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Having a big problem with 4.9.3.166

AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,175
in The Commons

I'm making these mixed drinks models and you can see in the image I'm having a big problem that I've never had before in previous versions of Studio. So long as I keep the models (made into grouped sets with separate parented props parented to the drinking glass) in the same place and orientation as they the are when imported, they render ok. As soon as I translate or rotate them, I get what's in the image. This isn't my first time modeling a glass with liquid in it for DS either so I know what I'm doing ;). The liquid inside the glass is made FROM the inside of the glass and the mesh of the liquid is touching the inside of the mesh of the glass.

Has anything changed in this version that would cause something like this? I'm at a total loss and I must say this is extremely disappointing as I make freebies for DS semi-regularly. Any help or insight will be greatly appreciated.

Laurie

Something Rotten.png
1200 x 1200 - 3M

Comments

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,175

    For reference, the above are "supposed" to look like the images below (which had not been translated or rotated before rendering).

     

    Tequila Sunrise.png
    1000 x 1000 - 608K
    Pina Colada.png
    1000 x 1000 - 623K
    Vodka Cranberry.png
    1000 x 1000 - 573K
  • LinwellyLinwelly Posts: 6,055

    I have no experience with modelling so I might not be able to give any useful information,

    one question would be if you render in 3delight or Iray and if there is anthing special about the shaders you used ( different from what you used before). My first impression is that the mesh is interacting with each other, probably with the dispacement in the surface shader?

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634

    if you are rendering in Iray then Iray likes the liquid mesh to overlap the glass mesh so they intersect.

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,175
    edited March 2017
    Szark said:

    if you are rendering in Iray then Iray likes the liquid mesh to overlap the glass mesh so they intersect.

    And when I do that (tried that already) I get weird shadowing. I just don't know what to do :( Something's changed in the Iray materials between the last version and this version.

    Laurie

    Post edited by AllenArt on
  • RGcincyRGcincy Posts: 2,862

    There was a recent problem with "On the Shore" rendering one shader black in .166. The PA fixed it and said this:

    "In this updates fixes the problem with the white and black spots in the DS 4.9.3.166. The shader mixer in new version DS 4.9.3.166 became more accurately refers to the maps of the alpha channel, so they should only be connected through the float. In this update, this problem is solved."

    Have no idea whether that change impacts you or not but is a difference in at lesat one shader property from the previus DS version.

  • 3WC3WC Posts: 1,140

    What are you seeing exactly?  The only problem I notice is with the milky drink, and some funny rectangles at the bottom of the chocolatey drink.  The other two look ok.

  • Digital Lite DesignDigital Lite Design Posts: 728
    edited March 2017

    When I made my set, the liquid inside intersected the glass about 1/4 between inner and outer.   I don't get weird shadowing.  The concepts is that if they don't intersect, you will get the weirdness and shadowing between the meshes.  Here is a render of my glass in .166.  It's grainey.  But you get the idea.  :)

     

    AllenArt said:
    Szark said:

    if you are rendering in Iray then Iray likes the liquid mesh to overlap the glass mesh so they intersect.

    And when I do that (tried that already) I get weird shadowing. I just don't know what to do :( Something's changed in the Iray materials between the last version and this version.

    Laurie

     

    Glass_liquid.png
    733 x 948 - 147K
    glass 01.jpg
    700 x 910 - 844K
    Post edited by Digital Lite Design on
  • FistyFisty Posts: 3,416

    And I do the opposite, leave a very small gap between the glass and the liquid.  Then again, I haven't "upgraded" to 4.9.3.166 yet.  Someone want to try my potion bottles and see if they have a problem?  They were a weekly freebie, most people should have them.  http://www.daz3d.com/perfect-potions

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,175
    edited March 2017

    Well, I tried with the liquid mesh sitting on the glass mesh and with the liquid mesh intersecting. I get the weird "hole" artifacts with the liquid mesh sitting on the glass mesh if I do any translations or rotations and dark shadowing on the glass and liquid when I intersect the liquid and glass a little bit. I get the worst shadowing on the SSS liquid shaders (milkshake, frozen pina colada, etc.) and less on clear liquids or liquids that have some refraction (vodka cranberry and tequila sunrise). I'm going to box everything up and send it over to my desktop and try rendering there to see if I have maybe a corrupted installation of Studio here on the laptop. I think I also have an early beta version still installed there as well I can test it in to see if it does it there.

    If it's a problem with an alpha, then the uber shader itself needs fixed so it only connects thru "float" as I'm only using the uber shader. 

    Folks familiar with my freebies know I've made at least two glass props with liquid in them and I had no such problems with those ;). One was made with 4.8 and the other with the previous version of 4.9. That's why this problem has me so stumped. It SHOULD be working. LOL.

    Laurie

    whiskey.jpg
    600 x 600 - 53K
    soda.png
    600 x 600 - 415K
    Post edited by AllenArt on
  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,175
    edited March 2017

    This is with the liquid intersecting. Hopefully you can see the dark banding on the two outside glasses (choc shake and pina colada) and less on the two in the center (but still there on the tequila sunrise). Doesn't matter if the glass is straight refractive or glossy refraction or what the IOR is or whether or not it's clear or dispersive. Ugh. Maddening.

    Laurie

    Liquid Intersecting.jpg
    1200 x 1200 - 726K
    Post edited by AllenArt on
  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,175

    Ok, this is pretty much what I want. Not sure what I did, but I'm afraid to move anything. LOL

    Laurie

    Milkshakes.jpg
    1200 x 1200 - 896K
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 26,223
    edited March 2017

    Here is a render of the potions and also the AllenArt drinking glass. I thought the drinking glass bubbles were supposed to be in the liquid, but they seem to be down in the bottom of the glass??? I don't see any bubbles in the orange liquid. It doesn't look like the image posted above. This was rendered with DS 4.9.3.166 just a few minutes ago.

     

    Potions and AllenArt drinking glass.jpg
    2000 x 1500 - 609K
    Post edited by barbult on
  • FistyFisty Posts: 3,416

    Thanks Barbult

  • macleanmaclean Posts: 2,438

    I do the same as Fisty - I leave a tiny space between the glass and liquid. See http://www.daz3d.com/everyday-drinks for more images.

    01-everyday-drinks-pa-sale-daz3d.jpg
    1000 x 1300 - 394K
  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,175
    edited March 2017
    barbult said:

    Here is a render of the potions and also the AllenArt drinking glass. I thought the drinking glass bubbles were supposed to be in the liquid, but they seem to be down in the bottom of the glass??? I don't see any bubbles in the orange liquid. It doesn't look like the image posted above. This was rendered with DS 4.9.3.166 just a few minutes ago.

     

    The bubbles were a separate prop that I decided to let ppl use if they wanted because they were so poly heavy ;). It's probably there in your props with the glass and you just missed it :). There are actually bubbles IN the glass as well....looking at most of the drinking glasses that I have, 9 out of 10 have bubbles in the glass...heh.

    Laurie

    Post edited by AllenArt on
  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,175
    edited March 2017
    maclean said:

    I do the same as Fisty - I leave a tiny space between the glass and liquid. See http://www.daz3d.com/everyday-drinks for more images.

    For whatever reason that wasn't working out for me and I'm not sure why. Intersecting the glass looked better but I had to make it bigger than just a smidgeon or I got strange effects like the very first image. I think next time I go down this avenue I'll make thinner-walled drinking glasses ;). Might make a difference tho I haven't tested it yet.

    Beautiful stuff you made btw :).

    Laurie

    Post edited by AllenArt on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 26,223
    edited March 2017
    AllenArt said:
    barbult said:

    Here is a render of the potions and also the AllenArt drinking glass. I thought the drinking glass bubbles were supposed to be in the liquid, but they seem to be down in the bottom of the glass??? I don't see any bubbles in the orange liquid. It doesn't look like the image posted above. This was rendered with DS 4.9.3.166 just a few minutes ago.

     

    The bubbles were a separate prop that I decided to let ppl use if they wanted because they were so poly heavy ;). It's probably there in your props with the glass and you just missed it :). There are actually bubbles IN the glass as well....looking at most of the drinking glasses that I have, 9 out of 10 have bubbles in the glass...heh.

    Laurie

    Aha! Yup, there it is. I guess the thing that confused me is that there is a "bubbles" surface in the AADG_DringkingGlass. I didn't go looking further, because I thought that must be the bubbles in the beverage. Well, in my defense, it was almost 4 am when I set up that render. wink I wasn't in the clearest mind, but I wanted to support Fisty's request for a potions render. I think all three products in this render look great: potions, drinking glass (with bubbles), and everyday drink.

    Potions and drinking glass and cocktail.jpg
    2000 x 1500 - 650K
    Post edited by barbult on
  • macleanmaclean Posts: 2,438
    AllenArt said:
    I think next time I go down this avenue I'll make thinner-walled drinking glasses ;). Might make a difference tho I haven't tested it yet.

    I discovered with the first couple of models I made that the glass thickness can be crucial. I wasn't getting the effect I wanted, so I went back and made the glasses thinner and they looked a lot better.

    It's difficult to say exactly how thick they should be. Depends on the modelling program, etc, but it's definitely a really important factor in the final look. I'd go for as thin and as near to real-life glasses as as you can.

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,175
    edited March 2017

    Actually, I did model the glass over an image of a real glass, so the walls really are that thick. I think tho that thinner glass would be better - at least look a bit more realistic when rendered. I used Wings3D to model most things, mostly out of habit because I know it the best and therefore it's the fastest for me. I just started using version 2.1.5 and I modeled all the above in the new version, so I'm still not sure if it's not partly the mesh, but I don't see any reason why the resulting mesh should be different than with previous versions. But one never knows :).

    Laurie

    Post edited by AllenArt on
  • hphoenixhphoenix Posts: 1,335

    Also remember that the TYPE of glass you are trying to emulate is important in relation to it's thickness......the IOR varies from Flint Glass to Crystal to Pyrex to etc., etc.  So different density glass will require different thickness to render similarly.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 26,223
    edited March 2017

    Laurie, the milkshakes look wonderful. I added them to my potion shelf scene for a quick try. I hesitate to ask, because it sounds so greedy, but I loved those bendy straws in your earlier previews. Will those show up in a future freebie sometime?
    Interestingly, I rendered this one with spectral rendering, and the yellow potion in the round middle jar turned brown.

     

    Potions and Drinking Glass and Milkshake with caustics and spectral.jpg
    2000 x 1500 - 761K
    Post edited by barbult on
  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,175
    barbult said:

    Laurie, the milkshakes look wonderful. I added them to my potion shelf scene for a quick try. I hesitate to ask, because it sounds so greedy, but I loved those bendy straws in your earlier previews. Will those show up in a future freebie sometime?
    Interestingly, I rendered this one with spectral rendering, and the yellow potion in the round middle jar turned brown.

     

    Those will likely end up in the mixed drink addon for the milkshakes. When, I don't know at the moment ;). I need to redo them and see if I can't weight map them so the bendy part actually works. Morphs didn't work so well. Looked great at 0 and 100 but not so great at anything in between. LOL.

    Laurie

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 26,223
    AllenArt said:
    barbult said:

    Laurie, the milkshakes look wonderful. I added them to my potion shelf scene for a quick try. I hesitate to ask, because it sounds so greedy, but I loved those bendy straws in your earlier previews. Will those show up in a future freebie sometime?
    Interestingly, I rendered this one with spectral rendering, and the yellow potion in the round middle jar turned brown.

     

    Those will likely end up in the mixed drink addon for the milkshakes. When, I don't know at the moment ;). I need to redo them and see if I can't weight map them so the bendy part actually works. Morphs didn't work so well. Looked great at 0 and 100 but not so great at anything in between. LOL.

    Laurie

    Great! I'll watch for them. I love your stuff. It is as professional as stuff in the store.

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,175
    edited March 2017
    barbult said:
    AllenArt said:
    barbult said:

    Laurie, the milkshakes look wonderful. I added them to my potion shelf scene for a quick try. I hesitate to ask, because it sounds so greedy, but I loved those bendy straws in your earlier previews. Will those show up in a future freebie sometime?
    Interestingly, I rendered this one with spectral rendering, and the yellow potion in the round middle jar turned brown.

     

    Those will likely end up in the mixed drink addon for the milkshakes. When, I don't know at the moment ;). I need to redo them and see if I can't weight map them so the bendy part actually works. Morphs didn't work so well. Looked great at 0 and 100 but not so great at anything in between. LOL.

    Laurie

    Great! I'll watch for them. I love your stuff. It is as professional as stuff in the store.

    I finished the new straw and made it straight. Hope I learn how to weight map really quickly. LOL

    Laurie

    Post edited by AllenArt on
  • FistyFisty Posts: 3,416

    I can do it for ya if you can't figure it out Laurie.

    Barbult - no idea.

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,175
    edited March 2017
    Fisty said:

    I can do it for ya if you can't figure it out Laurie.

    Barbult - no idea.

    Aw, that so nice of ya Fisty, but I gotta learn it sometime :P. LOL I'm not SO dense that I can't figure it out ;). I think. I hope. Heh.

    Laurie

    Post edited by AllenArt on
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