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Need some 3DL help

RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,352
in The Commons

Problem with getting old is the brain only allows info to stick for just one rendering engine!  lmao

So here's what I need help with.

I have skin and hair I need to convert, environment set up and lighting . Yea, basically the whole shebang.  I figure if I can get ONE scene set up the way I need it with the right skin, eye and hair shaders in place I can work with that for future projects and products. 

Currently I have the following in place:

Hair I used the Uber Hair shader

Skin I used the Uber Surface 2 Base, SSS Skin 02 MAT

Can't find a light set that doesn't give me severity feedback and weird rendering bits. 

I DO have the render engine set to 3Delight before that's brought up!  I'm not THAT dense... well most of the time!  cheeky

Non DAZ stuff in the scene before suggestions for Genesis comes up.....

Thanks kindly

Richard smiley

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Comments

  • glaseyeglaseye Posts: 1,312
    edited October 2016

    Well, depends, I guess, on what your scene is, and how you want your light(s) to be setup, but in general my recommendation would be to use AoA´s http://www.daz3d.com/advanced-daz-studio-light-bundle.

    Not a one click solution, but very useful with SSS settings....

    Post edited by glaseye on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,352

    Thanks. I have two of his lighting products but wanted to re-download them but the store is a mess today.  Not sure what's going on NOW but sheesh.. guess they don't want my money!  lol

  • glaseyeglaseye Posts: 1,312

    I was lucky, my downloads went smoothly earlier today, but after that, well, you said it.......cheeky

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,936
    glaseye said:

    Well, depends, I guess, on what your scene is, and how you want your light(s) to be setup, but in general my recommendation would be to use AoA´s http://www.daz3d.com/advanced-daz-studio-light-bundle.

    Not a one click solution, but very useful with SSS settings....

    ...love the AoA lights, but for some reson the 4.7 update broke flagging for SSS surfaces.  Almost thinking of reinstalling 4.6 and just using the 4.9 beta for Iray.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,352

    Well started the scene over again.  I was trying to "downgrade" from the main iRAY scene but that was giving me black renders when using the AoA lights.  Fingers crossed that I get a nice normal render now that I have the skin mostly set up..... again..............

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 2,995

    Depends on the severity message.  Many times those messages can be ignored as they pertain to displacement/bump settings that are out of precision anyway (too small to be seen).  However, sometimes the severity code is greater and indicates a bigger problem that needs attention.  Without the code/message it will be hard to tell you what the actual problem is.

    Kendall

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,352

    Well just tried to use the AoA lights in the new scene.... still getting a black render so not sure what's going on.  *sigh*

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 2,995

    remove all "lights" and turn on the headlamp.  If you don't see anything, then move the camera about the scene to see "where" you start seeing things.  It could be any of a million things especially if the items aren't setup for DAZ to start with.  For the basic test, insert a primitive cube at the center of the workspace and see if that shows in the headlamp.

    Kendall

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,352

    Here is the last bit of the log file with the severity feedback:

    2016-55-10 14:55:22.576 3Delight message #43 (Severity 0): R2093: object 'shapematerial_3A_Hands_6402_ea3' (displacement 'brickyard/{407f8e5c-3a9b-4708-b5e5-799ff1fe7c1d}/shader_Displacement', surface 'brickyard/{407f8e5c-3a9b-4708-b5e5-799ff1fe7c1d}/shader_Surface') used only 0% of its displacement bound
    3Delight message #43 (Severity 0): R2093: object 'shapematerial_3A_Arms_5666_ea3' (displacement 'brickyard/{407f8e5c-3a9b-4708-b5e5-799ff1fe7c1d}/shader_Displacement', surface 'brickyard/{407f8e5c-3a9b-4708-b5e5-799ff1fe7c1d}/shader_Surface') used only 0% of its displacement bound
    3Delight message #43 (Severity 0): R2093: object 'shapematerial_3A_Collars_6770_ea3' (displacement 'brickyard/{407f8e5c-3a9b-4708-b5e5-799ff1fe7c1d}/shader_Displacement', surface 'brickyard/{407f8e5c-3a9b-4708-b5e5-799ff1fe7c1d}/shader_Surface') used only 0% of its displacement bound
    3Delight message #43 (Severity 0): R2093: object 'shapematerial_3B_Legs_5758_ea3' (displacement 'brickyard/{407f8e5c-3a9b-4708-b5e5-799ff1fe7c1d}/shader_Displacement', surface 'brickyard/{407f8e5c-3a9b-4708-b5e5-799ff1fe7c1d}/shader_Surface') used only 0% of its displacement bound
    3Delight message #43 (Severity 0): R2093: object 'shapematerial_3C_Hip_6678_ea3' (displacement 'brickyard/{407f8e5c-3a9b-4708-b5e5-799ff1fe7c1d}/shader_Displacement', surface 'brickyard/{407f8e5c-3a9b-4708-b5e5-799ff1fe7c1d}/shader_Surface') used only 0% of its displacement bound
    3Delight message #43 (Severity 0): R2093: object 'shapematerial_3B_Feet_6494_ea3' (displacement 'brickyard/{407f8e5c-3a9b-4708-b5e5-799ff1fe7c1d}/shader_Displacement', surface 'brickyard/{407f8e5c-3a9b-4708-b5e5-799ff1fe7c1d}/shader_Surface') used only 0% of its displacement bound
    2016-55-10 14:55:22.630 Saved image: C:\Users\R.A\AppData\Roaming\DAZ 3D\Studio4\temp\render\r.png
    2016-55-10 14:55:22.633 Render Cancelled
    2016-55-10 14:55:22.658 Total Rendering Time: 8.59 seconds
    2016-55-10 14:55:25.275 WARNING: libpng warning: iCCP: known incorrect sRGB profile
    2016-55-10 14:55:31.732 Saved image: D:\My Documents\DAZ 3D\Studio\My Library\People\Hair\RAMWorks\Hairstands\Fashionista Hair\3DL Scene.duf.png

     

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,352

    Yes, without lights things render fine...

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 2,995
    edited October 2016

    Those severity messages can be ignored.  They state that the displacement values went to 0.  Not a problem error-wise, it just means you're wasting memory with the displacement maps loaded since they aren't being used.

    Kendall

    Post edited by Kendall Sears on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 108,417
    edited October 2016
    Kendall Sears said:

    Those severity messages can be ignored.  They state that the displacement values went to 0.  Not a problem error-wise, it just means you're wasting memory with the displacement maps loaded since they aren't being used.

    Kendall

    and wasting calculations, since the renderer - as I understand it - checks out to the limit to look for displaced mesh (that's why people had problems when using displacement to make fur, any that was outside a bucket with geometry was cut off as there was no way in the initial sahder mixer to adjust the bounds).

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 2,995
    Richard Haseltine said:
    Kendall Sears said:

    Those severity messages can be ignored.  They state that the displacement values went to 0.  Not a problem error-wise, it just means you're wasting memory with the displacement maps loaded since they aren't being used.

    Kendall

    and wasting calculations, since the renderer - as I understand it - checks out to the limit to look for displaced mesh (that's why people had problems when using displacement to make fur, any that was outside a bucket with geometry was cut off as there was no way in the initial sahder mixer to adjust the bounds).

    Indeed.  As I remember it, each bucket has to check the displacement for the loss of precision since the microfacets are created/calculated at bucket creation time not at the start (can you imagine the memory that would take!).  However, for the purposes of this thread the time lost to unneeded calcs was probably minimal based on the few surfaces flagged.

    Kendall

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,352

    Hmmm, OK, that's good then.  Just not understanding why the AoA lights are rendering black.  I gave up on the SSS UberHair Shader as there were too many variables and my mind just can't get that sort of confusing stuff.  It's enough that I'm starting to understand iRay bit more but relearning all this 3DL shader stuff... nope.  So went back to a base shader and it renders OK.  If the client wants more they will have to fiddle on their own.  Skin looks OK but not as rich as the iRay skin.  Still would love to see this lit nicely though.  SO any suggestions besides the AoA lights since they don't seem to like me right now? 

     

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 2,995

    There's not enough information to make a confident guess.  Are you using a skydome that is blocking the AoA lights, for instance.  There are just too many variables unknown ATM.  The headlamp is attached to the camera so that is its position and direction.  Direction/position of the other lights matter, as do some of the surface settings depending on the complexity of the light.  A black specular may or may not make a difference, a bad strength value on many parameters may affect the output.  And on and on.

    Kendall

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,088

    Try shutting off all but one. Try replacing that one with a non-AOA light.

    Chances are high it's not the lights, but that will help determine it.

    Maybe make a new camera and put it where the first camera is, to make sure it's not some weird camera setting.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,352
    Kendall Sears said:

    There's not enough information to make a confident guess.  Are you using a skydome that is blocking the AoA lights, for instance.  There are just too many variables unknown ATM.  The headlamp is attached to the camera so that is its position and direction.  Direction/position of the other lights matter, as do some of the surface settings depending on the complexity of the light.  A black specular may or may not make a difference, a bad strength value on many parameters may affect the output.  And on and on.

    Kendall

    No sky dome, not that I know of anyway.  The Headlamp for my camera is set to auto.  I made sure that ONLY the lights from AoA were in the scene with my figure, that's it and her hair.  No other props or anything.  So lights, camera, figure, hair and string bikini.  That's it. 

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 2,995
    edited October 2016

    And if you replace the AoA lights with a standard distant light?

    Kendall

    Post edited by Kendall Sears on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,352

    Yes, so far Annies lights look the best (ARTCollaboration).  I'm trying out the Beautiful Bends Natural lights but it's washing out the skin but the hair looks awesome, almost as good at my iRAY settings so that's kinda weird. 

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,352

    Here is a screen grab of the lights and the result of what I was referring to as washed out skin vs perfect hair coloring...

     

     

    ScreenHunter_277 Oct. 10 16.19.jpg
    1442 x 891 - 367K
  • glaseyeglaseye Posts: 1,312

    Still puzzled why the AoA lights rendered black... Did you use the ambient light? And if so, did you place it at a 'distance'? The default setting of the AoA ambient light has a 'range' for the light of 10 meters, so if you placed the light at a greater distance, the object will not be illuminated.

    As an example here a quick render of 'Agnes' using one AoA ambient light and one AoA spotlight. Rendered in a few minutes...

     

    Agnes-AoA-test1.jpg
    600 x 900 - 200K
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,352

    I even loaded one of the AoA spot's right up close to my figure.  Just black as night when rendered!   

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,352
    edited October 2016

    Now something I am noticing... when I start from scratch with the lights is when it goes bad.  If I load in a premade light set that comes with many of the characters like some of ART Collaborations characters, the lights work as expected but if I have my scene, no lights yet, load in the AoA Advanced Distance Light in the scene... I get this:

     

    AoA ADL Render.jpg
    850 x 850 - 40K
    Post edited by RAMWolff on
  • glaseyeglaseye Posts: 1,312

    Ok, see if i can replictae this, so default load, no chance whatsoever, no repositioning.....(?)

  • glaseyeglaseye Posts: 1,312
    edited October 2016

    BTW, which version of DS are you using????

     

    Post edited by glaseye on
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001

    Ok...open a new scene, don't add any lights, then go to Help > Troubleshooting > View Log.  When the log is open in the log itself, click anywhere, then Ctl-A > Delete.  Then File > Save (this is all in Notepad, most likely as that's what the log usually opens in ).  That will clear the log.   Then wait a minute or so (sometimes it takes a while for Studio do deal with a cleared log and start writing in it again...never could figure out why it acts that way), then load the lights.    Then go back to see what's in the log.  This saves scrolling through a massive log file to find what it is saying about the lights.

    Then post the log info...

  • glaseyeglaseye Posts: 1,312
    edited October 2016

    The only way I found sofar replicating this problem was with a fresh start of DS, setting up the scene (dress + AoA ambient) and render it with the 'intermediate OpenGL' render engine.

    Rendering with this option after trying out (and deleting) other lights did not give this result.......

    Post edited by glaseye on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,352

    I'm using DAZ Studio 4.9, not the beta, the general release.  I'm about ready to head out to work. 

    The log file I posted above it the bottom part of the logging that took place when I was rendering before. 

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,352

    Intersting.  I just loaded up the Uber Spot Light and it rendered as expected...

     

     

    ScreenHunter_279 Oct. 11 09.51.jpg
    1075 x 775 - 136K
    UberSpot Light.jpg
    534 x 715 - 55K
  • glaseyeglaseye Posts: 1,312
    edited October 2016

    Oops, typed to soon....

    So, does this also work now with the ambient???

    Post edited by glaseye on
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