HD Morphs

rf2016rf2016 Posts: 186
edited July 2016 in Poser Discussion

Is it possible to do HD morphs on poser?. I'm thinking to leave Daz and move to Poser 11 since we cant make our own HD morphs. In fact I already have stopped buying DAZ products since a year ago because of that.

Post edited by rf2016 on

Comments

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 9,132

    AFAIK there's no HD morphs system in Poser.

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,563
    edited July 2016
    Leana said:

    AFAIK there's no HD morphs system in Poser.

    Actually Poser 11 Pro has a feature to sculpt on subdivided meshes, but you have to either use the morph brush or have a copy of zbrush to GoZ it and back. But the implementation and uses is for it is vastly different than HD Morphs in DAZ Studio so you'll have to decide if you have the hardware to run those morphs. Also because it subdivides in the viewport (instead of at rendertime with HD morphs), you may not want to subdivide past 2 or it may slow poser. The subdivided sculpt is based on the figure that you make it against, so you can't interchange morphs like making veins or wrinkles. Also you can't import a subdivided mesh as a morph, so your only choices for morphs are the morph brush or zbrush. (there was method for using the projection brushes to transfer a subd morph made in blender on the SM official forum to get around this, so you can take a look to see if that works for you.)

    However, you may want to learn how to sculpt on low poly meshes anyway before doing anything on subdivided mesh as you will may want a bit more control to make your base shape and add details to that. And most importantly if you using Poser to make sculpts, always pull the original obj from the runtime and not export from Poser as what's exported is not the same and you may encounter issues.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • adzanadzan Posts: 268
    edited July 2016

    From the Poser 11 Pro blurb.


    NEW! Subdivision-level morph targets (Creating morphs PRO)

    Subdivision-level morph targets (Creating morphs PRO) - In Poser Pro, you can create high-resolution morphs right on the subdivided geometry and use the Export Morph Injection command to share them.

    You can also send the figure to z brush to morph in sub d but I think you have to send the figure back to poser at the same level of subdivison it was sent to zbrush, I haven't used poser 11 pro for a while so haven't test the z brush thing much and the poser help info was a little confusing the last time I read it lol

    Post edited by adzan on
  • adzanadzan Posts: 268
    edited July 2016
     Also because it subdivides in the viewport (instead of at rendertime with HD morphs), you may not want to subdivide past 2 or it may slow poser.

     Subdivision in the Viewport and Subdivision at Render Time can be set independently similarly to Daz Studio, So you don't have to show subdivision in the viewport if you have a slower computer

    Post edited by adzan on
  • LeanaLeana Posts: 9,132
    Leana said:

    AFAIK there's no HD morphs system in Poser.

    Actually Poser 11 Pro has a feature to sculpt on subdivided meshes

    Well I missed that when P11 was released then.

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,563
    adzan said:
     Also because it subdivides in the viewport (instead of at rendertime with HD morphs), you may not want to subdivide past 2 or it may slow poser.

     Subdivision in the Viewport and Subdivision at Render Time can be set independently similarly to Daz Studio, So you don't have to show subdivision in the viewport if you have a slower computer

    But still if you don't have a copy of zbrush, you have can only use the morph brush, and then you have to set the subdivision to do your morph, so you still would not set the level anywhere above subd2.

     

    Leana said:
    Leana said:

    AFAIK there's no HD morphs system in Poser.

    Actually Poser 11 Pro has a feature to sculpt on subdivided meshes

    Well I missed that when P11 was released then.

    Yes, but it's not anywhere near what you can do with HD Morphs, so that's why I haven't called their feature that.

  • adzanadzan Posts: 268
    adzan said:
     Also because it subdivides in the viewport (instead of at rendertime with HD morphs), you may not want to subdivide past 2 or it may slow poser.

     Subdivision in the Viewport and Subdivision at Render Time can be set independently similarly to Daz Studio, So you don't have to show subdivision in the viewport if you have a slower computer

    But still if you don't have a copy of zbrush, you have can only use the morph brush, and then you have to set the subdivision to do your morph, so you still would not set the level anywhere above subd2.

    I didn't have any trouble sculpting at sub d level 3 in Poser, so I'm not sure why it can't be done in poser

    Leana said:
    Leana said:

    AFAIK there's no HD morphs system in Poser.

    Actually Poser 11 Pro has a feature to sculpt on subdivided meshes

    Well I missed that when P11 was released then.

    Yes, but it's not anywhere near what you can do with HD Morphs, so that's why I haven't called their feature that.

     

    But as the origianl poster mentioned - customers can't make HD morphs with Daz Studio - which is why he/she asked if it could be done in Poser

     

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,700

    http://my.smithmicro.com/poser-whats-new.html

    NEW! Subdivision-level morph targets (Creating morphs PRO)

    Subdivision-level morph targets (Creating morphs PRO) - In Poser Pro, you can create high-resolution morphs right on the subdivided geometry and use the Export Morph Injection command to share them.

    Subdivision-level morph targets

    Subdivision-level morph targets

    NEW! Improved Subdivision Surfaces

    More robust handling of poor geometry. By integrating OpenSubdiv 3, support for meshes that were not originally designed for subdivision is enhanced.

     

    Mind, I still wouldn't buy PP11 ... there is still that Internet connection or deactivation thingie ...

    Poser 11 & Poser Pro 11 Activation System

    You have a choice between online and offline activation.

    You will have a 7 day grace period before both initial and activation refresh become mandatory.

    Feature set is limited to standard version during the initial (first) grace period if activation has not occured.

    We offer activation on 3 machines/OS installations concurrently.

    We still have our 'like a book' policy. If you purchase one seat, one person can use the software at one time. What is different now is that you can install and activate on up to three machines or OS installations.

    Need a fourth activation? Deactivate one of the first three through the P&G License Manager here: pgportal.smithmicro.com (currently read-only, managing active clients coming soon)

    You may request permanent activation capability for your license through the P&G License Manager here: pgportal.smithmicro.com (currently read-only, license editing coming soon)

    If you'd like to reset your permanent activation, you can do so through Smith Micro technical support here: support.smithmicro.com

    We have a contingency plan to allow you to continue using your copy of Poser, regardless of Smith Micro management, employee or ownership changes.

    By the way: the portal works now, so you can get a "permanent" activation - but only on this Computer. If you buy a new computer, you have to do it again.

    Same as encrypted content here at Daz ... sigh.

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,563
    adzan said:
    adzan said:
     Also because it subdivides in the viewport (instead of at rendertime with HD morphs), you may not want to subdivide past 2 or it may slow poser.

     Subdivision in the Viewport and Subdivision at Render Time can be set independently similarly to Daz Studio, So you don't have to show subdivision in the viewport if you have a slower computer

    But still if you don't have a copy of zbrush, you have can only use the morph brush, and then you have to set the subdivision to do your morph, so you still would not set the level anywhere above subd2.

    I didn't have any trouble sculpting at sub d level 3 in Poser, so I'm not sure why it can't be done in poser

    Leana said:
    Leana said:

    AFAIK there's no HD morphs system in Poser.

    Actually Poser 11 Pro has a feature to sculpt on subdivided meshes

    Well I missed that when P11 was released then.

    Yes, but it's not anywhere near what you can do with HD Morphs, so that's why I haven't called their feature that.

     

    But as the origianl poster mentioned - customers can't make HD morphs with Daz Studio - which is why he/she asked if it could be done in Poser

     

    As I said, what Poser has is nowhere near the features of HD morphs in DAZ Studio, so honestly it would still be a no. They aren't HD morphs. Also sculpting in subd 3 requires higher computer requirements, didn't say you couldn't but if your hardware requirements aren't enough your interface will slow down. But using the morph brush on a subd 3 mesh is a waste of polygons as you are only pushing polys.. something that can be done already on a lower poly mesh once you learn how to manipulate a low poly cage.

  • rf2016rf2016 Posts: 186

    Thanks a lot for your replies!

    adzan said:
     Also because it subdivides in the viewport (instead of at rendertime with HD morphs), you may not want to subdivide past 2 or it may slow poser.

     Subdivision in the Viewport and Subdivision at Render Time can be set independently similarly to Daz Studio, So you don't have to show subdivision in the viewport if you have a slower computer

    But still if you don't have a copy of zbrush, you have can only use the morph brush, and then you have to set the subdivision to do your morph, so you still would not set the level anywhere above subd2.

    I have a copy of Zbrush. Is it possible to do "HD" morphs after I subdivide a model in Poser? 

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,563
    edited July 2016
    rf2016 said:

    Thanks a lot for your replies!

    adzan said:
     Also because it subdivides in the viewport (instead of at rendertime with HD morphs), you may not want to subdivide past 2 or it may slow poser.

     Subdivision in the Viewport and Subdivision at Render Time can be set independently similarly to Daz Studio, So you don't have to show subdivision in the viewport if you have a slower computer

    But still if you don't have a copy of zbrush, you have can only use the morph brush, and then you have to set the subdivision to do your morph, so you still would not set the level anywhere above subd2.

    I have a copy of Zbrush. Is it possible to do "HD" morphs after I subdivide a model in Poser? 

    You can sculpt on a subdivided mesh, but I wouldn't call it HD as it's limited to what is done in DS, and you can't mix and match. See the above comments. If you don't know how to sculpt on low poly meshes, you probably should save your money and learn how to do that before investing $175-250 in Poser.  Most times, subdividing a figure is unnecessary and will quickly eat up resources on your machine... especially in light of the last SR for poser will be releasing soon and they'll be working on the next version of Poser... if this is your only reason for switching, you probably should think though your decision a bit more. I don't think it's worth it on that feature alone and plan to use it on genesis figures.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • I am afraid I still do not quite understand from this thread what exactly the differences are to the vendor-only HD-morph capabilities in DAZ. Something I have needed and wanted to do for a long, long time now is to animate FACS (as in "Facial Action Coding System" accurate action units (that together compose facial expressions). I have been waiting and waiting (and still waiting) for any decent animateable HD-expressions with high-quality wrinkles (just think about the kind of wrinkles you would need for an accurate disgust expression, but basically pretty much all of them need many winkles all over the face to accurately reflect the skin mocing). From what I have seen of Vilter's Blender tutorial, it looks like it should in principle be possible make more realistic animatable expression morphs that way, and also combine them in the timeline(?). Or is that incorrect?

    I would happily buy some good expressions but it seems like just no one is creating such a thing in DAZ - i.e., I can see essentially zero advancement in the quality of expressions in the store these last couple of years, and that's well.. not what I would have expected. Is this because it is too difficult to do? But why?

  • of course if it is possible to do good animated expressions with displacement maps, I would be happy about that, too - but it seems even more complicated, and I am stll not sure how to animate and move correctly the normal maps for that in DAZ. Is there perhaps a tutorial for this? I do not care so much what is the theoretically best way - as long as the final end result is really good...

  • Hello all.
    I am releasing a series of Poser tutorials on youtube. Seach for "Poser2Blender2Poser".
    ​Video 1 => The correct export - import settings between both apps. => Poser to Blender to Poser (hence the name of the series) LOL.)
    Video 2 => Creating Full Body Morphs and High Definition Morphs, and combining both.
    ​Video 3 => How to work with FBM and HD Morphs in ALL Poser versions (not just Pro, but ALL versions that have the Morph brush.)
    ​Video 4 => Why deleting the object files that Poser saves fro you? => Follow on on the First video, here's the WHY !
    Video 5 => To  Morph? To JCM? Or not?

    More are in the pipeline. Best regards all. Tony

  • Seach youtube for the "Poser2Blender2Poser" series.
    All info is there.

  • MorkonanMorkonan Posts: 215

    Seach youtube for the "Poser2Blender2Poser" series.
    All info is there.

    Here? ->>

  • MorkonanMorkonan Posts: 215
    edited August 2016

    From what I have seen of Vilter's Blender tutorial, it looks like it should in principle be possible make more realistic animatable expression morphs that way, and also combine them in the timeline(?). Or is that incorrect?

     

     

    I can only answer for Poser. But, it's possible to create morphs and to combine them and key them to just about anything, from dialspins to joint movement. For instance, you could easily load up a figure, sub-d it if you wish, set the "smile" morph to 1, use the morph tool and create a new morph called "smile-wrinkles" and then add wrinkles using the morph tool. (Note: If you create a morph on a sub-d'd version of the figure, you can either have that morph only active when the figure is sub-d'd at that particular level of you can order Poser to populate lower resolutions of that morph so approximations of it will be apparent in all resolutions of the mesh. Very handy for distance shots when you don't need a hi-res mesh.) Once you're done with your new morph, that is especially crafted to be used in tandem with the smile morph at its setting of 1, then you simply right-click on the "smile-wrinkles" morph you just created and associate it with being controlled by the "smile" morph. Then use the "Teach" function to set the morph to the proper settings to use as the original "smile" morph is activated. You can even go in and edit the progressive "curve" function to limit the smile-wrinkle morph or even increase it, depending upon whatever strength the original "smile" morph is set.

    In Poser 11 Pro, it's ludicrously easy to create quality controlled morphs that can give you the figure reponse that you want. In Poser, in case you're wondering, it's also possible to animate textures.(That's been around for a very long time in old versions of Poser) Other advanced features like geometry switching and the like are also available and have been for a great while.

    Poser 11's Morph Tool seems much better than previous versions, to me. I do a great deal of morphs in other applications, but I find myself more and more often using Poser's Morph tool to fine-tune the finished product. All in all, I'm extremely happy with Poser 11 Pro's features in this regard and, to be honest, in a great many other things that it brings to the table. (Poser 11 Pro)

    Disclaimers: I do not work with Genesis figures. I work almost exclusively with the Victoria 4 mesh and associated figures when creating morphs for human figures in Poser. I also do not use the native Poser 11 figures because... Well, they're just not very realistic looking and do not handle and deform as well as a tweaked V4 figure/mesh. Though, the native Poser 11 figures now also include new bones in the face (A bunch!) and allow for all sorts of manipulation of expressions, on the fly, using the included handles. (I'm going to try to re-rig a V4 figure to see if I can add that functionality without borking up any conforming products. :) )

    Post edited by Morkonan on
  • Corrrect Morkonan.
    There are 5 video's in this series , and more to come.

    Video2 is about FBM and HD Morphs.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2BNG8jFr_M

    ​Video3 is how to work with FBM and HD Morphs in ALL Poser versions that have the Morph brush.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz59AYtICvs

  • MorkonanMorkonan Posts: 215

    Corrrect Morkonan.
    There are 5 video's in this series , and more to come.

    Video2 is about FBM and HD Morphs.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2BNG8jFr_M

    ​Video3 is how to work with FBM and HD Morphs in ALL Poser versions that have the Morph brush.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz59AYtICvs

     

    Have you had any issues with vertex order using Blender multi-group exports?

  • Video 1 in this series takes care of the export-import settings between Poser and Blender.
    Never had an issue with grouped objects.
    ​best regards, Tony

  • MorkonanMorkonan Posts: 215

    Video 1 in this series takes care of the export-import settings between Poser and Blender.
    Never had an issue with grouped objects.
    ​best regards, Tony

    Thanks. I'll look at this with more interest. Problems with vertex order are as varied as 3D apps and some handle the issue better than others. I've used Blender and multi-group exports, but haven't done much with it, so wasn't sure if problems crop up, from time to time.

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