Well, my big reason for doing the above is that, if I remember right, skin builder tends to make a unique diffuse map per surface, which is a little excessive.
That is the same trouble I had with LIE Baker. It created so many unique texture maps that I couldn't load the model in my GPU for Iray rendering after baking. Many of the textures with unique names were really identical.
OK,after having another look, by manual shader are you referring to the files inside of the folders labelled Brightness, Dark Skins, Glossiness & Pores? I do have those. I think I was expecting a Manual preset which makes no sense if it doesn't know what material set it's working on. Sorry for the one track mind. I think I see how this works now. Thanks for the info.
You're not alone! And that's what I hate about DAZ products. There are no such rules that PA must provide us a descent manual, as if DAZ people assume that we all know everything. I've tried to beg for empathy but fail. They never listen to us. They are too busy. And writing something like this may actually be deleted. Just be on your own. You ask here and sometimes you'll get answer, several times not cuz everyone is on his own, too. (at least I feel that most of people here in this forum are more generous than PAs who never have enough time to answer anything.)
Whoa thats really a very unfair statement the PA's here are some of the most helpful and curtious you can get, they answer questions and help as much as they can. The PA for the N.G.A product has a thread were they have answered questions and addressed any problems people are having.
I apologize for good PA. But to tell the truth, I greatly respect DZ for good product (s), but am quite upset for his incomplete documentation. He gives us a good free script but doesn't bother even tell us what to do with it. I had to trial error for a while and didn't feel like having professional deal at all.
OK,after having another look, by manual shader are you referring to the files inside of the folders labelled Brightness, Dark Skins, Glossiness & Pores? I do have those. I think I was expecting a Manual preset which makes no sense if it doesn't know what material set it's working on. Sorry for the one track mind. I think I see how this works now. Thanks for the info.
You're not alone! And that's what I hate about DAZ products. There are no such rules that PA must provide us a descent manual, as if DAZ people assume that we all know everything. I've tried to beg for empathy but fail. They never listen to us. They are too busy. And writing something like this may actually be deleted. Just be on your own. You ask here and sometimes you'll get answer, several times not cuz everyone is on his own, too. (at least I feel that most of people here in this forum are more generous than PAs who never have enough time to answer anything.)
You just hit that nail on the head!
I think to myself, as a professional in a way, whether it's easier for people who support customers if every PAs are forced to make descent documentation. The wordload should be diminished hugely. But they choose to do it hard way. I had to talk to the support team so many times to get just an easy answer. That's what we have to accept as a loyal customer. DAZ will be reaching more customers with good documentation but they choose to leave it to some expensive tutorials made by lazy tutors. I don't want to complain or make any hate speech. Just say so when seeing someone facing the same fate.
kk: Well, that's the sort of thing that makes for a doable Iray vs. cpu bail. ;)
...which is why I made the comment as I don't bother with GPU rendering since the card I have is insufficient memory wise to do anything meaningful and based on a test I did, slightly slower than CPU mode on my system. I also make use of the LIE and IE for other skin details like freckles, blushes, and blemishes and like to bake those into my material presets for specific characters so I don't have to recreate them every time.
It's also part of the reason why, if I ever get to build a new system, I am approaching it from a CPU/physical memory basis as I probably will never be able to afford a 24 GB Quadro P6000 (let alone one with 32 GB of HBM 2 memory whenever that gets released).
...and frankly, I really don't like messing around with individual content component files or the materials/textures folders outside the programme. Too easy to louse things up by accident and wind up with that "cannot find..." error when loading a texture, shader, or even item.
There is also a reason I have not been posting any work on the Iray Renders thread for quite some time now as I really am becoming less impressed with the results I am getting in spite of all the tricks and tips I learned from various discussions. To tell the truth, I think my railway station scene looks more "believable" without the characters in it but that is not why I got into this or use Daz, as it is still primarily a character morphing/posing programme.
Well, it matters to me with my 'amazing' 3.5 gb limit. And being judicious has kept just about everything I'm doing under the limit. (The biggest problem are some of the wild architectural stuff, where every single wall apparently needs a unique texture mutter)
As an aside, one of the weird but brilliant things about NGS Anagenessis is that all skins end up using only three maps (diffuse face/torso/limb) + Micro texture.
If you can tweak that into a usable skin (and at least 1/3 of the time I find right out of the box works fine), that's a considerable savings while having a very high quality character.
...the issue for me is being able to create different skins for G3 without having to purchase a bunch of different character sets. Angenesis/Angenesis2 looks like they add extra detail to existing skins but are not a total "skin builder" utility per se (like Zev0'sand DraagonStorm's) which is what I need at this juncture.
As SBP3 will also be optimised for Iray (the previous version wasn't since it was released prior to Iray's introduction) it will be interesting to see its capabilities.
You know what agravates me, not really a NGS Anagensis problem except it is part of the reason why all the shader products are created...
I have a South Beach Deco Room loaded and it has 4 light fixtures and a big window. OK, so I have the time set to 20:30 and the nighttime NYC skyline outside the window and it is set to Sun & Sky iRay so not much amibient light coming through that big window...
I changed the Emissive Light on those 4 light fixtures to white and the unit measurements to Watts. I set the luminance to 100,000 Watts and the ISO to 200 and that scene still looks like it is an indoor daytime scene after 5 hours (if you ignore the lit skyline of NYC outside the windows) with no lights turned on but just ambient light from outside. I suppose it's 400 ISO or higher then but you'd think that 4 100,000 W bulbs would be enough.
Why can't I simply tell those 4 light blubs fixtures they are 100 W lights? 100K Watts? It don't make sense. I tested my iPhone 6 in my living room with just 1 60 W living room LED light and the TV on and no flash and no problem taking a picture.
Why hasn't DAZ Studio got point and shoot adjustments to their camera settings in the rendering tab? Can the camera not check the location of the active emissive lights and their settings to set autoshoot settings?
You know what agravates me, not really a NGS Anagensis problem except it is part of the reason why all the shader products are created...
I have a South Beach Deco Room loaded and it has 4 light fixtures and a big window. OK, so I have the time set to 20:30 and the nighttime NYC skyline outside the window and it is set to Sun & Sky iRay so not much amibient light coming through that big window...
I changed the Emissive Light on those 4 light fixtures to white and the unit measurements to Watts. I set the luminance to 100,000 Watts and the ISO to 200 and that scene still looks like it is an indoor daytime scene after 5 hours (if you ignore the lit skyline of NYC outside the windows) with no lights turned on but just ambient light from outside. I suppose it's 400 ISO or higher then but you'd think that 4 100,000 W bulbs would be enough.
Why can't I simply tell those 4 light blubs fixtures they are 100 W lights? 100K Watts? It don't make sense. I tested my iPhone 6 in my living room with just 1 60 W living room LED light and the TV on and no flash and no problem taking a picture.
Why hasn't DAZ Studio got point and shoot adjustments to their camera settings in the rendering tab? Can the camera not check the location of the active emissive lights and their settings to set autoshoot settings?
Set your light to 100W. Click on the +/- icon besides the Iray icon on the viewport and then click on your scene. You will just have to drop the environment intensity to 0.1 or so to keep it dark and adjust the tone mapping a bit if its to bright. Mine is set to EV 6, Shutter 1. 100W, 45W efficiency on the three lights.
Your 60W LED light and your TV emit a staggering number of photons, meaning that even after several bounces tog et into the shadier spots there ar still enough to give an even rsult; Iray can't get close to that and so at low light levels, or with sahdy areas, tends to produce grainy renders. We need far more parallel processors than the mightiest Pascal card can offer before we can expect to match the smoothness of the real world.
"I do pity poor Zev0, he will have just finished updating all his products to Genesis 3 by the time Genesis 4 rolls out, and it will be time to start over again!"
Tell me about it lol. Haven't managed to finish certain ones in time yet. Hopefully when G4 comes out it will be able to use G3 UV's without geografts so I won't have to do this b@st@rd SkinBuilder product again lol. It just takes up so much production time and steals time away from other products that never get to see daylight.
You know what agravates me, not really a NGS Anagensis problem except it is part of the reason why all the shader products are created...
I have a South Beach Deco Room loaded and it has 4 light fixtures and a big window. OK, so I have the time set to 20:30 and the nighttime NYC skyline outside the window and it is set to Sun & Sky iRay so not much amibient light coming through that big window...
I changed the Emissive Light on those 4 light fixtures to white and the unit measurements to Watts. I set the luminance to 100,000 Watts and the ISO to 200 and that scene still looks like it is an indoor daytime scene after 5 hours (if you ignore the lit skyline of NYC outside the windows) with no lights turned on but just ambient light from outside. I suppose it's 400 ISO or higher then but you'd think that 4 100,000 W bulbs would be enough.
Why can't I simply tell those 4 light blubs fixtures they are 100 W lights? 100K Watts? It don't make sense. I tested my iPhone 6 in my living room with just 1 60 W living room LED light and the TV on and no flash and no problem taking a picture.
Why hasn't DAZ Studio got point and shoot adjustments to their camera settings in the rendering tab? Can the camera not check the location of the active emissive lights and their settings to set autoshoot settings?
Set your light to 100W. Click on the +/- icon besides the Iray icon on the viewport and then click on your scene. You will just have to drop the environment intensity to 0.1 or so to keep it dark and adjust the tone mapping a bit if its to bright. Mine is set to EV 6, Shutter 1. 100W, 45W efficiency on the three lights.
Wow, that's how it should look! I will give it a try.
Your 60W LED light and your TV emit a staggering number of photons, meaning that even after several bounces tog et into the shadier spots there ar still enough to give an even rsult; Iray can't get close to that and so at low light levels, or with sahdy areas, tends to produce grainy renders. We need far more parallel processors than the mightiest Pascal card can offer before we can expect to match the smoothness of the real world.
I understand the render time because they have to calculate all the photon bounces and that they ain't doing near the number of calculations as the real world number of photon but it seems that they could make setting up of the scenes with artificial lights and the camera/renders setting act like a point and shoot camera to automagically set up the tone mapping values mostly.
Well, my big reason for doing the above is that, if I remember right, skin builder tends to make a unique diffuse map per surface, which is a little excessive.
That is the same trouble I had with LIE Baker. It created so many unique texture maps that I couldn't load the model in my GPU for Iray rendering after baking. Many of the textures with unique names were really identical.
While I like Skin Builder, the choice to make every material a separate LIE made things very slow for 3Delight. Under IRAY, it was not only slow, but a huge waste of precious video card memory.
My script will automate the copying of the results of the LIE settings to a directory of your choosing and update all the appropriate diffuse maps so that only one image is used for each of the three primary skin texture groups; Torso, Face and Limbs.
It was written and released prior to IRAY and I've only used it for Skin Builder. It may not work well for a model if you have already converted the shader to Iray Uber Shader. If there's enough interest, I can look at updating it.
My experience is that it works better on some skins than others, by defaults it makes skins redder and you need to experiment with settings (start with glossy color first, adjust from blue down to green, experiment, rinse, repeat, etc) sometimes if it goes too far. But it's become my normal starting point now, even with tweaking the colors a tad it's still fast and easy to get good results. Eyes and teeth do really well with it, by the way, which not enough people mention.
Here is a comparison I posted in the Anagenesis II thread over in the Commercial Products forum. This was my first quick test with a character I was developing for Genesis 2 a while back. The first image is the Anagenesis II render, the second is my original Iray shader set up (the skin is a merchant resource skin from Rendo for V4 that I converted to G2F). As you can see, Anagenesis II brings out a lot more detail and life to the skin. It's interesting that some of the things that Dimension-Z did with the shader setup are what people in some of the Iray skin discussions have said not to do (which I always doubted, because that is exactly what I would do in Octane).
N.G.S. Anagenessis II Revolution Render
Original Iray shaders render
Thanks, That test more than most shows an actually difference, in that one has that PVC model-like skin while the second has a more realistic skin texture.
Still if someone thinks ANGenesis is a one click solution, they are sadly mistaken. You still have to work to achieve optimum results, but it can put you in the ballpark without a bunch of trial and error that you'd probably have to do otherwise. It's a tool, and eventually I'm going to get around to really monkeying around with it (the way I need to do with a lot of the programs I've purchased).
Comments
...for my workflow purposes, it seems like more bother to save a bit of load time.
That is the same trouble I had with LIE Baker. It created so many unique texture maps that I couldn't load the model in my GPU for Iray rendering after baking. Many of the textures with unique names were really identical.
I apologize for good PA. But to tell the truth, I greatly respect DZ for good product (s), but am quite upset for his incomplete documentation. He gives us a good free script but doesn't bother even tell us what to do with it. I had to trial error for a while and didn't feel like having professional deal at all.
kk: Well, that's the sort of thing that makes for a doable Iray vs. cpu bail. ;)
I think to myself, as a professional in a way, whether it's easier for people who support customers if every PAs are forced to make descent documentation. The wordload should be diminished hugely. But they choose to do it hard way. I had to talk to the support team so many times to get just an easy answer. That's what we have to accept as a loyal customer. DAZ will be reaching more customers with good documentation but they choose to leave it to some expensive tutorials made by lazy tutors. I don't want to complain or make any hate speech. Just say so when seeing someone facing the same fate.
...which is why I made the comment as I don't bother with GPU rendering since the card I have is insufficient memory wise to do anything meaningful and based on a test I did, slightly slower than CPU mode on my system. I also make use of the LIE and IE for other skin details like freckles, blushes, and blemishes and like to bake those into my material presets for specific characters so I don't have to recreate them every time.
It's also part of the reason why, if I ever get to build a new system, I am approaching it from a CPU/physical memory basis as I probably will never be able to afford a 24 GB Quadro P6000 (let alone one with 32 GB of HBM 2 memory whenever that gets released).
...and frankly, I really don't like messing around with individual content component files or the materials/textures folders outside the programme. Too easy to louse things up by accident and wind up with that "cannot find..." error when loading a texture, shader, or even item.
There is also a reason I have not been posting any work on the Iray Renders thread for quite some time now as I really am becoming less impressed with the results I am getting in spite of all the tricks and tips I learned from various discussions. To tell the truth, I think my railway station scene looks more "believable" without the characters in it but that is not why I got into this or use Daz, as it is still primarily a character morphing/posing programme.
Well, it matters to me with my 'amazing' 3.5 gb limit. And being judicious has kept just about everything I'm doing under the limit. (The biggest problem are some of the wild architectural stuff, where every single wall apparently needs a unique texture mutter)
As an aside, one of the weird but brilliant things about NGS Anagenessis is that all skins end up using only three maps (diffuse face/torso/limb) + Micro texture.
If you can tweak that into a usable skin (and at least 1/3 of the time I find right out of the box works fine), that's a considerable savings while having a very high quality character.
...the issue for me is being able to create different skins for G3 without having to purchase a bunch of different character sets. Angenesis/Angenesis2 looks like they add extra detail to existing skins but are not a total "skin builder" utility per se (like Zev0'sand DraagonStorm's) which is what I need at this juncture.
As SBP3 will also be optimised for Iray (the previous version wasn't since it was released prior to Iray's introduction) it will be interesting to see its capabilities.
You know what agravates me, not really a NGS Anagensis problem except it is part of the reason why all the shader products are created...
I have a South Beach Deco Room loaded and it has 4 light fixtures and a big window. OK, so I have the time set to 20:30 and the nighttime NYC skyline outside the window and it is set to Sun & Sky iRay so not much amibient light coming through that big window...
I changed the Emissive Light on those 4 light fixtures to white and the unit measurements to Watts. I set the luminance to 100,000 Watts and the ISO to 200 and that scene still looks like it is an indoor daytime scene after 5 hours (if you ignore the lit skyline of NYC outside the windows) with no lights turned on but just ambient light from outside. I suppose it's 400 ISO or higher then but you'd think that 4 100,000 W bulbs would be enough.
Why can't I simply tell those 4 light blubs fixtures they are 100 W lights? 100K Watts? It don't make sense. I tested my iPhone 6 in my living room with just 1 60 W living room LED light and the TV on and no flash and no problem taking a picture.
Why hasn't DAZ Studio got point and shoot adjustments to their camera settings in the rendering tab? Can the camera not check the location of the active emissive lights and their settings to set autoshoot settings?
Set your light to 100W. Click on the +/- icon besides the Iray icon on the viewport and then click on your scene. You will just have to drop the environment intensity to 0.1 or so to keep it dark and adjust the tone mapping a bit if its to bright. Mine is set to EV 6, Shutter 1. 100W, 45W efficiency on the three lights.
Your 60W LED light and your TV emit a staggering number of photons, meaning that even after several bounces tog et into the shadier spots there ar still enough to give an even rsult; Iray can't get close to that and so at low light levels, or with sahdy areas, tends to produce grainy renders. We need far more parallel processors than the mightiest Pascal card can offer before we can expect to match the smoothness of the real world.
"I do pity poor Zev0, he will have just finished updating all his products to Genesis 3 by the time Genesis 4 rolls out, and it will be time to start over again!"
Tell me about it lol. Haven't managed to finish certain ones in time yet. Hopefully when G4 comes out it will be able to use G3 UV's without geografts so I won't have to do this b@st@rd SkinBuilder product again lol. It just takes up so much production time and steals time away from other products that never get to see daylight.
Wow, that's how it should look! I will give it a try.
I understand the render time because they have to calculate all the photon bounces and that they ain't doing near the number of calculations as the real world number of photon but it seems that they could make setting up of the scenes with artificial lights and the camera/renders setting act like a point and shoot camera to automagically set up the tone mapping values mostly.
That's exactly why I made my LIE Realizer script.
While I like Skin Builder, the choice to make every material a separate LIE made things very slow for 3Delight. Under IRAY, it was not only slow, but a huge waste of precious video card memory.
My script will automate the copying of the results of the LIE settings to a directory of your choosing and update all the appropriate diffuse maps so that only one image is used for each of the three primary skin texture groups; Torso, Face and Limbs.
It was written and released prior to IRAY and I've only used it for Skin Builder. It may not work well for a model if you have already converted the shader to Iray Uber Shader. If there's enough interest, I can look at updating it.
Thanks for the script, yoink!
Below is an iray render of Beth for Genesis 2 Female by Second Circle ...
... and after applying 1-click of N.G.S. Anagenessis 2 ...
My experience is that it works better on some skins than others, by defaults it makes skins redder and you need to experiment with settings (start with glossy color first, adjust from blue down to green, experiment, rinse, repeat, etc) sometimes if it goes too far. But it's become my normal starting point now, even with tweaking the colors a tad it's still fast and easy to get good results. Eyes and teeth do really well with it, by the way, which not enough people mention.
Definately not a one click sol
Thanks, That test more than most shows an actually difference, in that one has that PVC model-like skin while the second has a more realistic skin texture.
Still if someone thinks ANGenesis is a one click solution, they are sadly mistaken. You still have to work to achieve optimum results, but it can put you in the ballpark without a bunch of trial and error that you'd probably have to do otherwise. It's a tool, and eventually I'm going to get around to really monkeying around with it (the way I need to do with a lot of the programs I've purchased).
-- never enough time in the day.