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absolutley. Genesis started as a native DAZStudio only figure. It was the boot of a new figure. Then DAZ decided to make a character set for it, that they called Victoria5, in order to go on with their successful character series. What is so difficult and confusing about that?
The terminology is going to be confusing for newbies no matter what, because they're still going to have to navigate the store and wonder why certain products won't work with the latest shiny toy right out of the box. This is why the forums here and elsewhere are so important, because this is a place where the answers and knowledgable people can be found. DAZ did create a table showing compatiblity of figures and organizing them according to 'generations' but I have no idea where that is on the site now. Shame, really, as it was useful.
When I was a newbie to DAZ back in 2013, I was thoroughly confused as to what the difference was between base figures, standalone characters, and that whole Genesis 1 vs 2 thing. Could I use Genesis 1 clothes on Genesis 2 figures? Why were the Genesis 2 base characters all have "6" as the suffix? Was Troll for Genesis the same as the Troll standalone figure? Why don't characters have numbers the way base figures do? Can I use V4 characters on Genesis 1 base?
Through the help of some more experienced artists who were kind and patient with me, I learned about the terminology and the nutshell history of Poser and DAZ' products. This helped me become comfortable with the software and also helped me choose what products I wanted to buy. To be totally honest, terminology is a big part of any technology-based hobby and it does take time to learn enough to navigate through it. Newbies shouldn't be discouraged by it.
Honestly I think there's only been 1 version of Genesis (Genesis 1). Genesis 2 and Genesis 3 are just Victoria/Michael 6 and 7. What made Genesis Genesis is it was a unimesh where male and female figures could be mixed together and the age and body type of the figure could be mixed together. It was essentially combining Michael, Victoria, and The Kids all together.
Genesis 2 and 3 go back to the separate figures approach. In my opinion it was a marketing mistake to give them the Genesis name. They should have gone back to Victoria and Michael which is what they are.
or retire genesis. call it ummm exodus would be silly?
I understood the difference between Genesis and Genesis 2 pretty much straight away when I first started as it was obvious they were a sequence (there was no Genesis 3 then), but believe it or not, I didn't immediately realise that M4 and V4 were older than either of them. Once I did, it made perfect sense to me that they were part of a previous sequence, with M5 and V5 coming next and followed by M6 and V6 and with the Genesis and Genesis 2 sequence following straight after. My cynical self sometimes thinks that the expensive learning curve which taught me different is why Daz don't rush to make the situation clearer :) As for 'generation this, that and the other', I have no clue what people are on about half the time when these get a mention, but somebody usually translates for me without even trying by the end of the thread just by referring to them using the names that I'd use myself and so I'm not really sure that the generation tag is even necessary. I'd keep going with the Genesis sequence as it is - I can just imagine new users pitching up on the forum and complaining that they can't find Genesis 4, 5, 6, and 7 the minute the thread started by the last baffled newcomer drops off the bottom of the page :)
They aren't Victoria and Michael. Those are separate, different figures for Genesis 2 /3.
I'm really not going to like calling the new generation of figures Genesis 8, if that is what DAZ3D calls them, so you may see me reference them as what they are; Generation 8. I may also call them Genesis 4, which is also what they are, since they are the fourth iteration of the Genesis figure line.
/sigh now you found this old thread created in November 2016.
edited:
How many new users might buy Victoria 4 and Michael 4 figures assuming that they match Genesis 4?
- - -
Some other thoughts:
- A page with an actual time line overview of all figures released so far might help to lower any confusion.
- Ask 100 people on the street that have no clue about licensed 3d content what they think about naming product generations and their addons.
- - -
I felt DAZ should have droppedthe Victoria and Michael names with the first Genesis. Those names create more confussion than anything else they have done. I can't count the number of times at another popular 3D/CGI forum I had to point out that Victoria and Michael are not and have not been the base figures for the Genesis lines.
3 or so years ago when I got started the HELP page or a very prominent link on the help page had the visual chart for VERSIONs and Numbers. It made things completely easy to understand what was compatible with what natively. They should have that again for any new folks.
I think the next generation of DAZ figures should be called Genesis Vista.
What?
Sounds like a good idea - removing unnecessary complexity, even by just adjusting the naming scheme, is a good thing to keep the mind on things that count. If it means you don't have to spend your time anymore to explain that Victoria 7 is Genesis 3 and can use it for something more meaningful instead, that's a big win in my book.
But if they had done that, DAZ wouldn't have been able to continue running ads promoting "Victoria" as the world's most popular cg figure with an image of V5. Because, as much as I loved the original Genesis, it's pretty clear that it hadn't eclipsed V4 by end of it's short lifespan. Being able to use that name and tagline was a very powerful thing, PR wise, so I totally understand the reasoning behind the decision to keep the Victoria, Michael and Aiko names alive as they're the three strongest brands in this industry..
And just to make things more convoluted, there are multiple series of G2s and even some G3s, as there's still content being sold out there for Smith Micro's Jessie 2, Mikki 2 and friends. And while it's certainly not a fair comparison, it's obvious that SM's decision to start playing the all-new figure name of the year game hasn't done much to help make those figures more sucessful. .
The Poser figures were called G2 long before V4 and M4 or Genesis, in all fairness ;). It was more of an unfortunate accident of dueling acronyms than anything.
Laurie
Why drop the names Victoria and Michael? They are characters for the base models just like any other character for the base models. If someone is confused about Victoria and Michael, then the rest must blow their minds.
Well if folks want to drop the Victoria and Michael and other names from the figures then just may as well go the plain name route like this.. And can replace the 4 with an 8 if you want to..
Genesis 4 Female Genesis 4 Ethnic Female
Genesis 4 Male Genesis 4 Ethnic Male
Genesis 4 Female Teen Genesis 4 Fantasy Female
Genesis 4 Male Teen Genesis 4 Fantasy Male
Genesis 4 Female Toon
Genesis 4 Male Toon
As you can see talk about being bland, nopw giving each base figure a proper name makes them sound more enticing and make them out to be like an actual person.. Also Victoria and Michael have been apart of Daz since 1999 when Daz was then known as Zygote..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_(3D_figure)
Well, you could always just drop the "Genesis" and make Victoria 8 and Michael 8 the baseline characters. I realize there are some other traditional reasons you might not want to, since historically, Victoria has usually been the super model.
I do agree that discussions of "generation 4" compared to "Genesis 4" could get really confusing. When I first started buying Daz models, I got several generation 3 items because I thought they were for Genesis 3. I puzzled for a while as to why they packaging looked so different and why they were rendered less realistic. Since there is no absolute price differential, it's hard to tell sometimes what is the up to date item. Many of the older models, textures, and props, still look really good in render.
I'm pretty sure that Centaur 7 is not the 7th centaur Daz has released, either. Just sayin'. And Nvidia happily skips numbers all the time, like there is no GTX 800 series.
Something needs to be done, because this is really getting out of hand. GenX is also madly confusing with its different addon names.
Here's my idea: Don't call it Genesis at all! Give the lineup a whole new name and identity. This would work better if the new model is a real upgrade over Genesis 3 and not just a sad incremental update. A new name would strike that point home that this is a big update.
You might not understand what I meant. They could have given the female and male Genesis 2 and 3 figures a name instead of Genesis, while keeping the Victoria and Michael naming designations. Genesis could have stayed just Genesis.
Calling Genesis 3 a "sad incremental update" over Genesis 2 is a disservice to it.
Well, that's how I see it. I really don't care for Genesis 3 at all. Nor do I see the purpose behind releasing a new base model every 2 years like the Genesis line has so far. And no, I don't see what's so special about Genesis 3 other than its amazing ability to suck up my VRAM. There have been great products released, but most of this is simply PA's being creative, learning Iray better, and delivering higher quality content as the Daz market matures. Things that could have been done with previous generation models if they were still the primary figure.
At any rate, instead of calling the next figure Genesis 4, how about Evolution 8. That gets all the numbers in line with the generation 8 theme that V8 and friends would bring. It sounds cool and works properly as a successor to "Genesis". The "Genesis" name invokes creation, and now that creation has evolved. Cliched, yes, but it works. "Genesis has evolved! Get ready for Evolution 8!" The taglines just write themselves, people.
Ora...since there are 8 arcs to JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, and this is the 8th generation model, it would make perfect sense to name the model after a JoJo reference.
I like Evolution 8 as E8 removes any ambiguity that Gen3 G3 G2 Gen2 G Gen and so on have.
Looks like the proponents of gen8 called it. I just got the banner. :)
Indeed they did. They just pushed an update to Studio, included Gen 8F in the mix and rolled out Vicky 8. This should prove to be interesting.
It does. It keeps Centuar in line, organizationally, with the rest of their 7th line of characters.
Except, Genesis isn't really a character. It is their 8th line of characters, but not the 8th Genesis. People complained about explaining it before. Now those people can have fun explaining where Genesis 4, 5, 6 and 7 are. The problem lies in calling it Genesis. Genesis was the first non-character base model. This one is now the 4th. Once they split the base to separate male and female models, it kind of went against the idea of calling it Genisis.
Well, Genesis 8 is out. Should make you a little happier, now. ;)