Hey there Guys,

I'm searching for a product to highlight / add details to Hands/ Feet like real visible Bones (sorry, my english skills are not that far improved). I'm new to DAZ3d and just do it for fun or little Projects for my friends that don't need much knowlege. But here is the thing. Most of the Time I render a figure they look kind of flat or wax like in the areas of Hands, Feet and Rips ( at least, that are the Parts that annoy me the most). I use most of the time Genesis 3 or 8 Models. I tryed Killer Legs for Gen3 Female to look if this helps me, but I really don't see a big improvement.  I just found a morph for Victoria 4 (left side of the attached file) where I can highlight the Bones, on the feet/Hand/Rips area, very nicely. The right one is Gen3 Female with Killer Legs Morph and Sub Div. settings to the Max. The Downside ist, that I don't work with Victoria 4, so the moprh isn't helping a lot, since I can only use the Morph through Poser. Or is there a way to use Poser Morphs on normal Genesis 3 Figures? I found this item on DAZ Store https://www.daz3d.com/beauty-fingers-and-toes but don't want to blow my money on something that won't help me at all. I looked through the forum here but the already open / answered Topics leve me just as puzzled as I was before. Maybe some got the knowlege to help me out :-)

Thanks in advance

The more I see of Penny the more I think she is a better Victoria 8 than Victoria 8 is.  Guess I have to wish list her.

these are my g8 asian related females got several in the other generations too

https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/563861

Pinup 1129pm150418

Description

Michiko, Michiko (alt version), Minami, Pei, Onishi, Izanami, Uki, Aiko

Made with...

• Vertigo Ponytail for Genesis 8 Female(s)
• Voss Hair for Genesis 3 & 8 Female(s)
• Surfer Outfit and Surfboard for Teen Josie 8
• Short Pigtails for Genesis 3 and 8 Female(s)
• Cady Hair for Genesis 3 & 8 Female(s)
• Izanami for Genesis 3 and 8 Female
• Pei and Pei Suit for Genesis 8 Female
• UltraHD IRAY HDRI With DOF - Seaside Resort
• Michiko HD for Genesis 8 Female
• Minami HD and Minami Hair for Genesis 8 Female(s)
• HP Uki for Genesis 8 Female
• PS Onishi for Genesis 8 Female & Victoria 8
• Aiko 8
• Paige Hair for Genesis 8 Female(s)
• Wild Wind Hair for Genesis 8 Female(s)
• Starlette Hair for Genesis 3 and 8 Female(s)
• 

I have to say I hate today’s sale and I start to hate how I’m treated by DAZ. Here’s G3/V7, now buy a lot of extras to be able to use it. Here’s G8/V8, buy the extras again. All OK, but today’s Victoria for Victoria and Olympia for Olympia products are nothing less then an offense. I liked old O7 better than O8 for example, I own both O7 and O8 Pro Bundles. Now to use the O7 shape on O8, DAZ has the guts to offer me a product for $11 even after discount. That is a joke. I’ve spent a fortune on G3, I spent another fortune to embrace G8. My decision both times. But I would have expected that products like that are just added to the libraries of owners of both generations. 

It's a time vs money thing. There are tutorials out there to create your own V7 shape (or any G3 character) for free. It's time consuming and a PITA but free. Some people would rather spend $11 than doing that I guess. I do think it would be nice of Daz to give all owners of V7 the shape for free though, or at least a substantial discounrt. We are only getting a shape while newbies are getting all the skins plus the shape for the same price...

Agreed. I don't mind these products, they are a convenience, but they don't interest me at their current price point. I picked up the Aiko 7 to Aiko 8 when it was super cheap and am happy with that one. I'd buy more of them if they were under $5.

Looking for recommendation of what you think the best current G8 Asain morphs and skins are (they can be separate).

My dial spun character. :) 

  

 Sorry, I couldn't resist. lol 

Her base morph is Rarestone's Minami - but she's been heavily modified with Rarestone's Face Morphs, a few of Thorne's morphs, and some morphs of my own. Her brows are fibermesh and her skin textures are Victoria 7's (with minor modification to remove the brows) with Altern8 settings applied.

While she's been heavily modified, I think that Minami is an EXCELLENT base character for creating East Asain characters. :)

she looks great 

Great comparison.  I think that it definitely shows these four models are more alike than they are different.  I'm assuming that you're using each one's own texture.  That said, I do find Penny to be the most attractive of the 4.  So, the slight variances do matter.  If I were to choose one character for my runtime it would be Penny.  However, I'd also pick Victoria for the simple reason that she has the most other characters created from her base.

All in all, I'm still interested in Penny...just not sure it's a must have sort of purchase at the moment.  The pro pack is only of interest because of the freebies and specials.  But, I'm still not ready to part with my cash...especially if Mei Lin might be right around the corner.  Let's just hope Mei Lin doesn't turn out to be V8 with slanted eyes and lighter skin...LOL

Swapping bases (and I do) is rediculously easy.

Some look very close to being the same. But...

If you start comparing real people, with who's skin is the same (same amount of sun tan and/or pigmentation, they have exactly the same hair style and colour, under exactly the same lighting, I think we'd be surprised how many looked remarkably similar.

One of the big differences would be the skin damage, or wear-and-tear; where smoking, age, drinking and their general health would have an affect.

You're making a couple of really good points here:

1. A lot of real world people look mostly the same.  

So, why buy so many of these similar base characters?  Changing hair style and color along with skintone could be enough to have all the similar but different characters we need.

2. Big differences come from skin damage...etc.

This is something I think many people on the forums have been asking for: more real world looking textures...especially on faces and on bodies where the wear and tear would make that unique look.

I'm not arguing...I'm agreeing with you.  :)

I guess I'm saying, I already own Charlotte and Vicky.  Does it really add that much to my runtime to also include Stephanie, Penny, and Olympia.  In generation 7, I would have said, "yes."  I could easily differentiate O7 from V7.  I'm just not seeing it in generation 8.  Some of the only reason that I buy a similar base character is if I really want one of the spinoff characters.  But, that always kind of irks me that I have to own one character derivative of the base G8 in order to have the character that I really want.  Personally, I believe that all derivative characters that require an additional base character to work, should be sold as an upgrade...maybe $5.  That way, it's actually a bargain to buy the derivatives rather than feeling like you've been tapped twice.  I will say that the recent sales of DO addon characters have been a reasonably priced.  So, if I happen to like one of them, I might be inclined to go for the package deal.

Alright, here are all of them together. Victoria, Stephanie, Olympia, Penny. These are sisters, right? Right? Especially Vicky and Olympia in that top row.

But regardless of how you feel about that, get a load of their expressions, specifically, how their expressions differ. Really specifically, how both Victoria and Olympia in the top row have kind of puckered lips with the corners of their mouths drawn together, and Stephanie and Penny don't, and how in the second row Stephanie and Olympia have the corners of their mouths drawn up way further than Victoria does, and how Penny almost has her whole mouth pulled up to the point she kind of looks frightened instead of happy. There are a bunch of other little differences too.

I always thought until now that the custom expression correction morphs that came with each character were just minor tweaks to make sure the new morph didn't mess up the base expression. But they're not. They actually make a lot of the expressions different for each girl, so they kind of have their own personality. If you dial out Olympia's smile correction morph for example, her smile goes back to looking a lot like Victoria's. I thought that was pretty neat.

They can be considered sisters for sure, not just because of their looks, but because they belong to the same generation.

Great comparison.  I think that it definitely shows these four models are more alike than they are different.  I'm assuming that you're using each one's own texture.  That said, I do find Penny to be the most attractive of the 4.  So, the slight variances do matter.  If I were to choose one character for my runtime it would be Penny.  However, I'd also pick Victoria for the simple reason that she has the most other characters created from her base.

All in all, I'm still interested in Penny...just not sure it's a must have sort of purchase at the moment.  The pro pack is only of interest because of the freebies and specials.  But, I'm still not ready to part with my cash...especially if Mei Lin might be right around the corner.  Let's just hope Mei Lin doesn't turn out to be V8 with slanted eyes and lighter skin...LOL

Swapping bases (and I do) is rediculously easy.

Some look very close to being the same. But...

If you start comparing real people, with who's skin is the same (same amount of sun tan and/or pigmentation, they have exactly the same hair style and colour, under exactly the same lighting, I think we'd be surprised how many looked remarkably similar.

One of the big differences would be the skin damage, or wear-and-tear; where smoking, age, drinking and their general health would have an affect.

Great comparison.  I think that it definitely shows these four models are more alike than they are different.  I'm assuming that you're using each one's own texture.  That said, I do find Penny to be the most attractive of the 4.  So, the slight variances do matter.  If I were to choose one character for my runtime it would be Penny.  However, I'd also pick Victoria for the simple reason that she has the most other characters created from her base.

All in all, I'm still interested in Penny...just not sure it's a must have sort of purchase at the moment.  The pro pack is only of interest because of the freebies and specials.  But, I'm still not ready to part with my cash...especially if Mei Lin might be right around the corner.  Let's just hope Mei Lin doesn't turn out to be V8 with slanted eyes and lighter skin...LOL

I have to say I hate today’s sale and I start to hate how I’m treated by DAZ. Here’s G3/V7, now buy a lot of extras to be able to use it. Here’s G8/V8, buy the extras again. All OK, but today’s Victoria for Victoria and Olympia for Olympia products are nothing less then an offense. I liked old O7 better than O8 for example, I own both O7 and O8 Pro Bundles. Now to use the O7 shape on O8, DAZ has the guts to offer me a product for $11 even after discount. That is a joke. I’ve spent a fortune on G3, I spent another fortune to embrace G8. My decision both times. But I would have expected that products like that are just added to the libraries of owners of both generations. 

It's a time vs money thing. There are tutorials out there to create your own V7 shape (or any G3 character) for free. It's time consuming and a PITA but free. Some people would rather spend $11 than doing that I guess. I do think it would be nice of Daz to give all owners of V7 the shape for free though, or at least a substantial discounrt. We are only getting a shape while newbies are getting all the skins plus the shape for the same price...

I have to say I hate today’s sale and I start to hate how I’m treated by DAZ. Here’s G3/V7, now buy a lot of extras to be able to use it. Here’s G8/V8, buy the extras again. All OK, but today’s Victoria for Victoria and Olympia for Olympia products are nothing less then an offense. I liked old O7 better than O8 for example, I own both O7 and O8 Pro Bundles. Now to use the O7 shape on O8, DAZ has the guts to offer me a product for $11 even after discount. That is a joke. I’ve spent a fortune on G3, I spent another fortune to embrace G8. My decision both times. But I would have expected that products like that are just added to the libraries of owners of both generations. 

Aiko3

i still using Hiro3, V3, David3, Hiro4,the She Freak4 incarnation of V4..

if i could use the mil3 textures on Genesis 3, I would prolly not use the Mil3 meshes anymore. converted without it looking ridiculous.

Actually, you CAN use the textures for the mil3 females on Genesis 3  https://www.daz3d.com/legacy-uvs-for-genesis-3-special-edition-victoria-3 ; No male version yet, but hopefully soon.  :) 

Here is my quick render test of V8, S8,Olympia 8 with Addy's Pepper texture (I LOVE Addy's characters and her textures can make almost any character look good,) I was not thrilled with V8 when I first saw her, but she looks a lot better with Pepper's skin & make up.I don't own Penny.

They clearly look very different BUT they all have very small deep-set close-set eyes and angular features which is why so many people find them unattractive and masculine. My bet is that they were created by a male. A female is more used to femine features and really learns about them as she applies her own makeup...

Also I think their original makeup must have been created by a male. Personally I think women are much better at creating female characters. I could be wrong. Maybe they were created by a female, but I doubt it.

 

Victoria 8

Steph 8

Olympia 8

This time I took Steph 8 at 100% and made a few quick dial spins in less than 30 seconds, and now she looks more feminine! Then I kept thosesame dials and switched to Olympia 8 at 100% and she looks better too. Thats why I care less about the character in a pro bundle and care more about what's in the actual bundle. If I had liked more of Penny 8's bundle and didn't already have the free bundles offered, I would have purchased the bundle. These new morphs took 30 second to do, and when you have hundreds of morphs, it really doesn't matter what the base character looks like. You can put on a different skin, then spin some dials, now she's Black or Asian or Hispanic or even a male if you start with Stephanie 8 LOL.  I agree there's nothing special about Penny 8 but if you like the bundle and can get two free bundles, why not get it? All characters are EASILY changed!

Stephanie 8 "Feminized"

Olympia 8 "Feminized" - Same morphs as above

I think chin clefts are considered a more masculine trait but I don't have stats on that.

No, women have them too. I think maybe Jennifer Garner? They're more pronounced in men but I've seen women with them... it's weird, I didn't purposely add the chin cleft so maybe it happened by adding a bit of another character. I did those super fast, adding minuscule amounts of maybe three characters, then focused on the eyes, lips and jaw width. The cleft must have come from one of the characters I added. 

Here's a quick 10 second change, I think there might be a bit of a cleft in the original Steph 8 geometry. But in any case, when I first saw Stephanie 8, I thought yuck! But I liked her bundle and other perks enough to get her and with a few quick tweaks, she's someone I can use. The point is, that's what morphs are for and for me, the whole fun of Daz...

Here is my quick render test of V8, S8,Olympia 8 with Addy's Pepper texture (I LOVE Addy's characters and her textures can make almost any character look good,) I was not thrilled with V8 when I first saw her, but she looks a lot better with Pepper's skin & make up.I don't own Penny.

They clearly look very different BUT they all have very small deep-set close-set eyes and angular features which is why so many people find them unattractive and masculine. My bet is that they were created by a male. A female is more used to femine features and really learns about them as she applies her own makeup...

Also I think their original makeup must have been created by a male. Personally I think women are much better at creating female characters. I could be wrong. Maybe they were created by a female, but I doubt it.

 

Victoria 8

Steph 8

Olympia 8

This time I took Steph 8 at 100% and made a few quick dial spins in less than 30 seconds, and now she looks more feminine! Then I kept thosesame dials and switched to Olympia 8 at 100% and she looks better too. Thats why I care less about the character in a pro bundle and care more about what's in the actual bundle. If I had liked more of Penny 8's bundle and didn't already have the free bundles offered, I would have purchased the bundle. These new morphs took 30 second to do, and when you have hundreds of morphs, it really doesn't matter what the base character looks like. You can put on a different skin, then spin some dials, now she's Black or Asian or Hispanic or even a male if you start with Stephanie 8 LOL.  I agree there's nothing special about Penny 8 but if you like the bundle and can get two free bundles, why not get it? All characters are EASILY changed!

Stephanie 8 "Feminized"

Olympia 8 "Feminized" - Same morphs as above

I think chin clefts are considered a more masculine trait but I don't have stats on that. I looked it up, men's are more prominent, since they have bigger jaws and all. Women's chins are smaller and rounder. Those articles are speaking 'in general'.

Here is my quick render test of V8, S8,Olympia 8 with Addy's Pepper texture (I LOVE Addy's characters and her textures can make almost any character look good,) I was not thrilled with V8 when I first saw her, but she looks a lot better with Pepper's skin & make up.I don't own Penny.

They clearly look very different BUT they all have very small deep-set close-set eyes and angular features which is why so many people find them unattractive and masculine. My bet is that they were created by a male. A female is more used to femine features and really learns about them as she applies her own makeup...

Also I think their original makeup must have been created by a male. Personally I think women are much better at creating female characters. I could be wrong. Maybe they were created by a female, but I doubt it.

 

Victoria 8

Steph 8

Olympia 8

This time I took Steph 8 at 100% and made a few quick dial spins in less than 30 seconds, and now she looks more feminine! Then I kept thosesame dials and switched to Olympia 8 at 100% and she looks better too. Thats why I care less about the character in a pro bundle and care more about what's in the actual bundle. If I had liked more of Penny 8's bundle and didn't already have the free bundles offered, I would have purchased the bundle. These new morphs took 30 second to do, and when you have hundreds of morphs, it really doesn't matter what the base character looks like. You can put on a different skin, then spin some dials, now she's Black or Asian or Hispanic or even a male if you start with Stephanie 8 LOL.  I agree there's nothing special about Penny 8 but if you like the bundle and can get two free bundles, why not get it? All characters are EASILY changed!

Stephanie 8 "Feminized"

Olympia 8 "Feminized" - Same morphs as above

Here is my quick render test of V8, S8,Olympia 8 with Addy's Pepper texture (I LOVE Addy's characters and her textures can make almost any character look good,) I was not thrilled with V8 when I first saw her, but she looks a lot better with Pepper's skin & make up.I don't own Penny.

They clearly look very different BUT they all have very small deep-set close-set eyes and angular features which is why so many people find them unattractive and masculine. My bet is that they were created by a male. A female is more used to femine features and really learns about them as she applies her own makeup...

Also I think their original makeup must have been created by a male. Personally I think women are much better at creating female characters. I could be wrong. Maybe they were created by a female, but I doubt it.

Victoria 8

Steph 8

Olympia 8

Alright, here are all of them together. Victoria, Stephanie, Olympia, Penny. These are sisters, right? Right? Especially Vicky and Olympia in that top row.

But regardless of how you feel about that, get a load of their expressions, specifically, how their expressions differ. Really specifically, how both Victoria and Olympia in the top row have kind of puckered lips with the corners of their mouths drawn together, and Stephanie and Penny don't, and how in the second row Stephanie and Olympia have the corners of their mouths drawn up way further than Victoria does, and how Penny almost has her whole mouth pulled up to the point she kind of looks frightened instead of happy. There are a bunch of other little differences too.

I always thought until now that the custom expression correction morphs that came with each character were just minor tweaks to make sure the new morph didn't mess up the base expression. But they're not. They actually make a lot of the expressions different for each girl, so they kind of have their own personality. If you dial out Olympia's smile correction morph for example, her smile goes back to looking a lot like Victoria's. I thought that was pretty neat.

Interesting: I think...

!)  the 2nd row looks angry or frightened and not smiling.

2) I see few geometry differences, and there are a few that aren't so minor but I get the feeling these models are made 'not to be criticized' like some players 'play not to loose'. OK, artists are sensitive. They are all good, mind you, but seeing these I have to agree they do look too similar. Generically middle of the road tans, same generically pretty face structure, the limitations of the face rig (but yet which is already still much improved), and the 'iray render look' all conspire to make these models look too much alike. Bottom line I wouldn't be comfortable saying which model is which and couldn't. I feel Penny gives the most 'naturally beautiful look' although it's not substantially different from the others.

If I'm a buyer that needs a lot of variance in my 3D female models for say, a proof of concept for some fashionable clothing or a graphic novel, then I'm not using these as-is. The geometry variance for DAZ Original models in G8 needs stepped up quite a bit. LOL, well, only if the sales aren't there. If the sales are their count on more of the same. Example, a male and a female of Darwin's Mishap's would of made excellent DOs (catch there being perhaps he is not interesting in buyouts). Anyway, just doing random in FaceGen and exporting and then morphing the body to type will get more daring geometry varience than DOs have.

Alright, here are all of them together. Victoria, Stephanie, Olympia, Penny. These are sisters, right? Right? Especially Vicky and Olympia in that top row.

But regardless of how you feel about that, get a load of their expressions, specifically, how their expressions differ. Really specifically, how both Victoria and Olympia in the top row have kind of puckered lips with the corners of their mouths drawn together, and Stephanie and Penny don't, and how in the second row Stephanie and Olympia have the corners of their mouths drawn up way further than Victoria does, and how Penny almost has her whole mouth pulled up to the point she kind of looks frightened instead of happy. There are a bunch of other little differences too.

I always thought until now that the custom expression correction morphs that came with each character were just minor tweaks to make sure the new morph didn't mess up the base expression. But they're not. They actually make a lot of the expressions different for each girl, so they kind of have their own personality. If you dial out Olympia's smile correction morph for example, her smile goes back to looking a lot like Victoria's. I thought that was pretty neat.

Looking for recommendation of what you think the best current G8 Asain morphs and skins are (they can be separate).

My dial spun character. :) 

 Sorry, I couldn't resist. lol 

Her base morph is Rarestone's Minami - but she's been heavily modified with Rarestone's Face Morphs, a few of Thorne's morphs, and some morphs of my own. Her brows are fibermesh and her skin textures are Victoria 7's (with minor modification to remove the brows) with Altern8 settings applied.

While she's been heavily modified, I think that Minami is an EXCELLENT base character for creating East Asain characters. :)

It's probably the HD character (doesn't have to be Victoria, any Genesis HD figure will do this). Remember that for every bump of the SubD parameter, which controls how well you will see the HD detail, the mesh will need four times the memory in your graphics card. It doesn't take much of this to eat up all your card's memory and drop back to CPU rendering. Especially with an older card like a 9-series, which I don't think can have more than 4GB of memory.