BIG ERROR on Deltas Morphs++ in DS4.5

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Comments

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited November 2012

    I can't see why you are having the problems you are - your paths all appear correct. I do wonder if the DFOrm set is confusing the issue - if you apply that to a new character, just a quick one with a couple of morphs and the DForms, do you get a problem with a saved scene as you do with your custom character?

    So, I have created a new custum character the same way I created Dixie DS4.5 version but with the custom morphs injected and for some ever reason the Dixie DS4.5 version works. Richard, I must say that I am a bit confused now. The whole day I was trying that and allways get errors and now it works and I don`t really know why.

    There are three possible reasons:

    1. I use not the original V4 but the wwg2 Figure that is based on V4 and after loaded the wwg2 I have to inject v4base morphs,morphs++ and elite morphs (but that I made also for the DS4.5 Version of Dixie and the DS4.5 Test Character written above)
    And in DS3 that never was a problem.

    2. These two characters were both created in DS4.5 but the former Dixie Versions were created in DS3 imported to DS4.5 aaand the wwg2 Figure for these DS3 Versions of Dixie are at another folder than the wwg2 figure I have used for the new DS4.5 Dixie and the DS4.5 Test Character and also for the new characters i wanted to create. Now I have the WWG2 Figure in the folder where the Victoria 4 CR2 file is.

    C:\Users\myName\Documents\DAZ 3D\Studio3\content\Runtime\libraries\Character\DAZ People

    but the thing is. before I have created this new ds4.5 versions of dixie and the test character by using the wwg2 from that folder above, I have used the wwg2 figure for the new characters I wanted to create from that folder I have used earlier in DS3 for the DS3 Dixie which is another folder. but that also can`t be the problem because I never had such problems in DS3 by doing it this way.

    Maybe it is a problem using a imported Figure from DS3 and a Figure created in DS4.5

    I don`t know.

    what I do not understand is.:

    creating a Character in DS4.5 and save it as scene than clearing the scene and loading an older file of an older Character and that looses morphs during loading because files can`t be found is a bit I don`t know.

    The path for the morphs++ is allways the same. And I think that the informations where to find these morphs++ are saved in the scene, so if I load a scene there should be no problem because the scene has the information where to find what, for example morphs++, and if the path of the morphs++ is allways the same there can`t be no problem no matter what scene I load, that is what I do not understand.

    Post edited by cosmo71 on
  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited December 1969

    Ameesa said:
    I'm not sure if my problem is related to yours, but do you use power loader when making a new scene with V4? I'm not sure what happened with mine, but I tried reinstalling my characters in 3 different locations trying to find the problem. I installed it to the default, to my original runtime for characters and to an entirely new runtime to test it out. It kept asking me to find the deltas. It turns out, my problem is something in the power loader. My work around is loading V4 with no morphs in the PL and then injecting them like you would using Poser. Then inject the character you want to use. I don't make custom characters, so not sure if it would work for yours. My other option, is try making a "fully loaded" V4 and saving her as a scene. I do admit to having limited success with using that option though.

    I do it that way because I use not the original v4.2 but the wwg2 and to that you have to inject the v4 base morphs, morphs++ and elite like you have to do in poser and in ds3 I never had problems like I had the last days.

    and for what ever reason that I do not understand...it works now...and I don`t know why

    (read my post above)

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    Why are you saving the characters in 4.5 as scenes and not Character Presets?

    I'm thinking that something is confusing DS where to look for the /data for the scene.

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited November 2012

    mjc1016 said:
    Why are you saving the characters in 4.5 as scenes and not Character Presets?

    I'm thinking that something is confusing DS where to look for the /data for the scene.

    No, I think I have found the reason for the error :)

    The thing is that some custum character morphs for body and face (also some elite characters) delete some deltas if injected therefore you can`t change the value of this character base.

    If you don`t inject morphs++ new to this character these deltas seems to be gone for all other characters (cache issue).

    That sound possible because if you load another scene with a character in it that worked before and you get told that some deltas are missing and you inject the morphs++ new to this loaded character, the character will look and work good as allways and if you save this character new it will have all morphs the next time until you load the other scene with the custom morphs (if you haven`t inject morphs++ new to it before saving)

    I came up to this because I have created a new v4 character by using mary elite and have just injected the head morph. After that I wasn`t able to change some of the shaping morphs for the head. They had values but I can`t changed them. I injected morphs++ new to this character and...result, I was able to change the values. I saved this character as scene and load a Dixie Character scene and it worked well.

    but I will do some more tests

    Post edited by cosmo71 on
  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited November 2012

    update...it just worked only one time

    I load a dixie scene and merged the new character in it, all works fine

    I close the scene without saving

    I load just the same dixien scene as above and....deltas are missing and I had to reinject v4 base morphs, morphs++ and elite then dixie looks as allways and all was good.

    I close the scene without saving (for a test)

    I load the same scene and...everything is fine, all deltas and morphs were found.

    don`t ask me what that can be I have no clue and I have no more fun. So far it works with reinjecting morphs after using another custom character I can live with it.

    that was it...no more tests

    Post edited by cosmo71 on
  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited December 1969

    maybe I should kick ds4 and go back to ds3, with ds3 I never had such problems on files and databases

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited December 1969

    second thing I don`t like is:

    I have shirt for v4 and added a d-former to the chest for example. I fit the shirt to v4 and fix some things with the d-former. everything is okay, but then for some reason I have to zero the shirt and...result...the d-former doesn`t work anymore. it is there and you can scale and rotate it but nothing happens

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 50,065
    edited December 1969

    There should be DForm sliders on the shirt, which control how strongly it is affected - they are probably set to zero too, causing the DForms to have no effect.

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited December 1969

    There should be DForm sliders on the shirt, which control how strongly it is affected - they are probably set to zero too, causing the DForms to have no effect.

    ahhhh quite simple...sometimes I am a bit stupid :red:

    the thing with the file issue:

    for me it is like:

    writing some text with word, save the text, load it new and all I have written is there. then I write a new text with another font, save it and load it new and everything is okay. then I load the first text and some words are missing. I add the missing words without saving the text new, just load it new and everything is fine. then I load the second text and now in this text some words are missing.

    any Idea?

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited December 1969

    Update:

    I have written that I have created a complete new Dixie in DS4.5 and it worked.

    Okay I had the same problems after loading another character but when loading the DS4.5 version of Dixie and injecting victoria 4 base morphs, morphs++ and elite morphs new the character becomes Dixie as we know her.

    So far so good until now.

    I have turned off my PC and have done some other stuff.

    Now after a new start I opened ds4.5 and load another v4 character I am working on (no custom morphs or what ever just v4.2 with morphs++) I saved this and opened the ds4.5 version of Dixie that worked at least. And surprise, no deltas and I had to reinject all the morphs new as allways but now the result is that the body looks like Dixie but not the head. I started ds4.5 new, loaded the ds4.5 version of Dixie and no error but only the body looks exactly like Dixie but not the head. I injected the all the morphs new and injected a saved character file I have used to create the DS4.5 version of Dixie (thought some values were missed) nothing. The head didn`t look like DIxie.
    I closed the scene without saving and loaded the imported version of Dixie, had to reinject the morphs. result: the head looks like Dixie but not the body. I closed DS4.5 and started it new, loaded the imported Dixie file and...surprise Dixie as we all know her.

    DAZ I think there is something on your data-management that goes really wrong

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 50,065
    edited December 1969

    I think at this point you need to zip up your scene files and the custom morphs, along with a list of the third-party products used and attach them t a bug report. Make it private so your files aren't accessible to anyone visiting the bug tracker.

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited November 2012

    I think at this point you need to zip up your scene files and the custom morphs, along with a list of the third-party products used and attach them t a bug report. Make it private so your files aren't accessible to anyone visiting the bug tracker.

    here is a screenshoot that shows the path daz said it can`t find it and the where the file is that can`t be found, have a look at the pathes and tell me where the difference is?

    the only difference that I see are the / and \

    and

    what is written before /Runtime/libraries...

    Big_error_1002.jpg
    1680 x 1050 - 461K
    Post edited by cosmo71 on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 50,065
    edited December 1969

    Yes, your paths look right - and must be right or the morphs would never inject.

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited December 1969

    Yes, your paths look right - and must be right or the morphs would never inject.

    Hi there,

    today I have done some tests with ds 3.1.xx (last free version 32bit). Have done the same like I have written in the pm.

    2 characters based on wwg2 with "hand-injected" morphs one of them with an bought character and two characters based directly on v4.2 morphs injected via the dialog-window with the check-boxes one also with a bought character. each character has base,morphs++ and elite injected, saved each character as scene and loaded each of the senes new and the result was that each character works fine and no matter what scene I load all morphs were found, not like in ds4.5.

    so for me it is clear that the problem I have with ds4.5 must be a data-managemt problem by ds4.5 or there is a difference between injecting the morphs "by hand" or automatically via the dialog window. I do not think that it is a problem of the wwg2 figure.

    the thing is, if you look at the sceenshoot above, the pathes seems to be the same but...what stands before /Runtime/libraries in the ds4.5 window? is ds4.5 looking at the right content?

    does ds4.5 some changes on pathes if injecting morphs? by the way, the error accours also when I injecting the morphs to another wwg2 but not save the scene but just close it and load the other scene with the wwg2 so it must happen during injection.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 50,065
    edited December 1969

    Please make a bug report - I agree that soemthing is amiss, but since I don't have WWG (or the debugging tools) I have no idea what.

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited December 1969

    Please make a bug report - I agree that soemthing is amiss, but since I don't have WWG (or the debugging tools) I have no idea what.

    I will in the next days, it took a bit nerves to fix the error again and again so that my "original" dixie works allready for my renders so...I need a break on this.

    best thing would be you at DAZ get yourself a WWG2 and do your own tests :)

    have send you the link via pm so, just a view bugs or a nice email to the artist and you probably get a wwg2 for free for tests :)
    that I think is more helpfull than the logfile. If you haven`t the wwg2 what can you test???

    if you have her you have to inject v4.2 base morphs, morphs++ and elite by hand :) just three double clicks but that you know for sure :)

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited December 1969

    the error accours also if:

    having the scene with my working "original dixie" scene open and close the scene

    if then loading "the test dixie" scene the error accours and no deltas were found as expected.
    If I close this scene without reinjecting the morphs and without saving this scene and loading the "original dixie" again the error accours also on this "original dixie" that worked before.

    example:

    If I have A and add B I have AB - then I save AB as file named "file AB"

    then I have A and add C then I have AC and I save it as file "file AC"

    if now loading file "file AB" again I get not AB i just get A and close the file

    if now loading file "file AC" I get not AC I get just A

    if I now add a C to it I allready have AC and save it as file "file AC" and now it will works and I allways will get AC when loading this file until I load "file AB" then both are no longer working if loaded.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 50,065
    edited December 1969

    cosmo71 said:
    Please make a bug report - I agree that soemthing is amiss, but since I don't have WWG (or the debugging tools) I have no idea what.

    I will in the next days, it took a bit nerves to fix the error again and again so that my "original" dixie works allready for my renders so...I need a break on this.

    best thing would be you at DAZ get yourself a WWG2 and do your own tests :)

    have send you the link via pm so, just a view bugs or a nice email to the artist and you probably get a wwg2 for free for tests :)
    that I think is more helpfull than the logfile. If you haven`t the wwg2 what can you test???

    if you have her you have to inject v4.2 base morphs, morphs++ and elite by hand :) just three double clicks but that you know for sure :)

    I'm not a developer, that's why I keep saying make a bug report as I can't actually do anything about investigating and (hopefully) fixing the issue.

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited December 1969

    cosmo71 said:
    Please make a bug report - I agree that soemthing is amiss, but since I don't have WWG (or the debugging tools) I have no idea what.

    I will in the next days, it took a bit nerves to fix the error again and again so that my "original" dixie works allready for my renders so...I need a break on this.

    best thing would be you at DAZ get yourself a WWG2 and do your own tests :)

    have send you the link via pm so, just a view bugs or a nice email to the artist and you probably get a wwg2 for free for tests :)
    that I think is more helpfull than the logfile. If you haven`t the wwg2 what can you test???

    if you have her you have to inject v4.2 base morphs, morphs++ and elite by hand :) just three double clicks but that you know for sure :)

    I'm not a developer, that's why I keep saying make a bug report as I can't actually do anything about investigating and (hopefully) fixing the issue.

    have send a help request to the technical support center with a short history of what is written here, a link to this forum site, a link to the figure I use and a zip-file with two logfiles of the same scene, one working, one not working.

    as I understand the error right now it must happen during saving the scene.

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited December 2012

    So, in ds3 I can load as much characters based on the wwg figure with v4 morphs as I want (made a test with 5) all work fine. each loaded seperatly works fine as well no problem. created one new with injecting v4base,morphs++ and elite and with custom character morphs and saved it as scene.
    loaded the other four again, each seperatly and everything was okay.

    that doesn`t work in ds4.5

    so I hope your technical service team will find out what is wrong.

    the only difference I see in the parameter tab under misc is the following:

    if selecting the whole figure in ds3 there is no geometry switching shown up but if selecting single parts of the body then there is the geometry switching for that body part. selecting hip. geometry switching is: hip.

    in ds4.5 there is a geometry switching shown up for the whole figure and that is maybe the reason because it is allways the same on each created character based on the wwg figure. (haven`t looked what`s shown up there on original 4.2 figures)

    so if I create a new character based on the wwg2 with the v4 morphs for example and save this character as scene, I can load it again and do some changes on values on shape, pose, load or delte probs in the scene, change textures or what ever (but not injecting new morphs) and save it under another name. both charatcers, the first and the new one will work. they work until I create a totally new one or injecting new morphs to one of the existing characters and save it, from that time on only this character works well after new loading the scene, the other two character(s) not until I reinject the morphs to just one of them new, there is no need to save the scene new, just injecting the morphs new, closing the scene and from that time on these two characters work again but the third one don`t.

    I think you programmers have a lot work to do to find that error :)

    Post edited by cosmo71 on
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,468
    edited December 1969

    Folks just for the record I responded to a PM cosmo sent me which I stated that I couldn't help with this, hence why you haven't seen me post much regarding this issue.

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited December 2012

    Szark said:
    Folks just for the record I responded to a PM cosmo sent me which I stated that I couldn't help with this, hence why you haven't seen me post much regarding this issue.

    so far I know from the technical service, my problems seems to be a ds4 problem with the data management and something with the .duf formate.


    all items in the scene have a legacy_shape_number_number geometry switch in ds4.x if selected the complete item/figure/prob
    in DS3 my WWG2/V4.2-Dixie version has this not if selected also not her clothes.

    Just bodyparts of Dixie has a geometry switching in ds3 but not the complete figure. In DS4 the complete figure has a geometry switching but not the bodyparts, maybe that is the problem on this.

    maybe this legacy_shape_xxxxx_xxxxx is somethíng like a copy/data-file or so that is stored somewhere in the datas and if you have different scenes with the same figure like I have with the wwg2 each scene will load the datas from that copy/data-file and only the values are saved in the scene, so if you inject morphs to the figure in one scene for example and save this scene the copy/date-file will be changed and if you then load another scene with this figure as base the scene wants to load a a file that is different in basic issues then at the time you have saved this scene and so youi get the error.

    I came up to this because the correct values are there, in every scene, in a working and in a not working, that is the reason why after injecting the morphs new the figure then will look correct.

    so the basic informations for the scene must be stored not in the scene itself but somewhere else and only the values are saved in the scene.

    that is how I understand the error so far.

    Post edited by cosmo71 on
  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited December 2012

    So, I have enough of this shit and go back to DS3 I don`t need DS4 and next time Smith Micro offers Poser I will buy this

    I don`t work with genesis, I don`t need genesis and if the software do not work with the figures I have and the characters I have created then I kick the software not the figures.

    Post edited by cosmo71 on
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