3D Painting

13

Comments

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,476

    Welp, I just saved myself $140.

    I'll share the shader once I figure out, er, how.

     

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 18,016
    Vyusur said:

    Phil, Dartanbeck, Will, thank you! During several last days I tried both Substance Painter and 3d coat. Substance painter hangs up my machine. 3d coat does the work but it spoils some areas on my textures, some times it simply stops painting on the areas where it painted before. Even Carrara does texture painting more smooth, but it can't take sample right on the place where you paint on. I must try some more painting in Carrara. It's cool enough to paint in Carrara, and I've got invisible seams between different UV areas in my short practice.

    Awesome! I've been really happy with Carrara too. I am happy to switch to my 2d editor when that feels better... so it all becomes pretty fluid after a while.

    I really like your character painting. It reminds me a Lot of a character I've just met from Mass Effect 2, Thane, the assassin. They do look different... big time. But they certainly remind me of one another a lot.

    We can really get creative in Carrara's 3D Paint, having the possibility to add layers, set opacity and so many brush options....

    I like it.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,476

    Here's my first test with the shader. A wall plate texture. Used Baker to export textures, and then sucked it into Daz Studio and rendered in Iray.

    Pretty happy with this!

    Add in the possibility of layering it and creating masks I can paint, and I am yet again amazed at what you can do in Carrara.

     

    Plateman.png
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  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 18,016

    Here's my first test with the shader. A wall plate texture. Used Baker to export textures, and then sucked it into Daz Studio and rendered in Iray.

    Pretty happy with this!

    Add in the possibility of layering it and creating masks I can paint, and I am yet again amazed at what you can do in Carrara.

     

    I'm glad you got it working. I have to admit, I'm still really lost about what you're trying to do with tiling. From this it almost looks like you wanted to tile the texture across everything - or at least parts of it. I don't know. 

    The thing that gets me is, well, the UV Mapping for any of the Daz3d figures (or other humans) are very specific. Tiling something across them just seems wrong to me. But I come from being taught by a more old-scholl texture artist, whom actually painted directly on UVW Map templates. I still enjoy doing that. So in that, I was starting to think of something like Genetica, which can produce tiled textures along with accompanying bump and spec maps - whatever we want. It's node-based, so I'm not sure if that's what you mean by the old CAD style or not. I've never done anything CAD, but Node-based can be really fun.

    I was really lucky and got Genetica Basic in a very inexpensive bundle which no longer seems to exist. The CoolCreativeBundle was put together to let any of those out-of-the-ordinary software apps help to create exposure to the rest of them. 

    Anyways, Genetica has a whole lot of preset textures - all procedurally built (even though they actually look like texture images) and we can select them and export them as they are or we can also tweak them to make them different. They all tile, but we can also tile them before rendering them into a texture map. But it can also output other maps at the same time. I don't use it a lot, but sometimes it's just what the doctor ordered.. and I'm really grateful to own it!

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 18,016

    I like the textures, but I'd also like to add that I like the shaders' setup and lighting of this as well. 

    Very nice job.

    I especially like the realistic eyes - looks like a tortured soul

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 18,016

    He kind of reminds me of RawArt's Tin Man, whom comes with bump and displacement maps as well as specific morphs to help create this amazing character. I love this thing!

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,476

    Yes, I'm trying to tile across an entire figure, and I hear you about painting.

    But what I want is the ability to cleanly have several layers tiled, then be able to paint masks to reveal various things, and then be able to paint layers on top of THAT.

    I'm not confident enough of my freehand skills to attempt detailed stuff completely through paint, particularly with a mouse interface.

     

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 18,016

    Special note about displacement:

    Displacement allows us to actually change the shape of a mesh through its shaders. Along the gray scale, 50% Gray = no change, Black = Extreme carve in, White = extreme build up out.

    So when working with Displacement maps, have a look at them. If they have any dark areas, know that this will cut into the mesh. If we don't want anything carved out, then we must use another function to keep the darkest part of the image from falling below 50% gray. If we know already that there is indeed pure black in the image, we can simply Add a value of 50%, or a color of 50% Gray (or several other methods of doing it) to the image.

    Know that, in Carrara and most other displacement-enabling render engines we can, and often must, allow the engine to subdivide the mesh during the Displacement phase. Carrara shows a warning that, while the slider's numbers are small, they do  a LOT in Subdividing the mesh, and can therefore easily be overdone - causing sluggish rendering - possibly even a program crash. 

    Although I try to avoid displacement on a normal basis, I do still enjoy using it when I need to, and love how Carrara handles it. We can really do a lot of different manipulations with it! ;)

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,476
    edited February 2017

    Oh sure. In Iray, displacement is handled by manipulating the mesh, which is really contingent on the mesh poly count. In 3DL, it somehow... isn't. I'm not sure how, but displacement is a lot more forgiving with 3DL rendering.

     

    And the cool thing is, that guy I just posted took maybe 5, 10 minutes to put together, once I had worked out how to do the shader.

    With more time and effort I could do lots more.

     

    Post edited by Oso3D on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 18,016

    Oh sure. In Iray, displacement is handled by manipulating the mesh, which is really contingent on the mesh poly count. In 3DL, it somehow... isn't. I'm not sure how, but displacement is a lot more forgiving with 3DL rendering.

     

    It likely auto-Subdivides

    Phil Wilkes has us build an entire city out of a simple Plane primitive using only a shader in Infinite Skills' Advanced Carrara Training

    But he even puts little lit windows and brick walls on all of the buldings too.

    Those courses really opened my eyes to a lot of extra thinks I've never thunk before! LOL

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,108

    Will - great work on the metal man render!

    Dart is mostly but not entirely correct about displacement, in that there is a setting that allows you to define if the displacement is entirely outward, entirely inward, or anywhere in between such as the 50/50 that Dart mentioned - it is the Offset control. Default is 50% which is the 50/50 setting.

    I've said this on another thread, but while Carrara's displacement can quickly become very resource intensive due to the need to subdivide the mesh, Octane seems to apply it's own displacement mappping as a render-time effect and so the resource hit is not neally as much - I have used it on large ground planes without a hitch, while doing the same with Carrara's displacement would likely grind it to a halt.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 18,016

    Cool! Offset at 0 then would only add without carving at all? or would it be 100?

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 18,016

    Here's a really fast demonstration of Deep paint 3D

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,108

    Pretty cool demo!

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 18,016

    Yeah... old stuff, too. I remember back when DP 2.0 came out. Feels like forever ago - I was just beginning to learn 3D stuff back then.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,476

    Ugh. And now I'm noticing dark edges around exported stuff from Baker, which makes for a lot more work. mmph

     

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 18,016

    For an idea of what Deep Paint 2.0 is all about (I know that it's kinda hard to find info about it) I've found a pretty decent tutorial about it.

    Retouch Pro Deep Paint 2.0 Tutorial - by Photomaster

     

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,311
    edited February 2017

    Hi Will,. sorry for the bad explanation,. let me try to explain in a better way.

    Procedural shaders use 3d space,. textures use UV space (2d)

    the paterning or your Tinman,. (arms are a good example) changes depending on the position ot the figure in 3d space.

     move the arm, the  shader effect changes,.

    You need to Bake the procedural shaders to convert them into a texture map,. then that effect can be applied in a predictable way which will not change when the figure is moved.

    Although it's possible to apply a Procedural shader to a model with multiple domains,. because the shader is using 3d space,. and the parts occupy different areas of 3d space,. the shader will have differences because it's not a repeating texture map. it's a semi randomised procedure.

    Some procedural effects can use UV coordinates to apply shaders,.. but not all,. and that UV mapped shader wil remain in place when the figure is moved.

    to help illustrate,.. In the shader room,. change the preview to "flat" to see your procedural shader as a flat 2d texture,.

    There is a SCALE option in most procedural shaders,. to adjust the density of fractal effects,. there is also a "transforms" tab which alows you to adjust the X,Y,Z scaling.

    Tiling can only happen when you have a Fixed section of texture (image map)  not procedural effects. that's the scale of effect,.

    You can export a plane with your procedural shader,. then you can use that as a texture map and use tiling,.

    or you could use that texture map in the 3dpaint

    Genesis doesn't have overlapping textures,. it has a set of texture maps which are applied to different domains on the model.

    What you may be referring to is the initial display of the UV grid space in carrara

    the default setting is "Show all",. but you can disable that and select individual domains to see the UV layout.

    I hope that makes a bit more sense.

    :)

    edited to add,.

    In Baker,. the default option is to Merge shading domains, change that to "Split domains" to export individual texture maps for each domain in a multishader model.

     

    Post edited by 3DAGE on
  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,476

    I have to test it more, but I ran into an issue with Baker where it was leaving a dark line around the edge of the texture. That could be a problem if it's a general issue.

     

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,311

    have a look at the Background colour in baker , it should default to white,. but also look at the type of filtering on the Texture map ,. Carrara 8. introduced Fast MipMap as the default setting,. Change that to "Sampling" ...which was the previous default filter.

    Fast mipmap uses clever math depending on the camera position,. this can show seams sometimes depending on the camera position.

    also,. if you don't have it already,. take a look at MeshMixer ,. www.meshmixer.com

    it could be ideal for what you're doing.

     

  • not seen the dark line maybe its a result of displacement?

    what I have done painting DAZ figures is created an obj where I made new shading domains combining ones that share the same maps in the vertex room and deleteing eye and mouth parts.

    This also means as few as 3 maps to export in baker.

  • VyusurVyusur Posts: 2,140
    edited February 2017

    Here is I have applied the same shader: procedural on the left figure (Aiko) and baked on the right (Gisele). It looks a little different, but I didn't encounter any problems with seams.

     

    Fungus_girls.jpg
    1500 x 1500 - 549K
    Post edited by Vyusur on
  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,476

    And this is my consistent result. :/

     

    test.png
    667 x 1080 - 726K
  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,311

    i'm not seeing that here.

    just did a quick test, made a procedural shader, applied to all domains, baked, then loaded the baked out textures.

    do you have a dark background to your baked textures,. ? 

     

     

    freak baked.jpg
    814 x 654 - 74K
  • VyusurVyusur Posts: 2,140

    3DAGE, cool!

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,311

    I actually did this earlier to show the texture change effect of procedurals as the figure's pose is changed,.

     

    freakyskin.jpg
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    shader.jpg
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  • cdordonicdordoni Posts: 579

    Shaders Plus has a prodedural lock, not sure if it would work in this application, the following is from the product description:

    "Procedural Lock lets you use procedural or project based shaders and bones or morph targets at the same time."
  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,476

    Maybe it's a side effect of the particular effect I'm using. Mmph.

     

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 18,016

    Maybe it's a side effect of the particular effect I'm using. Mmph.

     

    Are you still using FastMipMap under Texture Map filtering?

    Anywhere a map is used, try changing the filter method from FastMipMap to Sampling, as was already suggested earlier. Otherwise... yeah... it's likely as you say.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 18,016
    cdordoni said:

    Shaders Plus has a prodedural lock, not sure if it would work in this application, the following is from the product description:

    "Procedural Lock lets you use procedural or project based shaders and bones or morph targets at the same time."

    Oh right. It lets us use procedurals that normally slide through a moving figure lock to its polygons, right? I forgot about that!

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