Ren'Py that I showed is already one of my latest achievements so I didn't make much improvement since then. I now finished making a prologue and I think I can say that, thanks to using ghost lights, graphic quality has improved compared to the previous version of the starting scenes in my story. See video below (i just noticed now there's a mistake in the video - there's a character on screen that shouldn't be there because she moved... ).
I am now in doubt if I should buy Visual Novel Maker. It's because I have a problem with a video backdrop in Ren'Py. This worked fine in Tyranobuilder and while Ren'Py is more practical in some ways than Tyranobuilder, for a video backdrop it's quite a bit more complicated. I get the error that my video has an unknown audio channel. I couldn't solve it with a guide and I am now waiting for a solution from people on the forum. EDIT: I got a reply to my problem which solved everything. The coding has been simplified and it's really easy now to have a video backdrop in Ren'Py.
I was wondering, if any one here is going to buy Visual Novel Maker? Any impressions so far?
Just a heads up for those who are on the fence about Tyranobuilder and Ren'py, Visual Novel Maker is finally out on steam!
I seen that but the price looks alittle steep to. DO you happen to own it and if so how do you think it compares to other tools you used?
There's a new VN out with movement in 3D rendered environments. It's made with Cheetah 3D. I thought it's interesting to mention it. There's a free demo for it.
https://lockedon.itch.io/broken-minds ;
http://lockedonstudios.wixsite.com/lockedon/single-post/2017/11/02/Broken-Minds-Released
Haven't bought it yet, waiting to see more reviews come out. So far there's too few to make a decision, plus I also found the price a bit steep. We've been using Ren'py for our visual novel and, despite a learning curve, we've got the hang on it now, so we might continue with Ren'py.
Reminds me of 999 (Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors). This game also features 3D environments, since the gameplay is done as an "escape room" adventure. Here's a video of the first chapter (it's a really good game, though it starts a bt slow).
I'm using Tyranobuilder for Arcane City. I like the interface. Easy to use.
Any impressions of the Visual Novel Maker?
I was a beta tester for VisualNovel Maker and my game’s demo was released as part of a package of demos. It’s pretty good although one of the price justifications isn’t there for people committed to making their own art.
My demo is here: https://vnmaker.itch.io/ (Bramble-Child).
Unfortunately the level of interest from... well... anybody in my existing readerbase or beyond was nonexistent so I’ve decided to release the rest of the story as a standard book for now. A highly illustrated one, using the art I made for the VN plus a bunch more. It’ll be coming out on Amazon and Gumroad Jan 2.
I do have a very small game in (suspended) progress using the included assets for VNmaker and I had some style ideas looking for a story last night but as of now my projects actively including both Daz assets and a VN engine have ground to a halt. Sorry, guys. :(
on VNmaker: if you’re happy with something else there’s no reason to switch. But if you use TB and want more complexity, or you use Ren’py and want a more visually cued way of implementing complexity (and access to extensions shared via the Steam workshop) it is probably worth picking up.
This looks great. Can I ask the difference between the 2 versions available for download? the source download looks considerably larger. Does it have more story or just more data files.
Thanks! The source is a version somebody with VNMaker can open up to read through the original code/script, while the other smaller one is just the implementation/playable version. I'd LOVE to complete the interactive version sometime... I was just getting too stuck on it and not continuing on with other projects that would pay better.
I tried the demo and I had a problem that when the fox and crow arrive, the game freezes. It happened 3x in a row. I can only get past it with skip.
The backgrounds are very good and you have a lot of nice poses for your main character.
I love fantasy but I think the story in the beginning needs more description. I would describe more about the general world setting and for example how common it is for humans to share the world with other races. I would also explain more who that strange gentleman is. If he needs to remain mysterious, at least say more about how he got into contact with the girl and her mother and what his role has been so far.
I wonder why you didn't get more interest for your story. Didn't you get any reactions at all?
So far I am quite happy with Ren'Py, after first working with Tyranobuilder.
Happened to me too, and I couldn't skip past it. Too bad because I was fond of the style.
No reactions at all. Not a surprise if it freezes like that, I guess. And the company rep who tested/posted the demo didn't mention the freezing at all, so I wonder if it's system specific or something. Ugh.
I pressed skip before getting to that scene. Then you press skip again once the dialogue with the crow/fox has started and you can continue as normal.
My pc is 1,5 year old. Windows 10, 64 bit.
Thanks for the info.
Thought I'd share more before and after comparisons of the backgrounds I ended up reworking. Having a better understanding of how DAZ works, how to light scenes and how to edit textures/surfaces (more so when you compare rendering 3delight materials in iray vs converting materials to iray before rendering) definitely shows!
This is absolutely amazing, Giselle. I'm going to brag about knowing you here someday.