Fauvist said:
We're already getting the base of these generations for free, so what's the benifit of have one non-gendered figure instead of a male and a female base? If the reason is that it makes clothing creation easier or faster, does that mean the price of the clothing is going to drop proportionately?

I can at least answer this one: the split meshes mean that some stuff will always have limited flexibility. This is especially true for morphs, but there are also geografts, specialized textures, and clothing that require so much work to convert in a usable way that at some point you may as well just learn to make your own. For example, I've been trying to find a specific kind of belt with an accurate sword sheath for one of my characters. Belts often have awful results with autofit or even converters because they sit right on a very visible, large, flexible part of the figure, and even a custom character with a nonstandard shape can warp a belt that hasn't been fit for them. I need it for a main character, so it has to be detailed and high quality. The sheath hangs from the hip, so if it's going to move that makes conversion even trickier. These exist in a few G8F-specific accessory sets. They also exist for male characters--in Luthbel's G2 Wildenlander sets. I'm using a kitbashed "good enough" version while hoping that Wildenlander stuff is on Luthbel's list of sets to update, because I am many years from being as happy with something I could make. 

One of the sets that has a belt like this is just a weapon set; there's nothing gender-coded about it. But I suspect it was made specifically for G8F because I've seen many PAs explain that the more complicated something is to make look good on a figure, generally the less return they get on the time and effort needed to make a male version. Certain types of monster or fantasy characters--which frequently rely on geografts and HD morphs that can't be easily transferred--either only exist for one figure or need two separate purchases to work on both. There are so many items that are aesthetically gender neutral that have to rely on autofit to work and need manual fixes or postwork every time they're used, which is an incredible pain when you need to use a character in lots of images. The more detail a high quality item has, like straps or fastenings, the more autofit turns them into putty.

The unified mesh means that even if vendors continue to mostly make G9 items designed for feminine characters, they likely no longer need to choose whether to spend extra labor on making a version of the same item with a proper fit for a separate figure. It may even mean that we'll get more high-quality items designed for masculine characters if rigging and weight mapping only has to be done once to work for every character. I would be interested to hear PAs' thoughts on this!

I'm actually completely in favor of this even if it means replacing most of my existing items with G9-specific versions, because if it works well it means I never have to worry about whether something I buy will be flexible enough to use ever again. Anyone who starts building a library with G9 items won't have to worry about it and will not have to spend hours trying to find solutions to issues. They may not have to spend extra money buying converters for F and M figures for each generation if those become a thing down the line. Content creators buying merchant resource skins and morph packs can probably use them to make any kind of character. It erases a lot of future debt caused by the figure split. 

However, I have been told so many times that either Daz would never do a unified mesh again ever because it would break backwards compatibility (so it's an absurd thing to want) or that anyone who is okay with breaking backwards compatibility for greater functionality wants everyone to go broke and suffer...that I started saying backwards compatibility should be included if at all possible and promptly got people rolling their eyes at me for that, too. :V Well, it's cool that one impossible thing panned out! 

Paintbox said:

I wonder if morphs can be transferred, since the meshes are very different. Morphs rely on the vertex order / count being the exact same, and it probably changed. Jay Versluis did mention you can unwrap your morph in some way and there is a course by him that explains the process. Just something I remember from the unveiling on YT.

For one, making very recent products obsolete would be a dumb choice. Second, we know the autofit works fine and autofit requires clones.
Third, as stated above, each generation gets more complex. We have g2 to g8 character converters in the store, so morph transfers are very possible.

Can someone tell me which face morph and texture is it and if it exists then where can I find it : https://www.daz3d.com/nadae-bun-hair-set-for-genesis-3-and-8-females

IS IT POSSIBLE TO IMPORT EMISSIVE MATERIALS WITH DAZ TO UNREAL PLUGING?
Night city scenes are totally dark in unreal, do i need to create my own materials for transfer?
Why is this not a thing? 
I want my neon lights back etc...
 

Sven Dullah said:

Never thought I'd say this in public, as I don't play the DAZ sales game, but here goes...

The old stuff in your rutimes won't automagically disappear into thin air just because there is a new Gen. As I see it, the angst is all about fear of missing out.

Personally I will play with the free G9 stuff, when available, see if it converts well to aweSurface and go from there. If I like what I see, I might even buy the basic morph bundles and some character morphs and outfits. 

Regarding memory usage etc - that's an IRay curse I'll never have to worry about. Always found the workflow of buying HD morphs and textures for maximal realism to use on the latest graphics card, then buying scene optimizers and stuff to reduce resolution to be able to actually use the stuff, and, in the end, to remove noise, use a denoiser that kinda belongs to the last century tech, for a descent result, a bit counter-productive.

This exactly.  G9 doesn't invalidate G8.1, G8, etc. I'm sure PAs are still going to release G8 stuff for a while, as well as stuff that's G9 & G8 compatible (look at all the stuff that's G3 and G8).  I'm not going to completely scrap my current projects also just because G9 is out.  I still have a vision with the characters that I ahve that I'll continue with because the style of them is what I like.

I may slow down on my spending for a bit, not invest as much in G8 stuff anymore, and start looking at G9 stuff once it starts coming out.  And who knows, maybe someone will come up with a good G8 to G9 character converter.

I see a lot of people complaining, like this is something being forced on them, like Daz is just going to shut down all the sales of G8 and everything previous.  G9 will trickle in.  Over the next two years or so, more and more stuff will be available on the market.  Sure, your hardware today may not be able to handle it, and you may be doing just fine with what you're running now...but it'll be available for when you are ready.

It's like the nVidia announcement the other day.  People acting like it completely invalidates their hardware.  "I just bought a 3090Ti!  There's no way I'm buying a 4090!"  Do you go and buy a new car whenever a new model comes out?  I guess some people do, but not every one.  You go out and buy what you need when you need.  If you're still rockin' a 750, maybe you should look at getting something a bit beefier because games going forward are going to be more demanding...but that doesn't invalidate the games  you already have in your library.

And it's the same here.  I was thinking, "Shit..all those clothes, all those poses, all that hair I have sitting in my library for Genesis 8!  None of it will work!!!!" But...it will work just fine with my G8 characters.  Daz isn't removing those from my library and forcing me to buy new G9 stuff to replace it.  And I'm sure there will come a time eventually when Manfriday or someone else comes with a clothing or hair converter that we can use to continue to use those clothes and poses in G9.  But, there will also be shinier newer stuff coming out that may make you look at those G8 clothes and go, "Meh, they're ok, but I like these better." 

DAZ_ann0314 said:

bytescapes said:

Well, this is just another slap in the face for everyone who has been patiently waiting for Unflateable Pony 2.0 and the Millennium Cow.

LMAO TY for the giggle LOL but who says there will be no Unflateable Pony? I mean one does not simply just state such huge news  And maybe the above comments are correct.. maybe Genesis 9 will morph into the unflateable pony AND cow...if so *mind blown*

...but what about Millenium Cube 9? 

Got me thinking though, would daz be able to transfer all the 8k maps using daztomaya using the bridge with all the 8k maps?

Never thought I'd say this in public, as I don't play the DAZ sales game, but here goes...

The old stuff in your rutimes won't automagically disappear into thin air just because there is a new Gen. As I see it, the angst is all about fear of missing out.

Personally I will play with the free G9 stuff, when available, see if it converts well to aweSurface and go from there. If I like what I see, I might even buy the basic morph bundles and some character morphs and outfits. 

Regarding memory usage etc - that's an IRay curse I'll never have to worry about. Always found the workflow of buying HD morphs and textures for maximal realism to use on the latest graphics card, then buying scene optimizers and stuff to reduce resolution to be able to actually use the stuff, and, in the end, to remove noise, use a denoiser that kinda belongs to the last century tech, for a descent result, a bit counter-productive.

As many pointed out, lack of bw compat for some bones and morphs is definitely a reason to reject this from the start. The only reason I bought 8.1 content is compatability - I still prefer using g8 unless it's a morph that won't work on it.

As for the unimesh... while the idea of being able to use certain male clothes for females is nice, unless loading g9f means it won't load g8m morphs as well to slow it down, I won't even touch the base g9m morphs, let alone buy characters (unless they blow my mind, and I could probably count the g8 that fit here on one hand).

8k textures and all the other bells and whistles are pointless, they didn't need a new base. As for the changes made for PAs....well, it's up to them to sell g9 to me. If they start rehashing the things I already have for g8, I won't won't be buying much.

As for converters... until they're able to convert hd morph, they're of no use to me.

Ghosty12 said:

Gordig said:

The expectation/demand that so many people seem to have that G9 is fully compatible with previous generations is just weird as hell to me. I started using DS during the G8 era, and I always assumed that G8 would eventually be superseded by something. If Daz is releasing a new generation of figures (or figure, as the case is with G9), I would much rather they prioritize whatever makes the figure better than previous generations than try to make it backwards compatible, because those goals are very much at odds with each other where 3D models are concerned.

The one thing why some folks want some form backwards compatibility, is with the content they have acquired over the years that being mainly clothing, hair and character morphs. And that last bit character morphs is a big one for many, they may have a character they love using a lot but the base character generation that the character is based on may have some limitations.

They then see that the next newer base character generation has some things they love, and as such want to port their favourite character to that new generation. This is why there are products that make it a bit easier to do this.

The thing with Genesis 9 after watching a bit of the announcement video, that may make this a bit more difficult is how they have changed where the main facial features such as eyes and mouth are in the figures tree they are no longer under the head sub tree like it has been for years.

 ...exactly.  This was part of the reason I have stuck with G3 as a certain plugin called Generation Xwas not updated for G8.  Sadly the PA passed on before G8 was released so that put an end to mixing in shapes and morphs from older figures. I do this a pretty much regularly as I design custom characters of my own (I rarely if ever use a character "out of the box" save for Aiko 3, toon characters, and the Troll)  So in one character there may be small amounts of a half dozen or more figures/characters.

This was part why I was a very late adopter of G8 as I could only import morphs form G3 (via a plugin by Zev0) but none of the older ones.  This almost compete lack of backwards compatibility is a huge waste as I'm not about to send the thousands I previously invested in this into the dustbin because it no longer is compatible with the current "state of the art" figure.

G9 may morph and pose better but that's a small trade-off for ditching a large part of my content library.

Pendraia said:

Actually the original genesis had the most compatibility, alternative uv's for all millennium 4 figures and autofit for millennium 3 and 4. They reduced the amount of compatibility since then imo... that said if you have skills with a modelling program clothing is easily compatible with any figure. Creating alternative uv's requires a lot more skill. 

Most people don't have a lot of cash to spare so being able to use their previous investment is important to them. 

... 

Hello,

I had a Genesis 8.1 figure saved with the various parameters how I wanted. I have since had a hard drive crash and reinstalled my library which was on the drive. When I reload the figure, the face morph is different, and I get no error messages indicating missing files. 

I then unbatched the file and opened it in Notepad, and manually set all the morph parameters based on what was active in the old file so they match. However, when I rebatch the file and open it, the face morph is still different. 

Finally, I found a much older file that I was able to recover of the same character and opened it (as well as the parameter check within Notepad) and this old file was off as well. 

Has anyone encountered this before? Or does anyone have a suggestion of a resolution? The irony is the OBJ I had for the model was lost in the HDD corruption as well. 

I wonder if morphs can be transferred, since the meshes are very different. Morphs rely on the vertex order / count being the exact same, and it probably changed. Jay Versluis did mention you can unwrap your morph in some way and there is a course by him that explains the process. Just something I remember from the unveiling on YT.

Jason Galterio said:

Richard Haseltine said:

Jason Galterio said:

Is there any changes to the morph loading procedures? To avoid the naming and loading times that happen with G8?

I asked in the chat, but didn't get an answer.

That would really require a DS change.

Really? I don't have it happening with G3 or G2, even when I have just as many morphs installed.

Have you looked at the differences in file sizes, which translate to lines of code.

Towards the end, G3 did start with the symptoms already, but the HD characters on G8 blew the bank

Kainjy, i plugin HD sono terribilmente pesanti sulle scene. Molto meglio un buon numero di poligoni per i morph e i GeoGraft. Per i dettagli che vorresti scoplire, mai sentito di Bump e Displacement? E non venirmi a dire che sono più difficili da realizzare di un morph. E poi più poligoni significa maggiore possibilità di porting delle vecchie figure.

Per tutto il resto sono d'accordo, anzi rido come un matto. Quando dicevo che dovevano aumentare i poligoni e rimettere la figura unificata tutti mi davano addosso dicendo "non capisci nulla, le mutande non calzano" o "aggiorna i driver video". Ora che la figura è unificata e con più poligoni tutti gridano alla rivoluzione. Questo dà da pensare...

Le parti separate porteranno solo altra confusione, già era un pasticcio con le ciglia, ora perfino parti necessarie come la bocca e gli occhi sono separati. Questo porterà ad un numero assurdo di morph correttivi per le parti staccate e più difficile la creazione di moprh custom. Per non parlare del fatto che ogni parte sembra avere un rig completo tipo Full-Body e questo significa meno RAM e VRAM disponibile per i render IRay.

Vederemo come sarà il rig e se potrà effettivamente essere usato per le animazioni. Sin da G3 è infernale posare una figura, quando tiri un piede ti becchi tutta una rassegna del meglio del Cirque Di Soleil.

Decisamente non sono impaziente di fare il salto a meno di non avere strumenti per adattare la mia libreria esistente.

E preparatevi per la lunga lista di barbe per signore...

Pendraia said:

kyoto kid said:

Blando Calrissian said:

fred9803 said:

I missed a bit. Anything about clothing compatability yet?

From what I am reading from PAs in the chat box, clothing will need conversion (will likely auto-convert as Gen 3 does to Gen 8)

Edit: Jay indicates that it could be "hit or miss"...

...I get the feeling it will be more "miss" than "hit".  I have the G8 to G3 clothing converter and it doesn't always do so well.  In one clothing set I could only get the boots and T-shirt to convert, the rest of the items wouldn't. even doing each individually.  I stick to fitted clothing as dForce just takes way to long on my old gear to run a sim.

I convert a lot of items for my own use and my favourite way of doing it is to send it to a modeller and adjust to fit in the modeller. I send it over without fitting to. While it's in the modeller I fit the garment to character I'm doing it for and then when I send back the item from the modeller I either update the mesh or send it as a morph. This method gives me the least distortion of the clothing and the best fit for the character.

...unfortunately my modelling skill is nothing to write home about, particularly for dealing with "soft" surface meshes. I'd need some form of conversion script or utility and even those are not 100%. 

Mada said:

fred9803 said:

Kainjy said:

G8 materials are compatibles ?
Poses, Clothing/Hair and morphs no.. but materials ? 

No, previous textures won't work. 

 G8 clothing will fit G9 with autofit - same as always. High heel shoes won't, same as before. I keep on seeing posts that it won't work. Yes it will lol

...so clothing content for older figures prior to G8 (which is the majority of my clothing content as I don't use dForce) won't work?

Richard Haseltine said:

caravelle said:

I have seen Windows logos in the background now and then. Does this mean that Genesis 9 only works on Windows machines? That would be terrible. I just pre-ordered Victoria 9, but if it doesn't work on my Mac, I'll have to cancel that.

And I didn't find the link for the freebie because the chat was blocked (??). It would be nice if Daz would post this link again.

It's content, it's just that those people were suing Windows machines 9and probably needed them to show redners quickly enough for the stream).

....I noticed one of them was for Windows 7.  

kyoto kid said:

Blando Calrissian said:

fred9803 said:

I missed a bit. Anything about clothing compatability yet?

From what I am reading from PAs in the chat box, clothing will need conversion (will likely auto-convert as Gen 3 does to Gen 8)

Edit: Jay indicates that it could be "hit or miss"...

...I get the feeling it will be more "miss" than "hit".  I have the G8 to G3 clothing converter and it doesn't always do so well.  In one clothing set I could only get the boots and T-shirt to convert, the rest of the items wouldn't. even doing each individually.  I stick to fitted clothing as dForce just takes way to long on my old gear to run a sim.

I convert a lot of items for my own use and my favourite way of doing it is to send it to a modeller and adjust to fit in the modeller. I send it over without fitting to. While it's in the modeller I fit the garment to character I'm doing it for and then when I send back the item from the modeller I either update the mesh or send it as a morph. This method gives me the least distortion of the clothing and the best fit for the character.

Io al momento non vedo un valido motivo per passare alla nuova generazione, cerco di spiegarmi:

• Maggior numero di poligoni: il numero di poligoni non è più un problema grazie ai morph HD.. con un morph HD puoi trasformare un G8 in un drago, cavallo, ecc.. per cui mi sembra inutile (anche perchè finchè non rendono pubblico il metodo per crearli... nessuno può scolpire dettagli come vene o altro sulla figura). La risoluzione della figura base è un G8 con subdivision 1, i morph HD attuali lavorano con G8 suddivisi dalle 2 alle 4 volte.
• Texture 8K: non era necessaria una nuova figura.. prendi il G8 e crei una nuova texture, la puoi creare anche a 16K
• Morph facciali rivisti: bastava correggere/fixare quelli esistenti sui G8
• Figura unisex: già lo avevano fatto con G1.. poi sono tornati indietro per dei problemi e hanno preferito ridividere maschio/femmina, dunque si riavranno gli stessi problemi di allora ? E comunque già adesso si può fare un morph per trasformare i G8 maschi in femmine e viceversa
• Occhi e denti staccati dal corpo della figura: bisognerà vedere che succede quando si crea un morph... le eyelashes si adattano/spalmano sulla faccia quando attivo un morph, non vorrei che ora la cosa potesse accadere anche agli occhi
• 4 colori di skin: bianco, scuro, asiatico e latino.. viva l'inclusività ​

A ciò si aggiunge che vestiti, pose e perfino i materiali dei G8 non sono più compatibili.. tocca ricreare la libreria da 0 per avere solo qualche miglioramento marginale (espressioni più realistiche).
Pertanto resto dubbioso... però aspetto che i G9 siano pubblici per dare il giudizio finale, in compenso ora speriamo abbasseranno i prezzi dei G8.

I'm not totally sure what you're after but when I export to zbrush it exports the deformations from the parameter sliders. That's how I create custom morphs for things I make. I dial in the morph I wish to use and send to zbrush.  Just need to use reverse deformations on the way back.

barbult said:

Why would I want to pay a month early for a bundle of undisclosed content? I haven't even seen any statement about a lower price for preorder. I see a free bikini and a free older hair refit to Genesis 9 with preorder. So according to Jay's video, that means 2 bikinis. What? Can't she wear "regular" clothing, you know, with sleeves and collars and skirts, etc? I think I'll just let the dust settle and play with the G9 before spending any money on V9. She looks good, and I'm sure I'll eventually buy into some G9, even if it is not V9.

It took me a long time to get V8 & V8.1 because I like most PA characters better and didn't really see any advantage to them. I loved V7 but she is so recognizable but I still sometimes dial some of her in other characters and even got V7 for V8. V9 looks pretty recognizable too with the red hair & freckles but I like the morph better than the two V8s. If I ever get my machine capable of using DS 4.21 and V9 I'll probably get it eventually but not at launch. I'm curious to see what Mousso does with G9 but mostly if my machine is capable I want to see if we'll get a set of animal morphs that we can use without the need to depend on PAs creating animals. 

Yeah, this is the first thing that came to my mind when I saw the stream; I have to transfer ALL the morphs of my characters all over again. And while we DO have great programs such as shape rigger plus, doing quality transfers like Rivesoft's products do from scratch will not be easy.
So, please, a transfer tool?