Thanx for the replies. 
It isnt the Metadata import window, and all of the plugins are from DAZ.  I fired up Studio on my old box, which is running Windows 10 and it doesn't have that initial window.  I discovered a difference in the log files; the new machine lists after the plugins load:

2023-01-22 09:15:56.175 [WARNING] :: Error writing author data.

I have an author name in preferences, so why would it give this error?

Assuming your content is in the same location (D:/My DAZ 3D Library), you should be able to simply Re-Import Metadata from the Content DB Maintenance utility. This will add whatever metadata was available when the products were installed, plus any modifications you made, assuming you exported the UserData at some point. Select everything, including User Data and Accept. If you have a lot of products, it could take a while...

NotAnArtist said:

TheMysteryIsThePoint said:

Hi

First things first: Yes, definitely start your Blender Learning Journey now... it won't be a trivial task, but I am confident that any person who likes to animate more than they like to complain about the world and software that is in it not being exactly as they would wish it, will be able to master it. I compare it to learning Mandarin: It's hard, no doubt, but 1.4 billion people have, and I've never heard of a mute chinese guy who just could not do it. See you on the other side :)

It means you'll run the new plugin in DS, and with one click in Blender, just enough of the character will be imported into Blender in order to do animation, i.e. the armature and the base res mesh. There's a script to "retarget" animations from supported rigs, and another to export it back to DS. That's it. No FBX, BVH, or any other file format that doesn't know what a G8 is, no obscure settings to remember to set (read: forget to set). It just works.

I think there are two keys for why this works well: 1) Blender is using precisely the same armature as DS, so no foot sliding, etc., and 2) Quaternions are used exclusively, so no weird flips at extreme angles.

While the character is in Blender, there's a G8 preset for Auto Rig Pro Quick Rig which puts a fully capable, professional IK rig onto the existing DS armature. That, together with the equally superb Animation Layers addon, is all you need for an animation environment almost as good as the one in Maya. I just can't seem to get this to bake automatically via script for importing back, so it currently must be done manually. I'll figure it out.

I was inspired to work on this because DAZ Studio is, still, the best character creation environment there is, IMHO. If I gripe about it a lot, it's because I'm passionate about this awesome program. Likewise, Blender is nearly the best at everything else, and at the rate it is going, it will overtake the industry leaders by 2025, when they complete the character animation initiative they've started.

 

OK, looking good. Long ago I created a spider web via a Blender tute. It was easy to do, just hard to remember since I seldom needed to go back to create more, so Hexagon remained my quicker go-to. I seldom need to model anything.

So apparently you won't be creating animation movements with a Blender character, which is what I was asking about. You'll use the Blender bridge and import a partial G8 character. Back to what I was hoping to avoid in a way, but maybe not necessary after all.

I took a quick look at Auto-Rig Pro. I could afford the $40 package if it actually helps towards my goals. And I see the Animation Layers addon costs $28, so it's time to do some research.

I recently spent an embarrassing amount of my retirement savings on a new machine, even though I built it myself, cutting corners along the way... so I'm apprehensive about even small things like this.

Good luck with your project and please keep the Daz community updated! Thanks for the information!

Hi again,

No, not exactly. The new plugin does not use the bridge at all. It is all new. You press a button and your character is in Blender, ready to animate with an IK rig. You do your animation, bake it, press another button, and your animation is back in DAZ Studio. It doesn't even attempt to do the more sophisticated things that either Diffeomorphic or DTB do because the assumption is that you'll import the animation back to DS and then export the complete character through some other means. I use Sagan, of course.

And maybe one of our resident experts,  @Wolf359 could chime in and offer his opinion as to whether ARP and Animation Layers are worth the money :)

But if your intention is to animate a non-DAZ character, then ARP, Animation Layers,  is all you need for high quality. Although, there are better riggers than ARP, like the Heat Diffusion addon.

TheMysteryIsThePoint said:

Hi

First things first: Yes, definitely start your Blender Learning Journey now... it won't be a trivial task, but I am confident that any person who likes to animate more than they like to complain about the world and software that is in it not being exactly as they would wish it, will be able to master it. I compare it to learning Mandarin: It's hard, no doubt, but 1.4 billion people have, and I've never heard of a mute chinese guy who just could not do it. See you on the other side :)

It means you'll run the new plugin in DS, and with one click in Blender, just enough of the character will be imported into Blender in order to do animation, i.e. the armature and the base res mesh. There's a script to "retarget" animations from supported rigs, and another to export it back to DS. That's it. No FBX, BVH, or any other file format that doesn't know what a G8 is, no obscure settings to remember to set (read: forget to set). It just works.

I think there are two keys for why this works well: 1) Blender is using precisely the same armature as DS, so no foot sliding, etc., and 2) Quaternions are used exclusively, so no weird flips at extreme angles.

While the character is in Blender, there's a G8 preset for Auto Rig Pro Quick Rig which puts a fully capable, professional IK rig onto the existing DS armature. That, together with the equally superb Animation Layers addon, is all you need for an animation environment almost as good as the one in Maya. I just can't seem to get this to bake automatically via script for importing back, so it currently must be done manually. I'll figure it out.

I was inspired to work on this because DAZ Studio is, still, the best character creation environment there is, IMHO. If I gripe about it a lot, it's because I'm passionate about this awesome program. Likewise, Blender is nearly the best at everything else, and at the rate it is going, it will overtake the industry leaders by 2025, when they complete the character animation initiative they've started.

OK, looking good. Long ago I created a spider web via a Blender tute. It was easy to do, just hard to remember since I seldom needed to go back to create more, so Hexagon remained my quicker go-to. I seldom need to model anything.

So apparently you won't be creating animation movements with a Blender character, which is what I was asking about. You'll use the Blender bridge and import a partial G8 character. Back to what I was hoping to avoid in a way, but maybe not necessary after all.

I took a quick look at Auto-Rig Pro. I could afford the $40 package if it actually helps towards my goals. And I see the Animation Layers addon costs $28, so it's time to do some research.

I recently spent an embarrassing amount of my retirement savings on a new machine, even though I built it myself, cutting corners along the way... so I'm apprehensive about even small things like this.

Good luck with your project and please keep the Daz community updated! Thanks for the information!

Could be the elusive "Show Metadata Import Page" from Preferences->Startup...?

Well, the simplest way would be to connect DIM on your new computer to your Daz account and tick the checkbox to reinstall everything.  However, that may not be suitable if you have a download cap or any kind of metering. And also would not take into account anything you have acquired from outside the Daz store.

Next simplest way is to export your metadata (only if you have made manual change), copy your base libraries across to the new machine and hook them up in Daz Studio and then re-import the metadata. There will be a few niggly issues with that maybe.

May be an issue with the metadata if you are using DIM and not going online in Daz Studio, I use Connect so get the current metadata from the servers every time I log in to install something.

Sorry, yes; just simplifying. Bloody annoying though to have a more advanced shader system that fails to allow (for me) critical image map import

It depends what you have on the scene since the viewport renders everything. For small scenes with a few figures I just use simplify and everything is smooth. For HD figures use multires with viweport subd to zero, that's the default in the latest versions. For large scenes use collections to hide what you don't need for animation. For example if you're animating two friends at the table you can hide the room until rendering.

note. important. Of course be sure that the textures fit the vram, since daz assets often use huge textures not optimized for animation. Always check the task manager for vram usage. You may need to resize textures in the blender viewport preferences. Be aware that this will crash blender 3.4.1 so get a daily build or wait for 3.4.2 or use 3.3.2.

Or use solid mode for the viewport shading so that you don't display textures.

https://bitbucket.org/Diffeomorphic/import_daz/issues/1338/blender-341-crashes-when-rendering-g9-with

note. important. These are not issues with blender or diffeomorphic itself though but rather limits with the daz assets. I mean whatever method you use to import daz assets in blender they are not optimized for animation. This is why it is important to avoid HD figures and 8K textures when getting items from the shop, especially G9 and HD figures and environments are most cumbersome and do not fit animation.

SnowSultan said:

Not about composing an entire piece from parts from multiple different pieces.

IT

DOES

NOT

DO 

THAT.

 

Seriously, I'm done now. This is like arguing with conspiracy theorists.

It has been explained numerous times at this point.

Simple question: If you remove the training data from the AI, will it work as well?

And why do you believe a machine has any right whatsoever to use any of your data? The argument of whether a work is transformative from the original is not valid here. The AI does not possess this right. You and I possess this right, but the AI is not a person.

It is true some websites have terms where such rights are waved, but that doesn't change the situation here. The training data is confirmed to come from specific websites that give the users these rights. Aside from this, courts have ruled against restrictive EULAs many times. So a EULA is not a binding contract. Keep in mind that both Diffusion and Midjourney state that local laws take priority over their EULA.

wolf359 said:

We can only hope that litigation will shut the heavy hitters like Midjourney down...or heavily gimp them by making them need to completely rebuild from scratch

 

 

Keep hoping
AI generated art cannot be copyrighted because an AI does NOT  have legal “personhood”

there are literally millions of new images  being produced per day that belong to no one.

Those can be used for new training data .

So any notion of even one of the big AI companies being “shut Down” by “starving” the AI is pure fantasy.

Midjourney reportedly viewed 300 TB of online images to create their 5GB training CPTK

how many terabytes of non copyrightable AI images already exists as of  20 jan 2023?.. one wonders

Best case scenario is that a court orders a “clean” training data set in, some future ruling, and after

months or years of  appeals etc, how many terabytes of non copyrightable AI images will exists by then.

And before anyone declares them “fruit of the poison tree” well there  is that existing court ruling that declared AI art as essentially belonging to no one .

Game over.

 

 

and if the process is found to violate copyright then those images will also violate copyright. Even if theya re not themselves protected it is still possible for them to infringe, and so for anything else derived from them to inherit that infringement. It would depend, no doubt, on the fine detail of any judgements.

 

 

Well since there is no metadata in the AI generated images on the internet you cannot legally determine where the new  training data images online came from, particularly images altered in photoshop to fix flaws etc.
Also there is a  legal percentage of derivation that makes something an original work soeach new AI image will have to be examine to determine which one does not meet the threshhold…not practical

so ..no.. a "friuit of the poisen tree" argument will likey fail

Game over

You sound like you only want to cause chaos to the system. The system already has plenty of chaos, and you seem to ignore just how vicious copyright law can be. The lawsuits have started flowing, and the flood gates are opening fast. I am not sure where your confidence comes from. This will get itself all sorted out in time, as country by country consistantly limits what the AI can do. The AI companies are getting sued before they can really make a profit. They may not have the money to defend themselves for every case that pops up. They may even get bankrupted before finishing their projects. Boy that sure would throw a wrench into some people's AI dreams. They don't even have to lose the cases, if they lose money by constantly going to court, they may have to just cut their losses. Has anybody considered this possibility? These companies might get litigated into obvlion before they can get started. These companies are not huge mega corps just yet. They are only starting to get money from what they have put in.

Midjourney, according to their CEO, has made money only since August. Do you think they have enough of a war chest built up just a few months? Stable Diffusion has $100 million invested into it, but as far as I can tell, it has not become profitable yet. And if things go south, it could lose those investors if they decide it isn't worth it. Diffussion has spent over $50 million just getting up and running. So things could get ugly for these companies if lawsuits start to eat away at their earnings. 

Training AI with its own output doesn't even make sense. Besides that, like Richard said, an image lacking copyright doesn't make it fair game to use. If the image infringes on copyright, it cannot be used, period. The loophole you are looking for doesn't exist.

Talk about game over, LOL.

As mentioned above the percentages of what makes a work legally transformative is designed for HUMANS. Remember, as has been said multiple times, AI is not a human. Just in case anybody forgot this detail, it is kind of important to point it out. I hate that I have to point this out so much, but some people do seem to forget (including some 'youtube experts'). The AI does not have this same right when it comes to judging how much an image must be changed to avoid copyright. If a machine is using a copyrighted work in ANY capacity, whether it is 100% or 0.1%, that work needs to be given explicit permission to be used by a machine. It is pretty simple, really.

Any argument about AI needs to first understand that AI has no human rights. If you train a monkey to paint, it doesn't matter how good it gets, the pictures are not copyrightable. This has already been established, and in turn established what rights a non human has for copyright matters...um...none.

What kind of models? The answer will differ depending on whether you're looking to import morphs of a Genesis figure, standalone figures, props, etc. The most important thing to know going in is that rigging doesn't carry over when importing to DS, so if you're trying to sell rigged props or standalone figures, know that you'll need to redo the rigging inside DS.

Unfortunately no change after reinstalling. If I search for another product with texture addon (dforce medieval barmaid), I do see a separate entry for it. I do not see the same for breezy outfit, even if I load the poncho in the scene first and select it. I am debating on doing a full reset database and just downloading all the metadata again. Not sure what else to do.

I  am not an expert on exporting and importing into Daz, but, Is it not a somehow obvious choice Blender?

- Big community. Active development.
- Great for modeling hard surfaces, organic shapes, sculpture mode, and non-destructive modifiers.
- Daz bridge
- Import-export Daz-supported formats OBJ and FBX.
- Lot of tutorials on how to combine them with Daz.
- A specific space for Blender in Daz Forums.
- And a big etc.
- And even probably it can be modified to have windows similar to Hexagon, if someone wants to I guess.

They show in the Content Library>Products>D list, and if I load the Poncho and select it the texture set shows in the Products tab of Smart Content. It may be that the metadata wasn't added, try uninstalling and reinstalling the product.

"no-AI indicator" - as good as it gets ;) ... opt-out still is a form of abuse, though you would have some choice, at least. Especially note that: you opt out now, but the question is unanswered yet, if already scraped images, due to opt-out always being "late", even if you checked it,  could still remain in the training data. See next point too.

"what with pirated images" - this will happen. It will also happen with modified generated images, that then are flagged as "ok for ai". In general scrapers MUST respect DMCA and change of consent, at least law must resolve this. If you remove copyright AND licensing here, we're obviously in a highly abusive overall scenario, because if you don't want to participate, you can't publish and even further, if you sell your stuff, the results either can't be published or will get used by scraping as well. Imaginable yes, stupid yes.

"output as training data" - Even if "reviewed" by humans, this is ruinous for the machine. It can not work :). You can train another ai with the image output of this one, but not itself. The "images from the net to create training data" does not mean, they made random outputs as training data, that is a misconception. I mean you could try, but it will end in a wrong turn. No solving the question would be like relying on some future tech, not yet invented. The training data question must be answered on ground of theory (maybe it has been?). While there are "some of the brightest minds" working on it, i have not heard much about fundamental questions like this, other than from the foggy realms. Perhaps i am not deep enough into it, and most articles and interviews cover just the obvious question of "change", like which jobs might get replaced, and what do we do in a society with only a hand full of jobs. The question then is, if you have a route back at all, or where you would go from there, if the the training data "turns sour", in terms of applicability, and you don't have much of training data available anymore. This could become worse than the worst the cloud can do.  These are not just nice to answer questions for later on.  In some cases we need to know beforehand, if we're trying to violate law of nature or maybe just math? Imagine basing the "Journy to the Mars" on such an approach... who wants to go first?

-> "if that's not relevant" - i still question, how society is going to benefit with such abuse. I strongly doubt it. Further questions for a cloud service are obvious too, in terms of information control ... controlling mainstream, automatic filtering. Some of that can be answered later, but the fundamental questions should be done early.

(Example for "experiments with society": If you build a new type of rocket, to go to the Mars, you know that a) it has been done before and b) there is good reasons to assume, that with burning a lot of money, you might do better than past approaches and c) if you fail, YOU fail, and/or a couple of investors or just that project, at best/worst.)

(Training data "turns sour": Of course the images on hard disk don't turn sour, but for artwork you might need new input, for humans to still want to use it on the one hand, but also to justify "removing artists from society". Still you will eventually have more generated images than genuinely created by humans ones, as training data. While this scenario is pretty certain, do you have a counter argument not relying on not  yet invented future tech? Relevance is even higher with other fields of application.)

(DMCA: Effectively following would the most sane thing to do: a) explicit consent with standardized metadata only and b) images removed from the location they had been trained from previously, must be removed from training data, due to indistinguishability OR you start a DMCA database where every image that ever infringed or got removed due to DMCA... uh oh... think international?)

IceCrMn said:

For me, the category section isn't populating, so I'm guessing that is why I don't have any tags or ability to filter search.

I'll look into it later it's not that big a problem right now as not everything has metadata to search anyway(older stuff).

Currently I'm installing my Steam library.

Civ6 plays very well.

Benchmarks show me being better or equal to the 99th percentile for performance with my RTX 3060

Gathering Storm bench dipped into the 50FPS range occasionally during the "Heavy AI" benchmark.

I'm happy with that.

Right now waiting for all 100GB of Fallout 4 to download so I can test it.

Are you running Steam in WINE? The reason I'm asking is because my nephew plays all his games from Steam in Linux Mint I can't repeat his comments about Wine in the forum or in mixed company

We can only hope that litigation will shut the heavy hitters like Midjourney down...or heavily gimp them by making them need to completely rebuild from scratch

 

Keep hoping
AI generated art cannot be copyrighted because an AI does NOT  have legal “personhood”

there are literally millions of new images  being produced per day that belong to no one.

Those can be used for new training data .

So any notion of even one of the big AI companies being “shut Down” by “starving” the AI is pure fantasy.

Midjourney reportedly viewed 300 TB of online images to create their 5GB training CPTK

how many terabytes of non copyrightable AI images already exists as of  20 jan 2023?.. one wonders

Best case scenario is that a court orders a “clean” training data set in, some future ruling, and after

months or years of  appeals etc, how many terabytes of non copyrightable AI images will exists by then.

And before anyone declares them “fruit of the poison tree” well there  is that existing court ruling that declared AI art as essentially belonging to no one .

Game over.

and if the process is found to violate copyright then those images will also violate copyright. Even if theya re not themselves protected it is still possible for them to infringe, and so for anything else derived from them to inherit that infringement. It would depend, no doubt, on the fine detail of any judgements.

Well since there is no metadata in the AI generated images on the internet you cannot legally determine where the new  training data images online came from, particularly images altered in photoshop to fix flaws etc.
Also there is a  legal percentage of derivation that makes something an original work soeach new AI image will have to be examine to determine which one does not meet the threshhold…not practical

so ..no.. a "friuit of the poisen tree" argument will likey fail

Game over

For me, the category section isn't populating, so I'm guessing that is why I don't have any tags or ability to filter search.

I'll look into it later it's not that big a problem right now as not everything has metadata to search anyway(older stuff).

Currently I'm installing my Steam library.

Civ6 plays very well.

Benchmarks show me being better or equal to the 99th percentile for performance with my RTX 3060

Gathering Storm bench dipped into the 50FPS range occasionally during the "Heavy AI" benchmark.

I'm happy with that.

Right now waiting for all 100GB of Fallout 4 to download so I can test it.

I don't think I understand what you are trying to do.

But to create a partial geoshell, you can export a geoshell and in a modeller delete the unwanted parts.

Then import in DS, run transfer rigging to the character, and if parented to the character act as a partial geoshell.

synechodus_b7d65b3411 said:

Not tried with G9, but really easy with G8 (but NOT 8.1 where you can't import top coat mask image). I do it entirely in top coat so I can easily add and remove without touching base settings.

That is down to the differnce between the iray Uber base shader and the PBR Skin shader, not 8 vs 8.1 per se.

There are far more complicated ways of doing this that give far better results for close ups, but for a normal image and not extreme close up this is fine.

Make a black and white image of droplets (takes minutes on Photoshop etc from stock photos) with background dark and drops pale. Put this into but the top coat base level and top coat bump for all body parts (you may need a different one for the face as the scale is different). The levels will depend on lighting but typically top coat 70-95, top coat roughness 5-25, top coat bump 1-2.