@knittingmommy   Welcome back!  Hope your writing went well. I haven't done much with Victoria 8, and I think Michael 8 is going to be here really shortly, due to all the G3M sales. Whenever he comes out, I'm looking forward to the same quality of expanded abilities for expressions. 

​​Currently, today, not in some speculative future world with unlimited tech resources, Michael/Victoria 1-4, Genesis, Genesis 2, Posette, Dork, Jesse, James, Sydney, Simon, and Tera Yuki open natively in Carrara where they can be customized to heart's content.  Alternativey, currently, today, these figures and Genesis 3 and G8F can be bridged to Hexagon for custom morphs with one click and sent back with auto prompt to add the morph.  Depending upon Daz's chocies regarding Hexagon and othe programs (Carrara is not being developed currently), this level of convenience will be (future tense) lost.  I don't know or care about 100% compatibility, whatever that means, I know or care about preserving CURRENT functionality.  The 100% standard is a straw man.

If Blender aficianaos are saying a bridge to Blender can't or won't be done because Daz would never rely on a 3rd party's cooperation for compatibility (or fill in any other objection), then that goes in the disadvantage list for Blender.  Full stop.  It doesn't mean Daz can't do bridges.  Yes, Daz can because Daz does now.  And, some of us really like that level of convenience.  Maybe some readers don't care about that level of convenience, and I'm glad that view can be expressed here.  But it doesn't mean Daz can't choose to preserve it if it is a priority.  Saying Daz can't choose to do it is just conflating the priorities of Blender users with what can be done.

..

"I say this as someone who has ported and used
 the Geneses in Blender and loves Blender... passionately.
 No. Just no. There are quite a few DS features that Blender
(and other programs as well) doesn't not have that make
 working with the Genesis ecosystem possible including,
 but not limited to: the way DS handles morphs such that
 they require no memory until they are dialed in, auto 
transfer of morphs to fitted clothing, being able to 
auto-adjust rigs to morphs and store that information 
easily with the morph, clothes having a separate rig 
that follows the main rig, and drivers that are quick 
and easy to set up. All of these features are necessary
 for the Geneses to function as they ought."

 Thank you!!
I really, really wish that more people understood this
before calling for"bridges" and "Genesis Support " in other programs.

A one hundred percent fully functional genesis figure will only ever happen inside
 DAZ studio.

People wanting to use Genesis outside of  studio, need to be prepared for compromise,extra labor
and/or loss of native features ( like HD morphs etc.). 

After several hours and 23 attempts ...

Would love to know the Character, Skin, and head-Hair used for this image -- and perhaps especially how you got the look in the Sclera of the eyes.

All of this seems quite photo-realistic, and that quality is something we're working hard to make "just second nature" to our work.

Thank you, Will! :) The hair is Tears Hair with my own hair shader settings. The character is a morph I made in ZBrush that I'm submitting to Daz once I get her textures done (not the textures shown). The textures shown are Victoria 8's textures with her default settings except I bumped her SubD up to 3. The key to getting V8's default skin settings to look better is the lighting and render settings: 

Be warned, while those settings make V8's skin look good (with Daz's default "Ruins" HDR) you'll have to adjust the settings for other character's skin (particularly the White Point). And those settings definitely increase render times.

Thanks bunches for the info.

I "get" that the LIGHTING on skin can have a HUGE impact on how the skin looks.  Even the best skin textures can look lousy if the light applied to them is lousy.

I think I'm concluding from the Tone Mapping settings you show that you're mostly trying to use these settings to:  1] get the right "color balance" (White Point) of the light (regardless of, or in offset to) whatever lighting is used; and  2] trying to avoid "blowing out" the highlights (Burn Highlights) or "getting lost in the shadows" (Crush Blacks). -- either of which reduces the visibility of little details that convey "realism".  Correct?  
At first blush, this can seem like something that overall could be addressed in post-processing with a Photoshop-like tools.  But in my limited experience so far with Daz Studio and Iray ... I'm finding that lighting that is "properly balanced" for the scene overalll can often be considerably "sub-optimal" (to put it charitably) for skin.  Even that can be re-balanced "in post" in many cases -- especially if you use the Canvas and Alpha functions of Iray -- but doing that can be a time-consuming pain.  Plus, why add any extra step of "post' if you can safely take care of an issue in the original render?

Is it your sense that adjusting the White Point is needed by the tint of the light from the HDRI you use in this case?  Or is White Point adjustment something that likely needs to be done on a skin-by-skin basis to accommodate each skin's "pigmentation", translucence/sub-surface shading, etc.?

Do you increase SubDivision more for a general sense of "not blocky / too-angular"?  Or is this maybe necessary to achieve a more realistic/detailed "contouring" (and perhaps a more distinct "defintion" of the contours there)?

And finally, as for adding Morphs ... I understand that you'd need to make some substantial changes to the base G8F geometry in order to have a "unique" character to offer for sale via the Daz3d Marketplace.
But have you also found that adding particular kinds of morphs beyond G8F's "out of the box" shape is necessary -- in order to add different or better-defined contours in the face and/or body specifically to achieve a realistic look?

I'm sure you have plenty to do.  But if/when you can make the time to respond, it would be much appreciated.
You've probably figured out already that I tend to be pretty keen on understanding thoroughly and specifically WHY things are done, as much as (and often more than) the HOW they are done (although that sure can help, too).
Best ...

I'm really new to adjusting the render settings, so I can't answer all that, but I'll answer what I can. Victoria 8's skin looks kind of "flat" (IMO) with the default Iray render settings (even though, as you can see, she definitely has a lot of detailing in her skin). She also, to me, looks too orange (something I noticed that many of the Daz Original characters have an issue with - again, just my opinion). The White Point adjustment is to get rid of some of the "orange" in her skintone under the default settings. The Crush Blacks and Burn Highlights seems to bring out some of the detailing that her skin has, that doesn't show up very well under the default Iray settings. 

Different skins look better with different settings. Sad, but true. Why Daz doesn't optimize their characters for viewing under the default Iray settings with the included "Ruins" HDR is something I don't understand. I'm sure they have a reason for it. I've seen some complaints about how V8's skin "lacks detail" and it doesn't at all. It just looks like it does under the default settings. Her skin actually has a lot of realism and detail. The characters definitely tend to look better with some adjustments though.

As for SubD - I know that the details included in the mesh sculpt tend to look better with a higher SubD. It also helps smooth out the edges for close ups. 

As for morphing - I've had a lot of fun creating character morphs in ZBrush and haven't needed any other morphs. I've not even bought the face and body morphs yet for Genesis 8. I'm sure I will eventually, but for now if I want a specific morph I just bring her into ZBrush and do my best to make it happen. :) I've been able to create some pretty drastic morphs so far. I've got an Alien morph and some creature morphs that I'll be submitting to Daz.

https://www.daz3d.com/daughters-of-eve-2-faces-for-v4 and https://www.daz3d.com/daughters-of-eve-2-body-shapes-for-v4 were the ones I was eyeing. I was also seriously considering https://www.daz3d.com/ps-ruffa_faceplay-for-v4, which is by the same artist, because the promo image looks almost exactly like a character I want to create.

I wasn't aware there were genesis 3 versions, but then, I still don't really understand the difference between victoria and genesis ... I wasn't kidding when I said I was new at this. I knew there'd be a learning curve, but wow.

Well, I am finally caught up with this thread!  Can you believe there were over 500 posts since the last I managed to drop in here?  Between taking off April for writing and never fully getting caught up and then taking off for vacation last month, I wasn't sure if I'd ever get caught up.  You guys have been very busy.

About Victoria 8:  I like her and haven't had any issues with her skin and my lighting so far.  You would not believe how long it took me to figure out that there were fiber mesh eyebrows, though!  I was almost ready to start a thread in the Commons to find out why I couldn't get any eyebrows no matter which makeup preset I applied!  Luckily, I figured it out before making a complete fool out of myself.  Of course, now, I've admitted to being a fool.  :)

@Novica  Unless I missed, it both your son and your mother are doing better so I'm happy to see that.  It was nice to read that your mother was actually up and walking fairly well.  I hope they both keep getting better.

@DestinysGarden  Glad to hear your son is doing okay after the heart surgery.  I'm so sorry to hear about your grandmother.  My condolences.  It's very nice that you got to visit with her back in April.

There are Victoria 4 products with that name and Genesis 3 Female products with that name.  Which ones are you refering too? 

After several hours and 23 attempts ...

Would love to know the Character, Skin, and head-Hair used for this image -- and perhaps especially how you got the look in the Sclera of the eyes.

All of this seems quite photo-realistic, and that quality is something we're working hard to make "just second nature" to our work.

Thank you, Will! :) The hair is Tears Hair with my own hair shader settings. The character is a morph I made in ZBrush that I'm submitting to Daz once I get her textures done (not the textures shown). The textures shown are Victoria 8's textures with her default settings except I bumped her SubD up to 3. The key to getting V8's default skin settings to look better is the lighting and render settings: 

Be warned, while those settings make V8's skin look good (with Daz's default "Ruins" HDR) you'll have to adjust the settings for other character's skin (particularly the White Point). And those settings definitely increase render times.

Thanks bunches for the info.

I "get" that the LIGHTING on skin can have a HUGE impact on how the skin looks.  Even the best skin textures can look lousy if the light applied to them is lousy.

I think I'm concluding from the Tone Mapping settings you show that you're mostly trying to use these settings to:  1] get the right "color balance" (White Point) of the light (regardless of, or in offset to) whatever lighting is used; and  2] trying to avoid "blowing out" the highlights (Burn Highlights) or "getting lost in the shadows" (Crush Blacks). -- either of which reduces the visibility of little details that convey "realism".  Correct?  
At first blush, this can seem like something that overall could be addressed in post-processing with a Photoshop-like tools.  But in my limited experience so far with Daz Studio and Iray ... I'm finding that lighting that is "properly balanced" for the scene overalll can often be considerably "sub-optimal" (to put it charitably) for skin.  Even that can be re-balanced "in post" in many cases -- especially if you use the Canvas and Alpha functions of Iray -- but doing that can be a time-consuming pain.  Plus, why add any extra step of "post' if you can safely take care of an issue in the original render?

Is it your sense that adjusting the White Point is needed by the tint of the light from the HDRI you use in this case?  Or is White Point adjustment something that likely needs to be done on a skin-by-skin basis to accommodate each skin's "pigmentation", translucence/sub-surface shading, etc.?

Do you increase SubDivision more for a general sense of "not blocky / too-angular"?  Or is this maybe necessary to achieve a more realistic/detailed "contouring" (and perhaps a more distinct "defintion" of the contours there)?

And finally, as for adding Morphs ... I understand that you'd need to make some substantial changes to the base G8F geometry in order to have a "unique" character to offer for sale via the Daz3d Marketplace.
But have you also found that adding particular kinds of morphs beyond G8F's "out of the box" shape is necessary -- in order to add different or better-defined contours in the face and/or body specifically to achieve a realistic look?

I'm sure you have plenty to do.  But if/when you can make the time to respond, it would be much appreciated.
You've probably figured out already that I tend to be pretty keen on understanding thoroughly and specifically WHY things are done, as much as (and often more than) the HOW they are done (although that sure can help, too).
Best ...

Oh, forgot to mention these are a mix of characters.  The male is Elosolus for Genesis 3 Male by @DarwinsMishap.  The girl on the left is FW Rebekah for Victoria 8.  And, the girl on the right is FW Phoenix HD fo Victoria 7.  Both of the girls are by Fred Wrinkler Art.  I used all of them as stock character almost straight out of the box.  I did have to tweak some surface settings on Rebeka, though, as her lip cover gave me some specular fits.

As usual for me, rendered in Iray and post in Gimp.

After several hours and 23 attempts ...

Would love to know the Character, Skin, and head-Hair used for this image -- and perhaps especially how you got the look in the Sclera of the eyes.

All of this seems quite photo-realistic, and that quality is something we're working hard to make "just second nature" to our work.

Thank you, Will! :) The hair is Tears Hair with my own hair shader settings. The character is a morph I made in ZBrush that I'm submitting to Daz once I get her textures done (not the textures shown). The textures shown are Victoria 8's textures with her default settings except I bumped her SubD up to 3. The key to getting V8's default skin settings to look better is the lighting and render settings: 

Be warned, while those settings make V8's skin look good (with Daz's default "Ruins" HDR) you'll have to adjust the settings for other character's skin (particularly the White Point). And those settings definitely increase render times.

Yes, oops, that's what she meant.  I use the Reset and reload just the Victoria 4.2 each time. (I edited my reply and put the Reset in there.)  I thought she meant after everything was done (transferred) was it necessary to shut down the computer to get the stuff to show up in the Shaping pane (to test the new morphs.) So  that's a different question I asked, is there a way to refresh that Shaping pane without closing Studio?

Ok that's really subtle.. The character Im working on has very dark, reflective skin... So I feel like it may be worth it.

This is the morph I'm using. Can both the HD add-on and this product be used together? 

https://www.daz3d.com/jazmine-hd-for-victoria-7

Hey!!

Just wondering.. will the HD Add-on make my characters that use Victoria 7 more realistic and detailed?

I'm trying to get more dimension and texture to one of my characters skin that uses Victoria as a base. Will this help me at all?

If anyone can explain or show exactly what it does would be extremely grateful!

Cameron

But Victoria 1 and Victoria 2 were essentially the same figure - Victroia 2 was pretty much a morph expansion for 1, plus the addition of a second figure able to wear clothing for the Poser Female (Posette).

Olympia 8 got an update today. The eyebrow problem has been (mostly) corrected. The file is no longer calling the Victoria 8 Eyebrows UV set. It still has the ID for Victoria 8 Eyebrows, but I don't think the ID matters. Someone who doesn't have Victoria 8 will need to check to see if there's any remaining problem.

It will probably say "If you're taking the time to translate this you seriously have WAAAAAY too much time on your hands." 

I keep making the same mistake when I stop GenXing for a few days. I load up the morphs and then try to apply the material preset directly after that, forgetting I need to apply the V4 UV first (Caymen's Legacy UVs For Genesis 3 Volume 2: Victoria 4)  So I keep clicking and wondering why nothing happens. That's why I have to make lists/steps and go back to them (hence the tutorial I did for GenX and the subsequent post on applying UVs- had I bothered to read THAT one I wouldn't have been so DUH.) 

Working on the Rendo stuff again, converting to G3F my V4's, it's MRL Andromeda. I am using Shantal Hair, and have to say I didn't really find a way to widen the thin strands which left a rather stringy left section. I went to WIND and that bunched them up by using either Swirl left or right- but it still leaves a pretty thin strand leading down to it. So it frankly IMO doesn't make sense- you don't have thin strands leading to larger sections of hair that suddenly expand. You can see it in the promos too but in the promos, the hair looks a lot thicker than mine from this angle. (Which makes me wonder if I'm missing something.) 

I also don't like the squared ends of some of the strands (look at the ones out in the air on our right. I did apply a smoothing modifier too.) One thing I do like about the hair overall is the various sections, it's nice to have layered hair. And as usual, there are a lot of morphs in the EJ hair.

I really like the base G8F.  V8 is a bit on the masculine side...still a good character, just not what I consider a successor for Victoria.  Of course, I felt the same about Aiko 7.  She went from being an anime style teenish character to just a sort of exaggerated realistic female.  I guess it's a lot like the car companies do...just retain the name even if the model is entirely different.

 

realistic female

realistic

:|

I think you missed my point.  But, yours is well taken.  In your render, she does look more like the old Aiko.  However, in most of the promo renders, she just looks like a somewhat stylized figure - more on the realistic side than the obviously anime style of Aiko 4. 

I really like the base G8F.  V8 is a bit on the masculine side...still a good character, just not what I consider a successor for Victoria.  Of course, I felt the same about Aiko 7.  She went from being an anime style teenish character to just a sort of exaggerated realistic female.  I guess it's a lot like the car companies do...just retain the name even if the model is entirely different.

 

realistic female

realistic

:|

I don't start from scratch; I start with the basic file structure DAZ already uses. It goes: My DAZ 3D Library/Animals (/Environments) (/Light Presets) (/People) (/Props) (Render Presets) (/Shader Presets) etc. There are others in there too, but DIM will install all content in that directory. But it will do so in the way that the vendors packaged it, and therein lies the rub. Most vendors try to do things more or less the same way. Some don't. Others try but fall short. Others do it the way the've always done it since Poser was new, before DAZ spun off on its own. If the Vendor misspells a directory like People/Genesis 3 Female(s) instead of the proper Genesis 3 Female, then DIM will create the parallel directory just like it was told. And then you, the user, have to know that if you're looking for this specific item, it'll be in its own misspelled file path. It happens. Plus, vendors add many layers of unnecessary subdirectories. For example, they tend to organize their packages by Vendor name so that all their products are together. It makes perfect sense if you're a vendor - but it doesn't work for me as a user. If I'm looking for a clothing outfit, I expect to find it under the name of the clothing outfit, not under the name of the vendor that I might or might not have noticed when I bought it. So instead of My DAZ 3D Library/People/Genesis 3 Female/Clothing/Vendor/Clothing Item/Materials/Iray (and possibly other extra subdirectories like Props with ITS own Materials folder with nothing but Iray and 3Delight folders in THAT), I simplify it. My DAZ 3D Library/People/Genesis 3 Female/Clothing/Clothing Item Vendor Name File Type (if obj or cr2 or pp2)/Iray. I do the same for all the directories I use, like /Environments and /Shader Presets (which is the same as the older /Shaders, so I combined the two). /Props was particularly cumbersome. And yes, I had to reconstruct my entire library for that to work. A few days of effort for me, but you know what? I haven't lost ANYTHING since. Not once. Whereas before, I never knew where even to LOOK. And Smart Content was no help. Frustrating in the extreme. 

I also didn't know, that half the things I was accumulating were either obsolete but still importable (like .cr2), incompatible with DAZ (like .3ds), designed for obsolete figures like Dawn, Dusk, and Victoria 4, or usable by import only (like .obj). No wonder I couldn't find anything. But not having that problem every time I go looking for a prop I know I have but can't find allows me time to learn how to use DAZ for real. And that's worth a lot. Does that make sense?

He's already out!

Haha! Exactly what I was thinking. Pretty disappointed (so far) with the 8 female. Waay to masculine for my liking but will be interested to see what the developers do to enhance.

I really like the base G8F.  V8 is a bit on the masculine side...still a good character, just not what I consider a successor for Victoria.  Of course, I felt the same about Aiko 7.  She went from being an anime style teenish character to just a sort of exaggerated realistic female.  I guess it's a lot like the car companies do...just retain the name even if the model is entirely different.

Which hair are they using there? There are some hairs in the notes but not this one.

https://www.daz3d.com/gwennili-hd-for-victoria-7