Easiest way to rig a new character

Syrus_Dante

I'd rather see a skeleton system that didn't rely on "what's closest to this bone?

No the Transfer Utility dosn't rely on the bone placement of the Source and the Target Item. Its the geometry of that Source and the Target that needs to be close for a good result in transfering WeightMaps and Morphs.

I mean you can also transfer the skeleton hierarchy with the option "Merge Hierarchies" unter the General Options "Weight Map". This will make shure it dosnt delete any ghost / helper bones or in common sayed the existing rig on the target figure - like for example ponytails on hair - with this merge option it just copies and adds the neccessary bones of the conformer figure eg. some genesis figure to make it a conforming figure.

Maybe I should get my tutorial Cone_Hat finished to show you what DazStudio does with the "Inherit Skeleton of Target" option in the "Convert Prop To Figure" dialogue.

- I'm almost done. Here are my first screenshots to show you a sneak preview.

 

 

Richard Haseltine

DrNewcenstein said:

I'd rather see a skeleton system that didn't rely on "what's closest to this bone?" and the resulting seams in the mesh, but rather a single mesh figure that bent with minimal stretching, which would eliminate the incorrect bulging, but rather contraction (the buttocks are the worst for this). Not sure how exactly it would be implemented or else I'd have done it already :D

As for a redistributable, if you build the skeleton outside of DS and DS could read it properly, like FBX, then it should be up to you how and when it's redistributed. The trick there, however, is getting DS to read an outside skeletal system correctly. I'm sure they're using their own system for a rea$on.

I think you are confusing the Transfer Utility, which is for rigging a figure to match another (for creating add-ons for the source figure) with rigging a new figure from scratch. The issue with reditribution is that the rigging of the daz figures is copyright - Daz licenses it for creating add-ons but not for stand-alone figures. I'm really not sure what you mean about reasons for "their own" rigging - there's nothing extic about the system used, although the specific shape, boning, and weights are of course proprietary.

Syrus_Dante

Syrus_Dante said:

You can also load in these PHI files into the DazStudio Figure Setup pane to have all bones settings as a template to start over with DazStudio rigging.

I just checked the DazStudio Figure Setup pane again and I cant find the option to load PHI files - I thougth once there was this option - maybe in a previous version?

 

Syrus_Dante said:

If you want to have some level of compatibility you have to take care of the bones naming conventions dictated by Daz or Poser figures.

Richard Haseltine said:

...there's nothing exotic about the system used, although the specific shape, boning ?, and weights are of course proprietary.

So you cant redistribute an independent figure (not a conforming figure - hair / clothes... but a character) with different geometry and different Weightmap and no Morphs shaped like something on a genesis figure - but with the same bone naming convention like for example the genesis 2 figure with the shoulder bone named like Name:"lCollar" - Label:"Left Collar" and the upper arm bone named like Name:"lShldr" - Label:"Left Shoulder" and so on?

Syrus_Dante

kenmo said:

IMHO I thought rigging would be the easiest part of creating a 3D character, not the hardest.

Rigging is going onto my things I do not like or do not want to do, along with retopologyzing...

Dont worry - if you think of professionals that work on comercial productions in the 3D industry for CGI special effects on movies or commercials or games. They always work in a team with one person specialized in modeling and another person specialized in rigging and then maybe another team of people that produce the animations. Its not only that they need to work together also thier tools they use in the production pipeline need to work together so there needs to be some exchangeable filetypes that the tools in use can handle. In comparison to what we try to do as hobby 3D artists - we try to do it all in a one man show. At least we have the advantage to work with the tools we like and we have no tight schedule for a release date.

I think I read a quote somwhere that says something like: learn a bit of everything related of what you do but specialize in some discipline and grow your skills in that to become a professional.

WendyLuvsCatz

you can try legacy rigging and then convert to weightpainting afterwards.

if you name your body parts they can be dragged into a heirachy and a skeleton created

and also thats why I suggested the universally used biped as it is a safer for redistribution industry standard naming convention or use the Poser legacy one that DAZ copied with Victoria and theiir cronies up until genesis 3

extra limbs as in 6 legged creatures you would have to choose how best to name them

DrNewcenstein

Actually I was referring to rigging a new character, not a derivative or add-on, but an entirely new creation, like the aforementioned beetle. I've done a few of those in Poser for a couple of people way back when - one was a Jack Skellington that looked real nice. I had to build the skeleton and set the joint rotations on it. Then there were the various freebies you used to could find, like the Alien from "Alien" that someone built in Max, or the Powerloader from Aliens.

Remember that old Zygote non-poseable elf freebie that had the poseable version you could buy? Yeah, I rigged the free one and saved myself a whole $5 lol

For those, you did have to select which geometry was linked to which bone. I'd rather see something like how Max handles it, without the various bone zones, or at least without the visible seams between each body part.

WendyLuvsCatz

in pictures how I would do it

I will try to next post embed and explain each step

WendyLuvsCatz

a Carrara example figure with named body parts I exported as an obj

loaded geometry on left side adnd dragged into right and dragged each body part into a heirarchy tree then pressed create

what I get in DAZ studio scene tab above viewport with bones coloured and made visible below

 

then I click the little bowtie icon and bring up bone tool

rightclick

move the minsicule red and green arrows on a bone to match the body part and align each bone and click memorise rigging

 

WendyLuvsCatz

once you have moved all the bones and memorised rigging you can go to edit, rigging, convert to weightmapping and choose general

then save as a support asset figure

the bones can be rotated in parameters to pose it

but you need to ad inverse kinametics to make it posable in the viewport by selecting limbs

I know no easy way in DAZ studio (Carrara I can add ball joints with limits to the base bone and children in one go)

only way I know is one by one under the gear icon on each parameter setting limits or locking and hiding transforms

Mistara

rigging tuttss always a help. ty!

 

face rigged dragons?  

Syrus_Dante

• 4:21AM
• 4:27AM
• 4:45AM

24 minutes this was fast.

...of course you already had a praying mantis obj file - did you had to edit the face groups for a meaningful naming of the bodyparts maybe the leg segments had to be split up? Looks like you know what to do in the Figure Setup pane.

I also saw these auto aling node and snap bone ends settings if you activate them in the joint editor even placing the bones becomes much easier because the bones in the chain following while you edit the placement of the others.

kenmo

Thanks for the Carrara screen captures. But as I said before when someone suggested Blender. I am not interested in learning another 3D app.

I already picked up Moi3D and Curvy3D. I have yet to get really comfortable in those apps. Still learning 3DCoat and Silo3D. Hexagon I am quite comfortable in as I am in Daz Studio, Groboto3D and Vue Complete. Just getting to know my way around in Poser Pro 11.1. I also have the free versions of FormZ, Fuse3D/Mixamo (via Adobe CC) and Strata3D.

I already feel quite proficient in Lightroom, Photoshop, FilterForge, Topaz Plugins, ArtRage but still learning Corel Painter 2017.

I'm in my mid 60s and I really do not have enough grey matter left or the willingness to learn Blender or Carrara. There were many times in the past when I set out to learn Blender with online paid tutorials, youtube and a Blender for Dummies book. Blender is not for me. I also own Carrara 8.5 and I much prefer to use Vue Complete which I also own and feel quite comfortable but no where near a Geek At Play master.

I also have 4 Nikon DSLRs and 2 Olympus DSLRs. My plate is quite full.

As I said before if rigging isn't easy, I'm not interested in learning it. I would prefer to improve in the areas of the skills I already have.

I love modeling but I hate retopologyzing. I have very little interest in learning retopoing either.

So IF anyone can suggest a Mixamo way of rigging, please do. 

I don't mean to be rude, but posting screen captures of apps I have no interest in learning is wasting your time. Which I'm sure you could put to better use.

Again many thanks...

 

WendyLuvsCatz

a video of the result

it was a Carrara browser object and I am not really very familiar with DAZ studio rigging I use Carrara

but can roughly do stuff in DS when I need to but is rough

that model was not welded and no leg parts so very rough, it will pop apart as seen in video because of that

Richard Haseltine

Syrus_Dante said:

 

Syrus_Dante said:

If you want to have some level of compatibility you have to take care of the bones naming conventions dictated by Daz or Poser figures.

Richard Haseltine said:

...there's nothing exotic about the system used, although the specific shape, boning ?, and weights are of course proprietary.

So you cant redistribute an independent figure (not a conforming figure - hair / clothes... but a character) with different geometry and different Weightmap and no Morphs shaped like something on a genesis figure - but with the same bone naming convention like for example the genesis 2 figure with the shoulder bone named like Name:"lCollar" - Label:"Left Collar" and the upper arm bone named like Name:"lShldr" - Label:"Left Shoulder" and so on?

You can't use an existing figure as a short-cut. You can certainly model your own mesh, set up its hierarchy through Figure Setup or the Joint Editor option menus, adjust the joint centres with the Joint Editor, paint the weight maps, create and load JCMs if needed, and save it as a redistributable figure. However, if you use the transfer utility you are clearly taking the rigging from a pre-existing figure and - unless it's a merchant resource used within its terms or a previous ly created from scratch figure of your own - that makes it a non-distributable derivative except as allowed by the rights owner of the source (e.g. daz allowing a Genesis to be used to help create add-ons).

kenmo

th3Digit said:

a video of the result

it was a Carrara browser object and I am not really very familiar with DAZ studio rigging I use Carrara

but can roughly do stuff in DS when I need to but is rough

that model was not welded and no leg parts so very rough, it will pop apart as seen in video because of that

Thanks for the tip on welding parts. I may have to redo parts of my bot figures IF I decide to rig the character myself.

The version of Carrara I have is 8.5 Pro 64bit...

I just fired up Carrara. I may reconsider.

If I rig a character in Carrara will the rigging stay with the character if I import it into DAZ or Poser?

What are the advantages of rigging in Carrara or DAZ or Poser?

WendyLuvsCatz

well Carrara can be collada exported to DAZ studio and if rigged in Carrara that often transfers over too with bones misalighned.

I just happen to use and prefer Carrara and it generally is not really compatible with studio.

Poser is actually the most universal of the 3 as long as legacy rigging not their newer weightpainting.

Rigging in general let alone DAZ studio is not really my thing, I only do it to animate stuff not to create shareable models.

kenmo

Sorry but you are forgetting you are replying to a complete newbie when it comes to rigging. I don't know the difference between Poser legacy rigging and weightpainting... :-)

 

WendyLuvsCatz

I just got the modell from Carrara and showed that, those save for the first one with the model were actually DAZ studio screencaptures and my rough attempts to rig in it and I am probably not the one to ask about rigging anyway, I am not really a DAZ studio user as such, it is just my means to get DAZ content into Carrara and iClone mostly.

WendyLuvsCatz

what I can tell is Poser 11.1 imports Mixamo figures as FBX beautifully fully rigged.

and you can save them as a cr2 and load in DAZ studio

kenmo

Thanks kindly... I must try this...

 

EightiesIsEnough

Syrus_Dante said:

@ JonSea31

This is quiet easy just parent the prop that should become a conforming figure, like clothes to the right place on the conformer figure aka base mesh of some Genesis figure (conforming figures are the ones that you can 'fit to' the characters and will follow morph shapes by autogenerating them on the fly - this is basicly the same as using the transfer ulility to do this job). For a conforming figure like Hair it would be the head and for clothes in common it would be the hip. Next use the 'Convert Prop to Figure' action and check the option "Inherint Skeleton Of Parent". Once you get it - its so stupid easy that I have thougt of a little tutorial with a few sceenshots to show you how to create a simple cone primitive, place it on the head and create a conforming Cone_Hat for G2F. I will post the link to this tutorial here - as soon it is finished...

So, I'd like to ask, if I can parent certain clothing items, how do I parent a dress in order to conform?

Syrus_Dante

First I would try to trigger the auto conform dialouge. Load in the Genesis figure and while nothing is selected the dress. Then try to fit the dress to genesis, next there should be this 'fit to' dialouge that says the cloth is made for another figure. But you can select the auto fit clones if you have one for the current genesis version - I know genesis 2 has this long derss preset.

To save these conforming figures as assets to the content library is another question I left unanswered. I allready made a few screenshots but never managed to finished the simple 4 steps picture, because of all the dialouges and options to show in one image.