SubService Stream Daz content for $29.99 a Month
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I hear the points of many. If Daz is simply a self unit, for the micro products.. It would be kinda like wal-mart allowing people to take what ever they want off the selfves for a monthy fee. There were some flaws to my idea. That don't mean it can't be done though. It would just have to be re-invented. To say it's impossible idea isnt very cretive thinking. Cell Phones wouldnt be what it is today if people kept their attitudes towards them the same as they did in the late 90's. Ambition and willinginess to rethink things is what makes progress. Doubt, fear, and greed, is what brings companys down to its knees. My idea isnt perfect. I'm no genius... It would be nice to have someone add to, or try to solve an issue with my logic. Rather then say how its an impossibility. Cause it's not impossible. It just requires putting on your thinking cap to figure out how it could work, and at what cost to the PA's and Customers and Daz. Who would benifit the most from it? The customers obivously. Who might lose a little bit? At first.. the PA's. Unil the thousands of people who were turned off by the prices of Daz come flocking back to sign up. I can't count how many people I've talked to laughed when they said they would never pay more money for a virtual outfit and Wig then a real one. And THAT I undertand.
as a consumer, i like owning the tools i use. they don't disappear if i have to pinch pennies for a month or two or three.
as someone who knows what it's like to rely on direct month-by-month sales and quarterly royalties to pay the bills, i just shrug when discussions like this pop up. freelancer reality hammers freelancer math into you. freelancers tend to develop kind of a circus eye for economics--you're fine with walking the high wire, yeah, but you'll check that thing out every time before you commit, and if it'd better be a good high wire and there'd better be a check clearly visible at the other end of it...
everyone goes to the circus, but if you've never lived in the circus it's kind of hard to understand. and that's okay. that's totally okay...
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...and valandar just totally cracked me up. :)
j
Some thoughts from a customers perspective:
@ aquiring licenses is an investment in the business
Let's assume that there are some DAZaholics custumers who spend on average 500 - 600 $ in the DAZ store per month.
Let's assume that is around 30'000$ in five years.
This means some loyal customers paid a serious amount of money to have access to licensed 3d content.
So what are you going to tell them now when a subscription system of 30$ per month is introduced?
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@ the more people have access to a license the less value the licensed content has
The value of a license is also tied to some kind of exclusivity.
Let's asume that some 3D model license would be made available for purchase during a limited time only.
If only a handful of people have a license to use a 3d model it would actually have a higher value because you do not see thousands of images in which it is used.
That is why some other 3d stores add a higher price tag to their 3d models and also have a more "professional" user group who exactly knows that only a handful of business are able to actually afford the model. Therefore it is less likely that you will see the same 3d model you use for a commercial business advertisment also be used in a adult themed web comic...
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@ handing out stuff for free later is disgruntling those who allready paid
-> When customers pay for a license at the DAZ3D store they know that everyone else can do the same. There is no exclusive use.
But the customers did still pay the license fee. The assumption still is that only a limited amount of people have access to the licensed content: A limited amount of people being able to pay the license fee.
Now of course DAZ3D can do whatever they want with the license fees. As you can observe sometimes bundles that originally were 100$ or 50$ with membership are handed out free later. But each time DAZ3D hands out 3d models at a lowered price they make some people happy but actually kind of disgruntle loyal customers who originally paid the full price.
That may be the reason why I am a bit loaded on this topic...
If DAZ3D would now start to offer access to the whole catalogue basically for free at around 30$ then you just lowered the value for everyone who allready paid to pretty much zero.
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@ a new line of products on a subscription base
That being said DAZ3D could offer some NEW products in a subscription based deal so those on a very limited budget can have access to a maybe less detailed line of 3d figures.
Then we can all applaud ourselves that instead of 10'000 people creating low quality 3d images you now have 1'000'000 people flooding the web with images showcasing all the same models like tourist pictures of the Eiffel Tower or the Statue of Liberty.
@ interconections between brand name, price region and consumer groups
Based on some circles the issue with DAZ content is that some people in the industry look down on it as 3d fast food for the masses. This is of course unfair and judgemental if you look at some of the incredibly detailed models. Nevertheless any more steps towards the lower end of the price region are going to negatively impact the brand name of DAZ even further in some circles.
So IF you deceide to make some experiments in that direction it might be an option to do this with a different brand name...
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Also I just hope nobody takes what I say to heart. I'm rather rough around the edges with words. Perks of growing up in a redneck family with a father who was super duper blunt and sometimes could hurt your feelings without meaning to be mean. If ever I seem like that. Know its not intentional. I didnt think this thread would get more then 1 or 2 replys. If I hit a nerve ith some people. I appligize.
You didn't hit anyone's nerves. The subject has come up a few times previously, so you're certainly not the only person that would be interested. I think the PC+ is about as close as we're going to get to a subscription service. That's what I lived on before I started selling (and still do btw). The content in there is fantastic. Personally, my head is kind of reeling thinking about the infrastructure necessary to support a subscription based 3D content service and the cost that would be involved (it's a timely topic because my husband has been pricing this stuff out for his company recently, but a lot less users and WAY less bandwidth necessary) to make it a completely streaming service so that the content would never be on the customers' computers. One of my characters alone runs about 400 MB zipped... add all the other products in a scene... all the users trying to do stuff at the same time. People complain about the responsiveness of the DIM on a big release day. The cost would be *huge* to get a set up (in house or hosted) that would provide the responsiveness and reliabilty people would want. Honestly, I think we need better hardware technology first. But even then, I don't think I'd subscribe. Like I said earlier, I've been burned 3 times by software discontinuing-- spent thousands over years to have not even the base program available when the company decided to call it quits.
It would certainly be nice for older stuff that isnt hot sellers anymore. Then again it would be rather hard and somewhat invasive to have everything be streaming. And it would make customizing the MATS and morphs an impossability and thats like... half the fun of 3D is tinkering with things. In that sense. I'm well aware that my idea is faulty on the streaming thing. I like to own my stuff too. I like to know that what I make and render is mine to have and hold and customize it as I see fit.
For me as a consumer I have one thing to say, the day something like this were to happen is the day that I give up doing 3D art, uninstall Daz Studio and go do something else..
ChangelingChick said "Keep in mind that the PA's are also customers. But I can tell you what my issue (as a customer) is with subscription services--they can disappear. Without a moment's notice, the company offering the subscription service closes it's doors (or decides to shutter the sub service). All the content you've been using for YEARS goes poof, and you have literally nothing to use for your art anymore. "
This is my fear of such a subscription set-up as well. If you had to keep the subscription going in order to access the content. I'd rather own a license and keep a copy for private use anytime... even offline.
The problem is that with a subscription service, as has been pointed out before, you'd "rent" the rights currently granted in the EULA, rather than permanently having them.
This isn't limited to downloading/using the items in renders, but the license also grants you the right to sell/display whatever 2D results you created.
Now, when you have the "rental" version, the right to sell/display whatever 2D content you created will cease. You'd have to destroy all copies of the rendered images, destroy all saved scenes, everything. That is, in addition to other stuff mentioned, the real problem with the entire rental model. The moment the rental time ends, your entire usage rights, as granted by the EULA, will stop.
In the Netflix analogy, that would mean that the movie is no longer available for download and access, and you are also forbidden to even talk about it. Any post you made about it anywhere in forums would have to be deleted, and if you had a video interview done with you about how you liked the movie, that would have to be pulled as well, because you no longer have the right to talk about it, even if you did in the past.
That's what a rental content means, and why I, for my part, are vehemently against it.
Right now I can't afford to buy anything, I'm a seasonal worker and it can be difficult to get any work in between. Some seasons are better than others. A lot of great products released this month have gone on the wishlist. I do however have a growing library of product I can use anytime and modify any way I want and keep doing art. With a subscription service all I could do is drool. Ok, so all I can do right now is drool, but next month I can buy the licence to use those products I can afford and use them anytime I want for as long as I want. If I was using PS I would be in the same boat which is why I went with Gimp. That way I can keep learning and keep doing art. I don't think subscription would work for me even if I was doing art professionally. I know if I was a PA there is no way I would want it with the way things are. If DS had been subscription only when I found it, there is no way I would have been able to get into 3D as a hobby, not with Daz anyway. Even if I could subscribe every month, it's not worth it if I find myself without the time to be doing enough art to make it worthwhile. With the way it is I can do art every day or only once or twice a month and it's still worth it.
I think there are people like me who don't spend $30+ a month on Daz content - probably more people than you guys realize. I know many, if not most, of the forum frequenters spend a great deal of money on this art, but there are also many people like me who (either through lack of funds or just not interested in buying more) don't spend enough on this "hobby" a month to warrent paying $30 for a monthly subscription. So if a subscription was a manditory thing, it would definitely be a bad thing and I think it would lose a lot of customers. However if the subscription was not manditory, and was perhaps an alternate way of obtaining Daz 3D content, then I would be on board (we can always use more options).
Here's what I think would be more palatable for the customer as well as the PAs - a "try before you buy" program. How it would work: A $30 free would give you access to any 6 items that are a part of the program (6 is just a random number, it could be more or less items depending on what Daz decides) and you can use those items for the entire month, but limited to rent only those six items. Or if you wanted to rent up to 12 items, it could be a $60 a month fee, and so on. This basically rents out the items to you at $5 each to use as much as you want for the entire month. If you then decide to buy the item you get it at a discount (either $5 off - as it was the price of the rental fee, or a percentage off). Daz Originals could be a part of the program and vendors could have a CHOICE whether they want to be a part of the program (they could perhaps even just pick which of their items they want as part of the program). All downloaded "rental" items would have thier own folder (like DRM or a folder on the cloud)- and Daz of course could remove the items from the rental folder at the end of the month unless you chose to re-rent the items another month.
If a PA's product is chosen as a rental download they could get a percentage of the rental fee. It would be completely optional whether a PA wants a product in the program. It may lead to more sales for the PA - because if someone wouldn't normally buy an item but then tries it and decides to buy, that's a sale they wouldn't normally get. I think it would help buyers who might otherwise be afraid to try new things and it would also perhaps help vendors who's older items are just sitting there and not getting purchased (heck a percentage for a rented old item is better than no sale at all - and the renter may end up missing the product after the rental is over and buy it).
Of course the $30 for 6 items is a random number - it could be much less or much more depending on what Daz decides is more fair for the vendors and the customers. There could even be real premium options that could have rental tiers, as I mentionted. The basic rental package could be the lowest priced and give you only a few rental items, but they could have several packages that could go up to like 50 or 100 items for the "whales".
A "try before you buy" or "rental" program is definitely worth considering.
I do wish there was a try before you buy program. More often then not I'm disapointed that I just spend 50 bucks on something that is broken, or dont render right, or dont get long with my version of daz or isnt what I thought it was, or is junk and the promo ads were miss leading.
Use the 30 day money-back guarantee.. that's what it's there for :)
That's not REALLY what it's there for. lol It says on the Help Center page that "Customers who DAZ deems to be abusing the return policy and excessively returning products will receive notification from DAZ. This notification may also include notice of additional actions such as suspension of the customer's ability to further leverage the return policy, and possible suspension of their account and/or ability to make further purchases.". I'm not sure they inted it to be used as a rental program. lol :P
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I was referring to Angel - Wings comments about being disappointed with items being broken etc.. in those instances you're fully entitled to return the items. I wasn't implying that you can buy and return items on a whim.
The issue is your math is way wrong. To get $30 dollars in sales I need to sell $60 in product and with a large enough back catalog that is easily done every month. You're asking PAs to *share* a portion of $30 between 6 PAs as a try-before-you-buy, which they only get a portion of if their product is used. Which one already has a higher return, 60 divided by 2 or 30 divided by 6? (actually it would be less that 30 because DAZ is going to get their cut first)
With the current customer population, you see that a PA would have to get a magnitude more people to use buy into the program AND actually use their product before they would see a dime. How is that an improvement over how they get paid now? It isn't, and that's why they are resistant to the idea because they would make far less profit than they do now. The idea of a brokerage is not to bankrupt them for such a small fee.
Remember my neighbor is part of a rental program and he got such a large check of $5 because that's who used the product he was associated with. It only benefits those whose products are already popular and will get used often and will most likely restrict what's offered even more as PAs would only get paid for things actually used, instead of purchased from the store so they would have to be extremely choosy about what they make.
Ah I thought you where refering to the "I do wish there was a try before you buy program" part. lol Sorry, it's 3 AM here and I've stayed up WAY too late (as usual) to see what the new Daz Sales where going to be. heheh I'm such an addict. :P
Nope, I'd much rather own my content, not rent. I don't use Adobe CC for that reason.
How do you figure? I said, repeatedly, that it would be OPTIONAL on the part of the PA whether or not to participate AND they could chose what items are participating in the program, and I also said that the PA could get a percentage of the rental. If a PA has a backlog of items that aren't selling, why wouldn't they want the said items in a rental program? It wouldn't cost the PA anything and for each item rented they would get a percentage.
A rental program could only work if, at the end of the rental time, you still retain the right to display, sell and do whatever with the artwork you created with your rented content. Everyone just seems to assume that it's a given, but it is not.
Even if it is optional, still my numbers show it isn't beneficial for a PA to participate. Even one backlog sale would make up for 7 or eight you're asking PAs to do, especially if that rental isn't guaranteed. It's not pushing the product any more than a quick sale would.
I wouldn't want it either.
Daz3D is a hobby for me. A rather important one at that. There's NO WAY, that I would be able to afford $29.99 a month AND buy new content.
Netflix programs turn up on Pirate Sites, as have Encrypted items.
If I had to choose between subscription or Connect. Then I'd have to choose Connect.
Not everyone has a steady, comfortable income.
Sadly this thread, like others on the subject, has fallen into the repetition of entrenched positions and comments aimed at other posters and not the topic. As a result it has been locked.