Question about modeling sizing standards
Serene Night
Posts: 17,560
Hi I have a question. When models are submitted to daz is there a standard sized person "figure" the models are supposed fit. I.e. Are cars and bikes sized to any human standard such as base male or female? I'm just asking because some models seem quite large or too small when it comes to actually posing figure inside them and yes I understand I can resize the enviroment but doing so might distort other things sized correctly.
for example recently encountered a staircase with odd steps and railing. Resizing it to make using the railing plausible would make the stairs kind of large. Similarly vehicles without seat adjustments mean resizing the entire vehicle so the character can reach the gas pedal.
Environments and props with poses seem better designed to interact with characters but I admit I was curious if sets are made to fit specific sized figures or if this is not a requirement?
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in the old days i think Vicki4 was the center of the sizing universe.
or toon Gramps
Geenrally items should be actual size - the DS unit being 1cm. As long as you know your modellers scale you can set the DS OBJ importer options to convert to 1 unit = 1cm and simply model to scale.
It really depends on who made it and whatever they were thinking. For example the millennium cat is huge if you are thinking "house cat" rather than some other cat, and I have a few random objects that differ dramatically in scale as compared to the DAZ/Poser human figures even though created in the Poser format. And of course if it was created with some other market in mind than ours, the scale obviously wouldn't relate to these figures in any way. Sometimes it's intentional for this market; although I don't remember any specific examples, there was something like a building or a mountain or something that was scaled at a tiny fraction of the scale simply so you could easily place and move it in your scene rather than having to position it thousands of feet back of your character in the scene to make it look right. That of course only works if you can't clearly see the ground between the foreground and infinity.
Okay, so then, if I put Victoria 7 in car roland, and she doesn't fit and Michael 7's head is going through the roof. Am I to assume that the car is not correctly sized or Victoria 7 and Michael 7 are disproportionately large.
It's a sports car and they aren't made for tall folks, which all Daz females are.
It depends on when the car was made and released? V7and M7 are definitely taller than the Gen4 figures, I know that from trying to put older dynamic clothes on them and having to scale M7/V7 down.
ETA: There's your problem, Car Roland was made for Genesis 1 and Gen4, ie, virtual peeps shorter than V7.
Car Roland comes with (at least) a pose for M4. You could compare M4 and M7 in height and joint position to see the reason, then maybe try adjusting the figure size a little? Perhaps a Dformer on the car roof (unsure if that would break it or work though).
So...If the vehicle is actual size does this therefor new figures are no longer actual-size? That makes compatibility a big problem.
Also, if you look at the car seat, Vicky is resting on top.....no seat squish, no body squish. That's not realistic, nor does it look like the seat is adjustable (real cars, many seats have a raise/lower as well as a front/back/tilt set of adjustments.
Vicky 7 is TALL. But without measuring Car Roland, I couldn't be certain if it's realisticaly sized.
And I understand the issue.....I'm 6'4" tall IRL, and a lot of cars, I simply can't fit in.....my head is banging against the roof. Especially if there is a sunroof. I sat in a Ferrari 328i once. My chin was was level with the top of the windshield.
In this particular case, I'd put a DFormer on the car seat bottom, squish it down a bit, and lower Vicky a bit.....her hand (in that pose) is supposed to be on the steering wheel. It's several inches above it. She's riding WAY too high, and the car seat needs to be lowered and/or the seat squished by her (lovely if virtual) posterior.
While I don't know the answer without actually measuring each figure and the car, I would guess that the figures are the same scale but simply the height of two different people, and perhaps the car was designed at the same scale but just a few inches shorter than normal, such that a taller figure didn't quite fit. If those guesses are true, then the answer is to either make the car slightly taller or the person slightly shorter.
Yeah... The seat has no adjustments. If I put Michael 7 in it, most of his head is through the roof.
I'm just asking these questions, because sizing standards would help in making things easier for buyers to use...
Good point, that's another option. There are squish morphs for figures (one random example
http://www.daz3d.com/i13-squish-soft-body-effect-morphs-for-the-genesis-3-female-s , there are others and for other figures), and there is a tool to push a shape from one object into another that I haven't tried yet that might be an option ( https://www.daz3d.com/simtenero-shape-reprojector ), and of course a dformer could be used on the seat too.
Unfortunately, just like in the real world, there is no 'standard' length, height, or width for cars.....or much anything else. What we have are standard units. In DS, that's the centimeter. It would be nice if the PA's and DAZ would put dimensions on things (like extents) for props and environments, with some references for other important sizes as well (door height/width, ceiling height, item length, etc.) on the store page descriptions.
I know we have Measure Metrics (when it works properly) to measure stuff ourselves. But we can only do that AFTER we buy something.......
My son is 6'3" tall and is too tall for most smallish cars. Having said that, I've found that the G3 figures are super tall, even in relation to each other (the females are almost eye to eye with the males) AND most 3D model scales are all over the place ;).
Laurie
Then perhaps someone will be kind enough to create some morphs for seat adjustment. Or if you want to learn, you could do it. That'd be a pretty simple morph to make, simply dropping the seat(s) downward.
Thanks for the tip, no, not really interested in learning modeling at this time. I have so many areas of interest with 3d right that I just haven't got the time to focus on that. But maybe when I retire.
Squish looks great. Too bad it is a female only product. That limits its usability for me I'm afraid, since my primary focus is illustrating men.
So far, I've learned that items sold at DAZ are expected to be real world sized, However contrary to that generation 7 is on the tall range of human-sized spectrum. This is informative.
I've met very few women that are 5' 11" or taller. Even the smallest G3 adult female is 5' 8" (Arabella, I believe). Most RL women I know are short, like me (5'3"). My sister who was the tall female in the family is 5' 7"...still below the smallest Genesis 3 female ;). This of course doesn't hold true in every case - height can vary due to race, medical and where you might live, but all in all people are still fairly short generally.
Laurie
I've been having issues getting V7 and her sisters to fit on various couches and chairs, and I compound the issue by re-sizing the ladies to a more realistic 5 foot 6 to 5 foot 8 height.
You should meet my niece who is touching 5'10" at age 14; my experience of working at college campuses that the trend is for young people to be taller on average with the average reaching 5 7 so 5 10 or 11 isn't too unusual.
I use Genesis 3 for all my scaling in the modeling process. I have a standing and a sitting figure saved. I then just select Poser scale on the import. I'm use to doing that from when I was supporting Poser
When I sit in a small car, I scoot my hips forward in the seat, roll my spine and in some really bad cars (that I decided not to buy), my knees were above the bottom of the steering wheel.
You can probably can select the seat itself and use the translation sliders for the selected seat, probably on the Z axis, to move the characters back from the gas pedal. That and tediously pose the character model like a human would sit put in a car like that.
I seated G3F Amaya from the Girl 7 bundle in the driver's seat of the DAZ 1950s Family Car without a problem and also the DAZ 1920s Cigar Racecar. The main hassle was her dress dropping though the bottom of the car.
Wish DAZ had more of a physics engine but I guess that's what Uniy is for.
Maybe it's not unusual in other parts of the country, but in my little corner of the world (southern Pennsylvania) women especially are on the short side ;). Of course there are always exceptions, but they are, by and large, exceptions rather than the rule.
Laurie
It is interesting here in the San Francisco bay area, we have a large number of Asian people and one learns quickly to recognize someone from South East China (moderate skin tone and short) and Northern China (pale ivory skin and women who are 5'10" aren't uncommon. It is true that petite daz characters are as rare as petite models... my sister used to live in two separate neighborhoods where Naomi Campbell and Cindy Crawford lived and, yep, they seem like amazons.