Excellent info on the HD tool Male-M3dia!  The HD details would only show up at render time so if I render outside of DS in Octane I wouldnt get the benfits of the HD morphs anyway?  Just curious because I bought the HD morphs for my characters.  I can't seem to get my Normal or Displacements to show up in Octane for some reason.  Bump maps show up just fine.  

 

Thanks!

If the plugin is set up correctly, the HD detail should be passed to the renderer in octane. As far as displacements, you probably would have to increase subdivisions for your details to show in octane as well as the render doesn't subdivde like 3delight or firefly does. You have to increase subdivisions for iray and i believe luxrender as well.

I export with a SubD level of 2 out of DS and I add another SubD level in Octane.  I don't use the DS Octane plugin just the standalone.  I tested the normal map and displacement map using just a gloss or diffuse material and it shows up.  Since I use a specular material for my skin shader seems like only that material doesnt work correctly.  On another note I find adding detail like laugh lines to the face of G3 with just morphing the low rez polys in Zbrush you have to really exaggerate the morphs and get used to bringing polys closer together to make a deeper cut morph so it looks correct....takes a bit of getting used to.  Using dynamic SubD in Zbrush helps you get a better idea of what a low rez morph will look like. 

Exaggerating morphs is one of the low poly tricks for detail since subdivisions will smooth out detail so you have to pull out mesh a bit more. You can check the parameter dial for a HD morph to see what subd level it was created at. Some HD morphs are a 1 and some are at 3.

Excellent info on the HD tool Male-M3dia!  The HD details would only show up at render time so if I render outside of DS in Octane I wouldnt get the benfits of the HD morphs anyway?  Just curious because I bought the HD morphs for my characters.  I can't seem to get my Normal or Displacements to show up in Octane for some reason.  Bump maps show up just fine.  

 

Thanks!

If the plugin is set up correctly, the HD detail should be passed to the renderer in octane. As far as displacements, you probably would have to increase subdivisions for your details to show in octane as well as the render doesn't subdivde like 3delight or firefly does. You have to increase subdivisions for iray and i believe luxrender as well.

I export with a SubD level of 2 out of DS and I add another SubD level in Octane.  I don't use the DS Octane plugin just the standalone.  I tested the normal map and displacement map using just a gloss or diffuse material and it shows up.  Since I use a specular material for my skin shader seems like only that material doesnt work correctly.  On another note I find adding detail like laugh lines to the face of G3 with just morphing the low rez polys in Zbrush you have to really exaggerate the morphs and get used to bringing polys closer together to make a deeper cut morph so it looks correct....takes a bit of getting used to.  Using dynamic SubD in Zbrush helps you get a better idea of what a low rez morph will look like. 

Also you can preview the HD morph by setting the subdivision level on the figure, but that will slow your display to a crawl. I mentioned several times that you have to create your low poly morph first then do the details because of the morph projection issue. If you go straight to the high def morph and not do a lowpoly morph to help out, no clothes would fit as the clothing would go to the morph that can project to clothing. For example, if I didn't do a low poly base for my Jesse body shape, clothing would conform to the G3M base, making the clothing fit inside the area of the shape not on it because jesse is wider and shorter. The projection morph would give the rest of the information on how to fit that shape into clothing.

Hi,

In the middle of fixing some FBMs, I saw that the chest morphs that I did on the first try for the shirt, now deleted, cause I had JCMs issue and decided to modify the topology and start again, they have  appeared on this one!, but empty, so when I dial that morph (more exactly all breast shapes from 01 to 08) on G3F, Daz searchs for the "fixed by me" ones, wich are as I said, empty, they just make the breast poke through totally. I tried to fix them, but I cant, Daz shows something completely different from what I sculpt on Zbrush, so, I've tried to delete them with no avail.

I enter edit mode, delete all of them, resave the real morphed ones again, and in that screen, they're not there and either on the parameters tab, but as soon as I reload Daz, they are appear again, but still empty, so I have the same issue over and over again. How can I delete unwanted morph once and for all??

What do you mean? Is the mesh getting compressed even before posing, or is this the issue with bends stretching the mesh out weirdly? The latter should not be an issue with purchased morph sets as the bones have beena djusted to work with them - unless you are spawning new morphs rather than using them directly.

Yeah, bodysuits are a great way around a lot of this.

('this' being autofit problems generally)

Another tip: if you add a tiny bit of a dial on the figure, the dial will appear on clothing (you will have to Show Hidden). Then you can dial it in MORE, to create a different effect.

This is one way I try to get around the 'shrink wrap boobs' effect -- put Flatten or Breast gone morph a tiny bit, do it more on the body suit, then scale the body suit as appropriate, then fit clothing to the body suit.

 

I like this idea. Which bodysuit do you recommend having the best setup for doing this?

I know I am also waiting for the release to this....so I'm holding back on my spending until I get these little items because that's how DAZ rolls, throws out all kinds of sales at you and then wham hits you with a needy morph package. Leaving you to eat ramen noodles until next payday if you're lucky :) I think you can find the product for G2 in their Product Index and it will show the date it was released to give you an idea.But to navigate the index you need the product code to find it. 

A little update to questions - in general, Blender texture conversions work very well, but i found 2 main problems - the first is the genital texture maps, which cannot be converted via Blender baking, because there is no clones for Genesis 3 and Genesis 2 gens yet.

Ok, so on the gens converting. While there isn't specifically a clone for gens, if you export them while fitted to the character with the clone active, you will at least get the seams to line up. The interior topology is vastly different, so you'd have to do that by hand. The Map Transfer utility in DS won't work because you need to have both UVs available to transfer between on a single model.

The second is material and shader presets (DUF material files), where amount of surfaces and reference links to texture maps differ very much. But they need to be converted too to keep the desired look of character skins. How do you manage with all that?

I make new utility maps. Otherwise, you have to convert each type of map set one at a time. I've done that as well, and it's not so bad once you have the base figures set up. 

For gens, as I found, there exist a way of Map Transfer within DAZ Studio, but the only tutorial about this way I found on DeviantArt is a bit unclear for noobs - is there any illustrated or video tuts about DAZ Map transfer? Or there is any simpler way how to create gens texture in Photoshop etc? I made several attempts, but Hip surface on the torso and the gens don't fit (visible seams and color mismatching). I guess Seam Guides for Genesis 2 gens (Male and Female) would help, because a simple white template doesn't help much. Are there Seam Guides for Genesis 2 genitals?

There might be, but I doubt it. The genitals don't come with the base figures, only with the Pro packs for the adult morphs (Victoria, Michael, etc). 

As for ther second problem with DUF, it is not easier too, because DUF files are very hard to edit manually in any text editor - they contain shader info and a great bunch of reference links to maps, and these links mismatch too (G3 Eye Socket should be replaced with Lacrimals and EyeMoisture with EyeReflection - at least, these are best counterparts I could find or I am mistaken?) Is Dimension 3D DSON Editor capable to make such replacing surfaces faster and easier, or there is any other easier way, aside from struggling with text editors? What do you do with such mismatching surfaces, especially for eyes? I tested Genesis 3 Native Eyes with replaced G3M converted textures for irises - but on G3M with all shaders and presets eyes look much better.

Notepad++ is what I'd recommend for editing duf files in a text editor. I am not real familiar with Dimension 3D's editor, so I can't speak to its capabilities. I have my own shader presets that I've set up within DS, so I just use those.

And the third problem is textures made specially for IRAY - diffuse and bump maps look the same as for 3Delight, but specular maps look strange as if inverted and SSS maps sometimes gray. I don't use Iray and now switched to Reality 4, but sometimes it needs adjusting native 3Delight maps.  Do I need to convert Specular and SSS maps too via Blender or I'd better to remake them by myself from Diffuse? Are such Iray maps usable in Reality or 3Delight?

No idea about Reality. For 3Delight it just depends on how your shader is set up. You can convert the maps or make new ones. If you want things to look exactly as they are from the other model, convert every set of maps, copy over the shader. 

@nonesuch00 -> try the orginal cornea morph with 200 - 210%... this comes closest whitout a lot of fiddling...

however - it IS possible to come very close to a real eye.. without a concave iris (which looks great from the front but not from the sideview)..
Image sideview... FLAT but correct modeled iris and cornea on the upper eye

Great information Andy,

I agree with you that the eyes are Daz's greatest weakness at the moment, including the carncule. I am still very new as a PA (only one product coming out soon), but it seems like a worthwhile undertaking to try to create more realistic eyes. Thanks for all your research into this thus far.

-The Philosopher

Thank you all in sharing information and explaining.

I was not aware that the current limitations with the weight mapping on high resolution models go that far.

@ vertices count

The reason I prefer to use the term vertices when speaking about mesh sizes is that polygons could be either quads (4 edge points) or tris ( 3 edge points).

The number displayed by default in zbrush is points = vertices.

Richard allready explained how the vertices and polygon numbers are related.

- - -

@ the 4'357'308 vertices remark

The reason why I mention 4'357'308 vertices that often is because that would be the next reasonable quality jump that also does fit into VRAM by using 1888 MB for geometry.

Currently most high resolution morph products in the DAZ store may have been sculpted at 1'090'700 vertices.

- - -

@ why did I start this thread?

Every year I spend some weeks to catch up with new workflows in Zbrush.

I figured out that I can use the "project all" button to transfer any kind of detail from one mesh to the other.

The key is to mask those areas that should not be affected by the projection in order to prevent some random distortions.

 

What I now wanted to do is bring those details at 4'357'308 vertices back as morphs so I could animate them and use them for other figures as well.

But when I clicked GoZ I realized that only the details captured at the  lowest subdivision level of 17'418 vertices is brought back.

 

Using maps is not a solution when trying to animate.

I also wanted to save the morphs so I can dial them in fully or only partially for other Genesis 3 figures.

Therefore I was looking for another way to transfer the high resolution details of the morphs back into DAZ Studio.

That is when the question started: Why not work with more high resolution figures so you can bring morphs back at the original resolution level?

- - -

With the now available information I realize that at the current point in time with the available technology high vertice count figures will not solve enough issues to be considered an alternative.

The situation as a whole remains frustrating for those users who do have access to Zbrush and would like to use other more versatile workflows.

Hopefully in a not so far away future some new technologies will it make possible that we can work in more flexible ways with the licensed DAZ3D content in a DAZ Studio to Zbrush workflow.

- - -

I think the thing that also confuses people about HD is that you are still working with the low poly figure, and those details are added to the figure at render time... just like if you were using normal and displacement maps. When you render a frame for animation, all your maps, including the detail, will be displayed as the final render in the frame. Same thing happens with HD, which is why I say you still need to learn how to learn low poly sculping techniques. You have to have the low poly morph and the HD works in conjunction with that. Also using HD requires knowldege of another DAZ technology.. projection morphs. HD does not project into cloth so you need to learn how to make those morphs to work in conjunction. It's not just make a HD morph and you're set. You have to learn to use both, which is another reason why this tool isn't in the wild.

Thanks for checking it out. I found your method improved the mismatch I was getting on the anatomical elements and I think it looks much better than it did with using the transfer tool properly. I found I also had to apply that other texture with the gens to to the torso area. Initially it looked pretty bad, but this looks better. Thanks,

Oh, yes if you are not using the other texture set, then it is uggly. So the right steps are :

- Load Dave, apply the Iray torso material for anatomy

- Load the anatomy, apply the iray material for anatomy

- Convert or customize Dave skin using my product

- Once done, if necessary, use the transfer anatomy (normally it should work I just reproduced all the steps for warm and cold skin tone).

Let me know if it is enough for you Serene Night, or if you want me to work more on the subject (I have to be out for the evening, so tomorrow).

Ok more and more strange, I now close and open DS, reload Dave, its torso for genitalia, then genitalia iray mats. The mismatch is still here, but not as strong as before. Can you tell me if you see a mismatch initially too? But then if I use the converter and the anatomy transfer, then I have "the same" mismatch as when I just load it. Not less but not more.

Thanks for checking it out. I found your method improved the mismatch I was getting on the anatomical elements and I think it looks much better than it did with using the transfer tool properly. I found I also had to apply that other texture with the gens to to the torso area. Initially it looked pretty bad, but this looks better. Thanks,

OK, there might be specific cases of figure. I spent more time to see what is happening with Dave.

- Dave is using dedicated translucency color maps. If you starting with genitalia not using Iray uber (so nt with specific sss maps), then the base color will be used as the translucency maps. The material which is already on the genitalia before the transfer must, like the torso have dedicated translucency color maps. This must be the Iray material provided for Genitalia, not the 3Delight one. (I don't say you have done this, I just say this can be a cause of mismatch).

-Now here is what happening with Dave :  If I take the default Dave settings (I don't use any converter or transfer tool at all, I just use the product I just bought), and that I load Dave, with the provided Iray materials for torso with genitalia, plus the provided Iray materials for Genitalia, I see, even before the conversion, a "mismatch" between the torso and the genitals. This mistmatch is there initially and cannot be repaired by any conversion or transfer tool, if it is here it is here (of course I cannot share images here).  I had not remarked it before because I was not close enough to the figure.

I have been having trouble with the gens on gen 3 male.  I loaded the character Dave. Applied his gens applied daves gen texture. Then applied the smart converter with some warmth added. Although daves texture is there the warmth was not added and his gens appear default color and do not match

By default, the initial smart converter does not act on genitalia. What you do is : you convert, you tweak the figure the way you want, and when you are done, you use the transfer anatomy tool so that the genitalia becomes "like the rest of the body".

I have finally bought Dave. And I tested several set ups with it, I have never any material set up difference.

Here is what I did :

1. load dave and genitalia

2. used Smart converter on Dave, changed colors presets and translucency presets to be sure not to be on the default load.

3. Used transfer tool : when you used the !Mgrs Transfer Anatomy, normally you should have in yellow :

Genesis 3 Male Genitalia (top middle window),

Genitalia (bottom middle window)

4. and : Then you press : ADD SELECTED SURFACE TO LIST, in order to have in the selected Destination surfaces, the box at the right of the interface, "Genitalia (name of the figure)". 

5. Then you press "Confirm list and Proceed to transfer" the Genitalia surface must be present in the Destination surfaces box right of the interface for it to work.

Now normally this should match. I tested various skins presets (base color, glossy weights, translucency variations... ) on Dave, and each time it worked (well finally not totally, the skins settings are the same, but the render is not the same, see next post why). 

Normally it is a very robust script, but one never knows. On next post I check the initial skin setting (without conversion or transfer, as it is provided)

Thank you all in sharing information and explaining.

I was not aware that the current limitations with the weight mapping on high resolution models go that far.

@ vertices count

The reason I prefer to use the term vertices when speaking about mesh sizes is that polygons could be either quads (4 edge points) or tris ( 3 edge points).

The number displayed by default in zbrush is points = vertices.

Richard allready explained how the vertices and polygon numbers are related.

- - -

@ the 4'357'308 vertices remark

The reason why I mention 4'357'308 vertices that often is because that would be the next reasonable quality jump that also does fit into VRAM by using 1888 MB for geometry.

Currently most high resolution morph products in the DAZ store may have been sculpted at 1'090'700 vertices.

- - -

@ why did I start this thread?

Every year I spend some weeks to catch up with new workflows in Zbrush.

I figured out that I can use the "project all" button to transfer any kind of detail from one mesh to the other.

The key is to mask those areas that should not be affected by the projection in order to prevent some random distortions.

What I now wanted to do is bring those details at 4'357'308 vertices back as morphs so I could animate them and use them for other figures as well.

But when I clicked GoZ I realized that only the details captured at the  lowest subdivision level of 17'418 vertices is brought back.

Using maps is not a solution when trying to animate.

I also wanted to save the morphs so I can dial them in fully or only partially for other Genesis 3 figures.

Therefore I was looking for another way to transfer the high resolution details of the morphs back into DAZ Studio.

That is when the question started: Why not work with more high resolution figures so you can bring morphs back at the original resolution level?

- - -

With the now available information I realize that at the current point in time with the available technology high vertice count figures will not solve enough issues to be considered an alternative.

The situation as a whole remains frustrating for those users who do have access to Zbrush and would like to use other more versatile workflows.

Hopefully in a not so far away future some new technologies will it make possible that we can work in more flexible ways with the licensed DAZ3D content in a DAZ Studio to Zbrush workflow.

- - -

Adding new morphs does not create a new CR2 - the CR2 remains unchanged, the Create ExP Files tool creates a series of pz2 files that list all of the currently installed morph files in the \Runtime\Libraries\!DAZ\FigureName folder and the CR2 uses readscript to bring those master lists in.

A scene preset, or Spawn a moprh of morphs from the DForms, save as morph asset(s) and then use a shaping preset. The button to spawn a morph is in the DForm pane, once you have your morph you can delete the DForms then go to File>Save as>Support Assets>Moprh Asset (the author and product fields determine the sub-folders of \Data\DAZ 3D\Genesis whichever\Male\Morphs used to store the data).

Hello

From what I see, it seems that their is no textures on the genitals. Is that the case?

First you must apply on the genitals the material of the genitalia you have in your content for your current figure. Then you apply transfer utility.

So the steps are :

1. Load G3M + G3M Gens

2. Apply Genitals materials to genitals

3. Apply Iray Main converter to G3M

4. Apply transfer Utility : the transfer will transfer the settings of the skin to the genitals.

Your mistake is that you need to have a mapped material on the genitals;

The transfer utility will copy all the settings used for material of the torso of the figure to the material of the genitalia, but preserve all the image maps used for the genitalia. In your case, you had not loaded the genitalia material, so the genitalia surface had no color, bump, specular, etc, maps. So the transfer occured, but the maps slots were left empty. 

I just re-tested it and it works, the only thing is that I have not been able to find the G3M genitalia material on my computer, so I decided to use M7 instead, and no issue, but you have to load the genitalia material before the transfer. Then the transfer will ensure the material settings (except the maps) is the same on torso and genitalia in order to have a perfect matching between both.

Is it ok for you? Let me know if you still need help.

 

Thanks! Now the utility works fine :-)

A little update to questions - in general, Blender texture conversions work very well, but i found 2 main problems - the first is the genital texture maps, which cannot be converted via Blender baking, because there is no clones for Genesis 3 and Genesis 2 gens yet. The second is material and shader presets (DUF material files), where amount of surfaces and reference links to texture maps differ very much. But they need to be converted too to keep the desired look of character skins. How do you manage with all that?

For gens, as I found, there exist a way of Map Transfer within DAZ Studio, but the only tutorial about this way I found on DeviantArt is a bit unclear for noobs - is there any illustrated or video tuts about DAZ Map transfer? Or there is any simpler way how to create gens texture in Photoshop etc? I made several attempts, but Hip surface on the torso and the gens don't fit (visible seams and color mismatching). I guess Seam Guides for Genesis 2 gens (Male and Female) would help, because a simple white template doesn't help much. Are there Seam Guides for Genesis 2 genitals?

As for ther second problem with DUF, it is not easier too, because DUF files are very hard to edit manually in any text editor - they contain shader info and a great bunch of reference links to maps, and these links mismatch too (G3 Eye Socket should be replaced with Lacrimals and EyeMoisture with EyeReflection - at least, these are best counterparts I could find or I am mistaken?) Is Dimension 3D DSON Editor capable to make such replacing surfaces faster and easier, or there is any other easier way, aside from struggling with text editors? What do you do with such mismatching surfaces, especially for eyes? I tested Genesis 3 Native Eyes with replaced G3M converted textures for irises - but on G3M with all shaders and presets eyes look much better.

And the third problem is textures made specially for IRAY - diffuse and bump maps look the same as for 3Delight, but specular maps look strange as if inverted and SSS maps sometimes gray. I don't use Iray and now switched to Reality 4, but sometimes it needs adjusting native 3Delight maps.  Do I need to convert Specular and SSS maps too via Blender or I'd better to remake them by myself from Diffuse? Are such Iray maps usable in Reality or 3Delight?