pjzanca said:

that naming convention may be different from model to model and from individual content creators, and in the end you're still going to have to tinker with and tweak your iray shaders anyway. reviewing your original post, this is what happened in the first place (you got a model that for whatever reason had a different set of obj import/export minutiae from what you were used to). I don't want to just keep harping on this but imo this labor of manually editing .mtl files is super unproductive, when you have the option of using a much less idiosyncratic import/export.

I don't mind the harping, but you're actually starting from a false premise.

Almost all of the KitBash models are named consistently. So it doesn't change from model to model. Even just editing a single MTL file is easier than the individual click and find that DS requires to change each channel map.

Every Kitbash texture is named consistently; Set_Type_Subtype_MapType. so MM_MetalGray_BaseColor, etc.

It's much easier than the typical Blue, NotQuiteBlue, SortofBlue guessing game that a lot of image maps are named.

that naming convention may be different from model to model and from individual content creators, and in the end you're still going to have to tinker with and tweak your iray shaders anyway. reviewing your original post, this is what happened in the first place (you got a model that for whatever reason had a different set of obj import/export minutiae from what you were used to). I don't want to just keep harping on this but imo this labor of manually editing .mtl files is super unproductive, when you have the option of using a much less idiosyncratic import/export.

Doc Acme said:

Notice how the mtl uses \\ to delineate file names.  In a text editor I did a simple search and replace, flipped the \\ to // and I could then import with the mapping assigned.

Here I am, falling down the rabbit hole of DS technical issues again...

I took your advice and editted the MTL file to change the \\ to //, but that made no difference as (for the most part) DS was finding the textures. (It probably has something to do with where I unzipped the package.)

However I noticed that DS wasn't seeing most of the textures. And the Normal texture was still appearing in the Bump map.

Using your advice as a springboard I delved a little deeper into the MTL file and found:
map_Bump KB3DTextures\\KB3D_MIM_ConcretePolishBlocksGray_normal.png
map_Kd KB3DTextures\\KB3D_MIM_ConcretePolishBlocksGray_basecolor.png
map_Ns KB3DTextures\\KB3D_MIM_ConcretePolishBlocksGray_roughness.png
refl KB3DTextures\\KB3D_MIM_ConcretePolishBlocksGray_metallic.png

"Oh, there it is. This should be easy to fix." > Famous last words.

I tried doing the obvious map_Bump to map_Normal. Nothing.

Okay, DS calls it something other than Normal.

I went back into DS and created a simple cube. I added texture maps to the Normal, Diffuse Roughness, Bump, Metallicty, and Emissive channels. I then exported the cube as an OBJ.

I figured this was the easiest way to find out what DS was calling those channels.

I found that the only texture / channel that DS exported was the Base Color:
map_Kd ./Maps/KB3D_MIM_AsphaltRoofDBlue_basecolor.png

WTF? Is this normal? And if it can only export that one texture, then most likely its not capable of importing anything else either?

Yeah the only thing I've found that OBJ is necessary for is importing morph targets (and it's a bit baffling that DAZ has not added FBX morph target import tbh)

"SOURCE: The OBJs I have been importing come from KitBash3D. So no control over how they were exported."

Ah. I didn't want to confuse the issue with KitBash. I've picked up a couple In FBX\OBJ format. It uses both.

Notice how the mtl uses \\ to delineate file names.  In a text editor I did a simple search and replace, flipped the \\ to // and I could then import with the mapping assigned.

# Blender MTL File: 'KB3D_MidManhattan-Native.blend'
# Material Count: 61

newmtl KB3D_MIM_AsphaltRoofDBlue
Ns 225.000000
Ka 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000
Kd 0.800000 0.800000 0.800000
Ks 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000
Ke 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000
Ni 1.450000
d 1.000000
illum 2
map_Bump KB3DTextures\\KB3D_MIM_AsphaltRoofDBlue_normal.png
map_Kd KB3DTextures\\KB3D_MIM_AsphaltRoofDBlue_basecolor.png
map_Ns KB3DTextures\\KB3D_MIM_AsphaltRoofDBlue_roughness.png
refl KB3DTextures\\KB3D_MIM_AsphaltRoofDBlue_metallic.png

...

But those are still for node based materials and I don't think you get options for that.

Ugh. Okay. I was hoping that I wasn't right. A lot of questions in the recent messages, let me see if I can hit them all...

SOURCE: The OBJs I have been importing come from KitBash3D. So no control over how they were exported.

WHY: Previously I have been DLing the Blender files. I then correct the material references. Then export as a DAE. The models come thru... boring. I was thinking that it had something to do with the export, so I switched to trying the OBJs.

BORING?: I think this is a symptom of the reversed normals (I think). The "boring" factor appeared to have something to do with the materials. I would spend a lot of time tweaking the materials and had a modicum of success. Based on the OBJ experiments, I think this is the same "surfaces on the inside" issue. Where the Bump and Normal maps are being inverted and putting the surfaces on the inside. That makes them only barely visible.

SCREENSHOTS: I haven't been posting any because I didn't think there was much to be seen. And, honestly, I thought I might have been crazy in my observations; seeing issues where there weren't any. Or it was just operator error. Like an onion, it's gotten more complicated as I peeled.

FRUSTRATION: This is why I walked away from DS for a couple of months. It always seems like I sit down to work on something, then get wrapped up in non-productive technical issues. Friday started with the corrupted scene file that I spent hours on. I shifted over to do something that I thought would be simple; import my newest Kitbash files. That turned into a thing all its own.

Up until the "backwards text" I just assumed that it was my eye and I was being overly critical. Or that the models were just not suited for DS... The text issue clued me in on what I thought was going on.

st3ph3nstrang3 said:

Splatterbaby said:

st3ph3nstrang3 said:

I think I have an easier solution for you. What I do for HD morphs is, send over the Daz character at base resolution to Blender using Diffeomorphic. In the import dialogue you can choose to add JCMs, and then with your character in Blender, you can apply any other morphs you want. Now add a subdivision surface modifier to your character mesh. I've found a single subdivision is generally enough to smooth out any hard edges (around the ears for example), and you will get detail from any HD morphs as well. But the problem is you cannot apply modifiers to objects with shapekeys. Thankfully though there is actually an addon that will allow you to do just that. The way it works is, it runs through the list of all your morphs, subdivides each one, then replaces the current shapekey with the subdivided shapekey. This process can take quite awhile depending on how many morphs you have and the power of your CPU. For example, applying the subdivision modifier on a character with all JCMs, a bunch of body morphs and face morphs can take over 5 minutes. However, this saves you from having to manually apply the modifier for each shapekey, which would take even longer. Once the modifier is applied you can simply use the Blender to Unreal plugin (highly recommended) to send your character over.

The end result is a workflow that makes it easy to use HD morphs in Unreal, as well as a Blender file where you can create and maintain all of your morphs.

 

Hey thank you. This sounds actually really awesome. Then its all housed under blender and I can then still use sculpting etc. Ill give this a go. Im pretty uselss with using JCM,s though not even sure how to but Ill google it and see whhow to use them correctly to export. The problem is if there is a ton of morphs dont I have to add each and every one?  Thanks again:)

Don't worry too much about the JCMs. They are totally optional but can help with animations where for example a shoulder/thigh bone is bent at high degrees. These work silently in the background in Daz, so you never interact with them. In Unreal, they work by assigning a post-process animation blueprint to your character. The blueprint is given a range of degrees for a specific bone, for example the thigh, and defines how much to kick in the corrective morph. A leg with no bend will not have any JCM applied. A leg with a high degree of bend will dial up the JCM to maximum.

 

The Bridge comes with this post-process animation blueprint setup already. When you send a Daz character over using the bridge, the blueprint is automatically assigned. When bringing it in from Blender, it is not automatically assigned, however it will still work just fine as the bones are the same regardless if bringing your character in from Daz or Blender. So all you need to do is open the bridge plugin folder in the content browser, right click the JCM blueprint and retarget to your character. Then open the character mesh and assign the blueprint in asset details. Again, totally optional, you do not need to do this.

 

As for whether or not you have to add every morph, that depends. Diffeomorphic gives you the option to automatically select from a list of various morphs. Generally when importing a character using Diffeomorphic I will check off the box to automatically add JCMs. From that point, I add all other morphs using the import .dbz morph option in Diffeomorphic. This means I create a scene file in Daz with the shape I would like, and export the .dbz file as well. This may seem manual and like it takes a long time, but the alternative is searching through a list of morphs in Diffeomorphic that give little indication as to what they do. Creating each morph I would like manually helps me keep track of all of my morphs easier. For example, if I want a morph to make the character curvy, rather than importing 10 different morphs with names like "Character Waist Circumference" and trying to dial them all in, I simply create a single "Curvy" morph in Daz and add it as a shapekey in Blender.

 

Hope that made sense. Happy to answer any other questions you may have.

Legend. Thank you:) Ill give this a try and thank you Ill come back here after a few days of trial and error and ask. THanks again this is golden. Didnt know about Diffeomorphic until today. Seems awesome.

Splatterbaby said:

st3ph3nstrang3 said:

I think I have an easier solution for you. What I do for HD morphs is, send over the Daz character at base resolution to Blender using Diffeomorphic. In the import dialogue you can choose to add JCMs, and then with your character in Blender, you can apply any other morphs you want. Now add a subdivision surface modifier to your character mesh. I've found a single subdivision is generally enough to smooth out any hard edges (around the ears for example), and you will get detail from any HD morphs as well. But the problem is you cannot apply modifiers to objects with shapekeys. Thankfully though there is actually an addon that will allow you to do just that. The way it works is, it runs through the list of all your morphs, subdivides each one, then replaces the current shapekey with the subdivided shapekey. This process can take quite awhile depending on how many morphs you have and the power of your CPU. For example, applying the subdivision modifier on a character with all JCMs, a bunch of body morphs and face morphs can take over 5 minutes. However, this saves you from having to manually apply the modifier for each shapekey, which would take even longer. Once the modifier is applied you can simply use the Blender to Unreal plugin (highly recommended) to send your character over.

The end result is a workflow that makes it easy to use HD morphs in Unreal, as well as a Blender file where you can create and maintain all of your morphs.

 

Hey thank you. This sounds actually really awesome. Then its all housed under blender and I can then still use sculpting etc. Ill give this a go. Im pretty uselss with using JCM,s though not even sure how to but Ill google it and see whhow to use them correctly to export. The problem is if there is a ton of morphs dont I have to add each and every one?  Thanks again:)

Don't worry too much about the JCMs. They are totally optional but can help with animations where for example a shoulder/thigh bone is bent at high degrees. These work silently in the background in Daz, so you never interact with them. In Unreal, they work by assigning a post-process animation blueprint to your character. The blueprint is given a range of degrees for a specific bone, for example the thigh, and defines how much to kick in the corrective morph. A leg with no bend will not have any JCM applied. A leg with a high degree of bend will dial up the JCM to maximum.

The Bridge comes with this post-process animation blueprint setup already. When you send a Daz character over using the bridge, the blueprint is automatically assigned. When bringing it in from Blender, it is not automatically assigned, however it will still work just fine as the bones are the same regardless if bringing your character in from Daz or Blender. So all you need to do is open the bridge plugin folder in the content browser, right click the JCM blueprint and retarget to your character. Then open the character mesh and assign the blueprint in asset details. Again, totally optional, you do not need to do this.

As for whether or not you have to add every morph, that depends. Diffeomorphic gives you the option to automatically select from a list of various morphs. Generally when importing a character using Diffeomorphic I will check off the box to automatically add JCMs. From that point, I add all other morphs using the import .dbz morph option in Diffeomorphic. This means I create a scene file in Daz with the shape I would like, and export the .dbz file as well. This may seem manual and like it takes a long time, but the alternative is searching through a list of morphs in Diffeomorphic that give little indication as to what they do. Creating each morph I would like manually helps me keep track of all of my morphs easier. For example, if I want a morph to make the character curvy, rather than importing 10 different morphs with names like "Character Waist Circumference" and trying to dial them all in, I simply create a single "Curvy" morph in Daz and add it as a shapekey in Blender.

Hope that made sense. Happy to answer any other questions you may have.

st3ph3nstrang3 said:

I think I have an easier solution for you. What I do for HD morphs is, send over the Daz character at base resolution to Blender using Diffeomorphic. In the import dialogue you can choose to add JCMs, and then with your character in Blender, you can apply any other morphs you want. Now add a subdivision surface modifier to your character mesh. I've found a single subdivision is generally enough to smooth out any hard edges (around the ears for example), and you will get detail from any HD morphs as well. But the problem is you cannot apply modifiers to objects with shapekeys. Thankfully though there is actually an addon that will allow you to do just that. The way it works is, it runs through the list of all your morphs, subdivides each one, then replaces the current shapekey with the subdivided shapekey. This process can take quite awhile depending on how many morphs you have and the power of your CPU. For example, applying the subdivision modifier on a character with all JCMs, a bunch of body morphs and face morphs can take over 5 minutes. However, this saves you from having to manually apply the modifier for each shapekey, which would take even longer. Once the modifier is applied you can simply use the Blender to Unreal plugin (highly recommended) to send your character over.

The end result is a workflow that makes it easy to use HD morphs in Unreal, as well as a Blender file where you can create and maintain all of your morphs.

Hey thank you. This sounds actually really awesome. Then its all housed under blender and I can then still use sculpting etc. Ill give this a go. Im pretty uselss with using JCM,s though not even sure how to but Ill google it and see whhow to use them correctly to export. The problem is if there is a ton of morphs dont I have to add each and every one?  Thanks again:)

I think I have an easier solution for you. What I do for HD morphs is, send over the Daz character at base resolution to Blender using Diffeomorphic. In the import dialogue you can choose to add JCMs, and then with your character in Blender, you can apply any other morphs you want. Now add a subdivision surface modifier to your character mesh. I've found a single subdivision is generally enough to smooth out any hard edges (around the ears for example), and you will get detail from any HD morphs as well. But the problem is you cannot apply modifiers to objects with shapekeys. Thankfully though there is actually an addon that will allow you to do just that. The way it works is, it runs through the list of all your morphs, subdivides each one, then replaces the current shapekey with the subdivided shapekey. This process can take quite awhile depending on how many morphs you have and the power of your CPU. For example, applying the subdivision modifier on a character with all JCMs, a bunch of body morphs and face morphs can take over 5 minutes. However, this saves you from having to manually apply the modifier for each shapekey, which would take even longer. Once the modifier is applied you can simply use the Blender to Unreal plugin (highly recommended) to send your character over.

The end result is a workflow that makes it easy to use HD morphs in Unreal, as well as a Blender file where you can create and maintain all of your morphs.

Jason Galterio said:

Ugh. This is making my brain hurt... It all makes sense to what I have been seeing.

Let me see if this makes sense to anyone.

Essenentially, the OBJs have been importing "inside out." With no obvious reference, and not having made the original models, it was impossible to notice.

The symptom was that the models looked "plain" and "flat." I attributed this to texturing issues that I would have to manually resolve.

When I would apply DS shaders, things would look better, but never "great." This I attributed to low polygon models that needed custom maps.

The import process would come in one of two ways: inside out or inside out and flipped.

"Inside out" is actually over simplfying it as the models were also flipped, making the the inside out state seem normal because the textures were flipped. Kind of like if you have an inside out t-shirt, the design on it would look backwards. Except if you look in a mirror, then everything seems normal?

"Inside out and flipped" is how I noticed the issue because the text in the textures was mirrored. In essence, this was a half way correct import because the models weren't also flipped.

Now that I resolved the import configuration, the Normal and Bump maps are working properly. The models no longer look flat / low polygon.

Does this sound vaguely correct?

I'd say you've got your brain around it perfectly, especially the distinctions between inside out, flipped, and rotated.

Thats the Log file error I am getting.
2022-04-24 12:57:26.933 [INFO] :: Begin asset load (open): /Environments/Landscapes/UltraSceneryXT/Presets/USX Preset 02 Wildhorse.duf
2022-04-24 12:57:27.336 [INFO] :: *** Scene Cleared ***
2022-04-24 12:57:27.336 [INFO] :: Determining missing assets...
2022-04-24 12:57:27.341 [WARNING] :: Invalid node selection for "preset_properties" type.
2022-04-24 12:57:27.341 [INFO] :: Error loading asset: D:/Daz Central/Daz Assets/Applications/Data/DAZ 3D/My DAZ 3D Library/environments/landscapes/ultrasceneryxt/presets/usx preset 02 wildhorse.duf
2022-04-24 12:57:27.342 [INFO] ::     Operation failed
2022-04-24 12:57:27.398 [INFO] :: Unlocking viewport redraw...
2022-04-24 12:57:27.398 [INFO] :: Viewport redraw unlocked.
2022-04-24 13:01:12.120 [INFO] :: Prepare asset load (open): /Environments/Landscapes/UltraSceneryXT/Presets/USX Preset 06 Chilko.duf
2022-04-24 13:01:12.120 [INFO] :: Locking viewport redraw...
2022-04-24 13:01:12.120 [INFO] :: Viewport redraw locked.
2022-04-24 13:01:12.172 [INFO] :: Native format content directories: 4
2022-04-24 13:01:12.172 [INFO] :: Poser format content directories: 4
2022-04-24 13:01:12.173 [INFO] :: Other import format content directories: 0
2022-04-24 13:01:12.173 [INFO] :: Begin asset load (open): /Environments/Landscapes/UltraSceneryXT/Presets/USX Preset 06 Chilko.duf
2022-04-24 13:01:12.580 [INFO] :: *** Scene Cleared ***
2022-04-24 13:01:12.580 [INFO] :: Determining missing assets...
2022-04-24 13:01:12.586 [WARNING] :: Invalid node selection for "preset_properties" type.
2022-04-24 13:01:12.586 [INFO] :: Error loading asset: D:/Daz Central/Daz Assets/Applications/Data/DAZ 3D/My DAZ 3D Library/environments/landscapes/ultrasceneryxt/presets/usx preset 06 chilko.duf

@Singular3D Just to clarify. The purpose of diffeomorphic is to import daz assets, thus daz materials as well. It is certainly possible to get better shaders in blender, but they would not convert daz materials.

It sounds as if you're slowly pickin' the problem apart, but is there some reason you're not posting an image?

Those ARE called "Flipped Polys". Much easier to see that than decypher from just a description.

What program are you using to create the OBJs?  There are settings that you probably need check (or uncheck) before exporting.

Nor does Daz recognize all settings, or recognizes some defaults differently.

All packages do that.

Here's how Daz handles it's own OBJ creation. It exports OBJ's and can re-import w/o much issue.  Not sure if it was that way before; I'm usually only exporting out of Daz.

But there are other factors.  When an OBJ gets exported, an .mtl file gets written too.  They're just text files that give info for the mappig and map location. But, they can be in a different form that Daz won't recognize.  Here's a clip of the .mtl that Daz exports:

newmtl Face
d 1
Kd 1 1 1
map_Kd ./Maps/FWSAPercyFace_1001.jpg

newmtl Lips
d 1
Kd 1 1 1
map_Kd ./Maps/FWSAPercyFace_1001.jpg

:
:

And an .obj export from from another app:

newmtl Arms
Kd 1 1 1
Ke 0 0 0
Ka 1 1 1
Ks 0 0 0
Ns 0
Tr 0
d 1
Ni 0
Tf 1 1 1
map_Kd DAZ Exports/./Maps/FWSAPercyArms_1004.jpg

newmtl Cornea
Kd 1 1 1
Ke 0 0 0
Ka 1 1 1
Ks 0 0 0
Ns 0
Tr 0.005
d 0.995
Ni 0
Tf 1 1 1

:
:

And Daz won't recognize that structure for mapping so nothing gets assigned.

Is there a discord server or a more live active community behind this blender plug-in?

That said I'm trying to see if it's possible to preserve the GF8 skeleton/rig in blender on export/import.

There are no high-resolution characters, there are high-resolution morphs for the standard figures (which work by moving the virtual vertices created by the sub-division process). Does UE support SubD and multi-resolution morphs? it may as they are part of the Pixar OpenSubD system - if so you would need to aply SubD to the imported base in UE, then import the HD morph (probabyl from an unposed OBJ) using whatever route UE has - FBX does not, as far as I know, support this directly.

This doesn't have anything to do with the script.
As far as I know, Genesis 2 doesn't use UDIMs. Stacking the UVs on top of each other was the usual method back in the good old days. The UV placement is set in the base geometry. If it doesn't have UDIMs, it will not export UDIMs.

You could set up the UVs the way you want them, import them as an additional UV set for Genesis 2 and make sure those UVs are selected in the surfaces before you export. That *should* work (but I haven't tried it and it has been a long time since I last worked with G2).

There are a few things to be aware of when importing 3rd party models into DS.

First one is that by default DS has "back face lighting" turned on, this means that unless the textures have writing on them then most have no idea the mesh is "inside out", or that it's been "mirrored".

Second is don't be surprised if none of the import settings in DS load the model "correctly", the export settings from the original program can really mess things up in DS, which always means extra work for us to get the mesh looking right.
As an example I have a truck here, the MAX and Blender presets load the model inside out and mirror the mesh, the headlights are also pointing out the back or the scene when they should be pointing out the front. The other presets load the mesh right side out, but the headlights are pointing out the bottom of the scene. Then there's the scale, in the real world the truck is 6.2 meters in length, yet none of the presets come even close, they are either tiny or huge.
So I'm either looking at rotating the mesh, scaling it (up or down) and translating it, or in the case of the MAX and Blender presets using a -100% on one scale axis to un-mirror the mesh, and then scaling and translating the mesh.
I then have to export it as an OBJ to lock those changes into the mesh (use the DS preset), then clear the scene and import the new OBJ (again using the DS preset), before I can save it as an asset.

Easy enough for me as I do this sort of thing all the time, but for most it becomes an unwelcome headache.

Hi! Well I have a little problem. Sometimes when I try to import hair from daz to blender it doesnt work properly. It happenst on hairs with opiton that has ''show hair prewiev'' something like that. Other haris works fine. So I assume its something that I dont know. How can I import those hairs like strand based hairs. Idk even know what are they particle hairs?

Boojum the brown bunny said:

   HI Wendy, Yeay, this is Poser 11, not poser 12.   The mouse textures (and mouse whiskers and tail) are not on poser.   Just Daz3d.

 

    HI Richard.    File saves as Duf.  Poser doesn't have Duf as an import.    Save as another format, and  nothing else (clothes, etc) loads and fits properly.   and that takes more hours of debugging and struggling and not getting things done.

Sorry, I think I was getting confused with Dimension3D's importer script, and attemtping to follow the link for that throws a security warning for me.

Where are the .duf/.py/.cr2 files being placed when you create them from DS?

    Now my favorite 3d program to work with is Carrara (Shout out, Wendy) but It crashes whenever an unsupported genesis item/file gets loaded out of smart content.   Because smart content shows all the unsupported stuff that crashes Carrara.   So that just keeps getting worse the more things I have.   I havent' done art in over a year now becuase of the hours I have to spend not doing art.