What's the morph causing the issue?

what version of DS are you using?

And which genesis, 1,2,3,8, are you using?

If you've updated the version of DS or Genesis it might be causing the error.

If you're adventurous you could check the dsf associated with the morph dial causing the error.

Ok, so this is a recent development I've encountered.

I load a new scene and click the default Genesis model but it loads with some foreign morph already shaping my character. I have to manually go in to the parametres and zero the figure to get it to the actual default shape. I have no idea why it does this, the morph it loads isn't even a dialled one. I have since reinstalled the Genesis model but it still loads with this odd shape.

It wasn't doing this a few weeks ago and I have no idea what I've done to alter this.

Any suggestions on why? Or how to correct this, please?

@testingtesterson35

Since I somehow triggered you to enter the challenge, I feel I have to leave a comment on your image (first one, can’t see the 2nd) as well ;) Great portrait overall, I can just share some observations on mostly details:

I really like the custom character morph and the colors in the image. Although you said, that you didn’t like the DOF, I still think at least a tiny blur on the buildings in the background could improve it. 

Regarding the cropping, try to place the character in the left 3rd of the image (no need to break all rules at once ;) ). Maybe even reduce the height by cutting more from her chest, but leave some space for the bones. Overall it could be more calm if you cut away the orange light on the left (although by itself it looks beautiful and it adds to the colors, so up to you what you like better)

The hair strands, especially on the right side, look very transparent. You could try doubling the hair and applying slightly different morphs to gain more volume (or maybe just increase the opacity)

Her eyes look a bit flat, but eyes are always hard to get great. Did you dial in the cornea bulge? Do you have an Iris concave morph? Setting thinwalled off for cornea and eye moisture surfaces might help a bit, too, but increases rendertime.

The sky seems a bit bright for the evening/nighttime setting, but color wise the blue fits beautiful. Not sure if I would change it, probably try darkening it a little.

The light box in front of the window is floating above the floor.

Tiny detail: The bottom part of her piercing goes directly in the lip, probably it should pierce the skin slightly below the lower lip.

Do you have show hidden properties checked?

Thanks carrie58 ! That did the trick. At least for 2 out of 3 hair files I have tested. 

It seems like not all morphs are transferred. I also think they shouldn't be in the "hidden" section at all.. My old eyes hate reading grey on grey.

The authorship information is alright.

It's a pity as I am a big fan of the RSSY converters and I was really waiting for this one... sigh...

The script is telling the Transfer Utility to transfer ALL morphs so I am unsure what I can do about this one.

Don't know if it is related but I was using M4 Midnight Hunter the other night and I found I had to turn off limits and really yank up the numbers before seeing any movement in the back flap of the trench coat - or any of the transfered morphs. Maybe the morphs need to be x10 or x100 strength to see the movement that the original has? And maybe the morphs are there but only appear to be not working. (Don't like the Grey on Grey either but nothig you can do about that)

I don't know.  @zzspriest, which item are you not seeing the morphs?

It is the Christine Hair, a DAZ Original. 
 

Darn, I don't have that one.  I have wishlisted it to get it when it is on sale and test it.

Did some research. Looks like whether the morphs are converted properly or not depends on where they are placed in the original file.

For example : 

- Laurel hair or Reby hair : Morphs are located under "head" - this converts perfect, the morphs are visible under "head" in the converted file. And work great.

- Christine hair, Melody hair : Morphs are located under "neck". They appear in the converted file as "hidden property".. 

- any hr2 hair : No original morphs are transferred at all. Only the converter morphs are there.

I have not checked my whole library but for the ones I tried followed the above. 

 

 

 

Interesting.  This is definitely not the behavior I am seeing (though I don't have Christine or Melody hair).  For those hairs, if you change the path to under head, does that help?

Well... I managed to move the morphs of the original file so they come out in DAZ under "head" instead of the "neck", Converted this one - and it worked ! Morphs are transferred and perfectly visible and they work as they should. I'm not a computer guy and sure these things are way more complicated but I have the feeling that the converter sometimes doesn't know where to show the transferred morphs. The only converter child is "head" and if the original was placed somewhere else (neck) the morphs come out hidden, Or are not transferred at all if it was a hr2 file. I suppose in the end it is just one checked box somewhere in DAZ Studio that will make everything work just fine.

 

 

 

 

Interesting that it worked.  Could you detail what you did for others?

This is a custom-morphed character combining several models and using rarestone’s head morphs, and the shapeshifter morph package.

(There's supposed to be 2 images, but only 1 will upload right now for some reason) I chose to go a bit non-traditional as far as “rules” for portraits go. So here’s some of the stuff I broke: Both my images are wider angled rather than a traditional portrait crop. I instead used the environment, architectural lines and light/shadow to frame the figure as best I could. In the second image, the body and outfit are very important to the overall image so I did not want it cropped off. There’s an assortment of lights in the lighting setup I put together but for the first image I intentionally used a very non-traditional approach for the key light… aiming from a lower angle pointed upwards normally will give an unnatural “creep” factor to a figure’s face, but I did it in a way that I intended for it to add interest to the look of the character and some edge to her overall look and expression.

I also tested the images with DOF, and having the room’s background and cityscape blurred actually detracted from the overall feel of the portrait imo. Even though DOF often does, it really didn’t enhance the focus on the figure in this case. Wondering if there were any thoughts on this and if others see problems with how I went about composing these 2 portraits.

Even though I can’t think of anything that hasn’t already been mentioned, I will try to keep up and offer whatever constructive criticism I can offer to others in this challenge. Thanks very much for any feedback.

I hope your family vist went well! Looking forward to seeing the morph pack in the store 

Trish

Yes.

This is the only picture I currently have access to (I'm away from home at the moment),

Thanks for sharing.  The render though doesn't really show properly where the torso & head seams meet.  Hair obstructs forehead seam and under jaw is not visible due to angle.  And with my test found the seams only in a full sunlight and using iray live preview as I panned around the character.  They didn't show in several light situations or from several angles.  But still very interesting possibility that you present.

The main issue with converting to a displacement rather than an HD morph is that the displacements only apply at the rendering stage, so they can't be taken into account in collisions, which does make them more liable to have issues with mesh clipping.

Mmmm, that sounds problematic.  Will have to test that.  That's a potentially big negative.

However, displacement maps are also compatible with the bump map parameter,

Many of the bump maps I find unnatural looking for skin textures on certain zones of the body.  Will check it out, but am guessing from all my test renders so far, will continue to minimize or stay away from normal & bump maps.  Thanks to a quality Belladzine's product where there was something incomplete (minor bug) think maybe I found a better way .  Will test when I get time again.

so it is possible to partially apply the results as bump maps rather than entirely as displacements, so reducing the positive displacement slightly and dialling some of it in on the bump map channel reaches a compromise where you get to keep most of the detail in the silhouette but with much the same look otherwise and no need to slap adjustment modifiers on everything.

Also do you have a sample file of your HD morph to displacement?  Would love to see it.

Not one I can share; the files obviously contain Daz morph data, and while the Daz licence covers me for the personal modification of assets, I'd be breaching the terms if I shared the Blend files or final displacement maps with anyone else.

If you ever do a HQ render @4k with the 2 characters side by side and showing the skin details, would love to see it.  (4k so a person can zoom in and pan through)

Well a few pixels would be enough. Actually, if the displ. map is correctly made, based on a mid gray value, there should be no need to use maps for the other zones. I use 3DL and use displacement maps on pretty much every character I create. Well 3DL uses micro displacement so it doesn't handle it the same way as Iray, so not sure if there's a difference. Anyway, I've found that displacement is not properly calibrated. Don't know if it's a DS issue or a 3DL issue, though. When using that midgray map that should equal zero displacement I actually use a min value of -1.01 with a max value of 1:) With those values I can use a map for the torso only with no visible seams even at high strenght. Granted, if you insert graymaps for the other mat zones there should be no issues.

Thanks Sven for input.  Will try adding a mid-grey to the head/neck transition.  Honestly am cynical that it will work with only a few pixels.  But guesses based on experince can be wrong.  So I will test when I get time again.  Will be a while before i can get that in depth again  Did find that the arm and leg displacement maps matched well with the torso.  But if what Matt says about collision is right, that could add additional issues with clothing and so on.

Seems would be much simpler if Daz let me buy the HD-addon techno for a fair price.

Do you have show hidden properties checked?

Thanks carrie58 ! That did the trick. At least for 2 out of 3 hair files I have tested. 

It seems like not all morphs are transferred. I also think they shouldn't be in the "hidden" section at all.. My old eyes hate reading grey on grey.

The authorship information is alright.

It's a pity as I am a big fan of the RSSY converters and I was really waiting for this one... sigh...

The script is telling the Transfer Utility to transfer ALL morphs so I am unsure what I can do about this one.

Don't know if it is related but I was using M4 Midnight Hunter the other night and I found I had to turn off limits and really yank up the numbers before seeing any movement in the back flap of the trench coat - or any of the transfered morphs. Maybe the morphs need to be x10 or x100 strength to see the movement that the original has? And maybe the morphs are there but only appear to be not working. (Don't like the Grey on Grey either but nothig you can do about that)

I don't know.  @zzspriest, which item are you not seeing the morphs?

It is the Christine Hair, a DAZ Original. 
 

Darn, I don't have that one.  I have wishlisted it to get it when it is on sale and test it.

Did some research. Looks like whether the morphs are converted properly or not depends on where they are placed in the original file.

For example : 

- Laurel hair or Reby hair : Morphs are located under "head" - this converts perfect, the morphs are visible under "head" in the converted file. And work great.

- Christine hair, Melody hair : Morphs are located under "neck". They appear in the converted file as "hidden property".. 

- any hr2 hair : No original morphs are transferred at all. Only the converter morphs are there.

I have not checked my whole library but for the ones I tried followed the above. 

 

 

 

Interesting.  This is definitely not the behavior I am seeing (though I don't have Christine or Melody hair).  For those hairs, if you change the path to under head, does that help?

Well... I managed to move the morphs of the original file so they come out in DAZ under "head" instead of the "neck", Converted this one - and it worked ! Morphs are transferred and perfectly visible and they work as they should. I'm not a computer guy and sure these things are way more complicated but I have the feeling that the converter sometimes doesn't know where to show the transferred morphs. The only converter child is "head" and if the original was placed somewhere else (neck) the morphs come out hidden, Or are not transferred at all if it was a hr2 file. I suppose in the end it is just one checked box somewhere in DAZ Studio that will make everything work just fine.

 

 

 

 

What do you mean by moving the morphs? In the actual file library, or in edit mode within DAZ? I'd like to give this a try, but not sure what I'd be trying. Thanks!!

Edited to add, I'd appreciate a step-by-step, because I tried the Edit Mode thing, resaved the hair, but then it wouldn't convert the new hair at all, so I'm at a loss for now. Thanks in advance!

@Matt_Castle

The quality and res of the displacement map which is usually baked does play a key diff.  Having used normal maps alot and had happy results in vid-games like you say.  But with IRAY we are trading real-time with physics for much slower but higher detail & realistic light and almost total control over mesh deforms.  This higher visible quality in IRAY renders due to displacement maps (and turning off bump & normal) was really a treat to see.

Have you done a full figure displacement, including head?  If so, what did you find?

Also do you have a sample file of your HD morph to displacement?  Would love to see it. 

If you want displacement only on the torso, make sure the edges are mid gray (128,128,128) and make midgray maps for the other material zones.

How far would you have to feather that out inwards from the seams to make sure there are no wierd lumps ?  My worry is for a good displacement you need to use higher impact settings in the parameters tab.  Or at least that's what I found with my 1 test so far on a G8F.  Then throw in some light situations for a character you use in many scenes and eventually you will likley get questionable skin-depressions or skin-mound projections for those transition areas.  It's why am thinking having to brush it in a 3d app to make sure the projection surface holds up from all angles, and especially when  subject to good contrasting light.

Well a few pixels would be enough. Actually, if the displ. map is correctly made, based on a mid gray value, there should be no need to use maps for the other zones. I use 3DL and use displacement maps on pretty much every character I create. Well 3DL uses micro displacement so it doesn't handle it the same way as Iray, so not sure if there's a difference. Anyway, I've found that displacement is not properly calibrated. Don't know if it's a DS issue or a 3DL issue, though. When using that midgray map that should equal zero displacement I actually use a min value of -1.01 with a max value of 1:) With those values I can use a map for the torso only with no visible seams even at high strenght. Granted, if you insert graymaps for the other mat zones there should be no issues.

Have you done a full figure displacement, including head?  If so, what did you find?

Yes.

This is the only picture I currently have access to (I'm away from home at the moment), and it was a test where I hadn't entirely nailed down the parameters yet (or even had the correct recipe for the character on hand), but this was a G8F conversion of a gorgon character I based on Lekkulion for G3F, originally an HD figure.

The finalised version of the conversion is very hard to tell apart from the original, at least without relying on differences in the base figures themselves, such as their expression details or bending.

The main issue with converting to a displacement rather than an HD morph is that the displacements only apply at the rendering stage, so they can't be taken into account in collisions, which does make them more liable to have issues with mesh clipping.

However, displacement maps are also compatible with the bump map parameter, so it is possible to partially apply the results as bump maps rather than entirely as displacements, so reducing the positive displacement slightly and dialling some of it in on the bump map channel reaches a compromise where you get to keep most of the detail in the silhouette but with much the same look otherwise and no need to slap adjustment modifiers on everything.

Also do you have a sample file of your HD morph to displacement?  Would love to see it.

Not one I can share; the files obviously contain Daz morph data, and while the Daz licence covers me for the personal modification of assets, I'd be breaching the terms if I shared the Blend files or final displacement maps with anyone else.

@Matt_Castle

The quality and res of the displacement map which is usually baked does play a key diff.  Having used normal maps alot and had happy results in vid-games like you say.  But with IRAY we are trading real-time with physics for much slower but higher detail & realistic light and almost total control over mesh deforms.  This higher visible quality in IRAY renders due to displacement maps (and turning off bump & normal) was really a treat to see.

Have you done a full figure displacement, including head?  If so, what did you find?

Also do you have a sample file of your HD morph to displacement?  Would love to see it. 

If you want displacement only on the torso, make sure the edges are mid gray (128,128,128) and make midgray maps for the other material zones.

How far would you have to feather that out inwards from the seams to make sure there are no wierd lumps ?  My worry is for a good displacement you need to use higher impact settings in the parameters tab.  Or at least that's what I found with my 1 test so far on a G8F.  Then throw in some light situations for a character you use in many scenes and eventually you will likley get questionable skin-depressions or skin-mound projections for those transition areas.  It's why am thinking having to brush it in a 3d app to make sure the projection surface holds up from all angles, and especially when  subject to good contrasting light.

@Matt_Castle

The quality and res of the displacement map which is usually baked does play a key diff.  Having used normal maps alot and had happy results in vid-games like you say.  But with IRAY we are trading real-time with physics for much slower but higher detail & realistic light and almost total control over mesh deforms.  This higher visible quality in IRAY renders due to displacement maps (and turning off bump & normal) was really a treat to see.

Have you done a full figure displacement, including head?  If so, what did you find?

Also do you have a sample file of your HD morph to displacement?  Would love to see it. 

If you want displacement only on the torso, make sure the edges are mid gray (128,128,128) and make midgray maps for the other material zones.

@Matt_Castle

The quality and res of the displacement map which is usually baked does play a key diff.  Having used normal maps alot and had happy results in vid-games like you say.  But with IRAY we are trading real-time with physics for much slower but higher detail & realistic light and almost total control over mesh deforms.  This higher visible quality in IRAY renders due to displacement maps (and turning off bump & normal) was really a treat to see.

Have you done a full figure displacement, including head?  If so, what did you find?

Also do you have a sample file of your HD morph to displacement?  Would love to see it. 

Apparently, Vore is the way to get lots of views on Deviant Art.

I'm going need a morph for bigger tongues, an esophogus set, and a stomach set.

I can accept DAZ keeping the HD technology for PA’s but wish at least they could then supply the displacement maps for the characters as well as creating them myself has not gone well.

In my experience, converting an HD morph to a displacement is actually a pretty easy process, only really limited by the lag of trying to handle very high poly meshes in real time in Blender.

Liked the look of the displacement maps way more than the normal or bump maps.  There was a thread someone made here many years ago that showed with images the quality of those 3 maps.  His conclusion was that displacament was just better quality than the other two.

If you're comparing to bump and normal maps, that's no great revelation; that can be guessed from just how the technologies work. Displacement maps actually alter the mesh surface, while bump and normal maps just make the surface pretend that it has contours.
(They influence the surface normal vector that is used for calculations, making that part of the surface reflect/refract/transmit light as if it were angled differently to what the raw mesh would suggest).

However it does often make for a good approximation, normal maps are however much more efficient in terms of processing power and memory, which is a huge boon for real-time applications like video games.

Teen Josie et al are shapes/morphs - any bones that match the base Genesis 3 female will inherit the adjustments from the base figure but custom bones won't and will need to be adjusted (and their centres moved and possibly their alignment) to match, then have the changes linked to the morph slider for the shape in the same way as the adjustments on the base figure.

Thank you for the informative reply Richard.  You provided the missing piece of information that explains the mystery.

I'm just going with morphs.  The bottom line of what you're saying is that this just won't work, but I would add that intuitively it should work - it isn't an unforseen situation for the software designers.  So I loaded the prop on a base figure, hit each pose preset and created a morph from that.  It tends to distort the beads but hey, silk purse out of a sow's ear and so forth.  I'll just deal with the limitations of the software rather than allow the software to chew up my time doing it's job for it ;)  I just don't have the hours in the day to make these minute adjustments to every bone for every conceivable PBM or FBM on every conceivable character.

Hopefully someone at Daz sees this as a worthwhile improvement to the software.

Do you have show hidden properties checked?

Thanks carrie58 ! That did the trick. At least for 2 out of 3 hair files I have tested. 

It seems like not all morphs are transferred. I also think they shouldn't be in the "hidden" section at all.. My old eyes hate reading grey on grey.

The authorship information is alright.

It's a pity as I am a big fan of the RSSY converters and I was really waiting for this one... sigh...

The script is telling the Transfer Utility to transfer ALL morphs so I am unsure what I can do about this one.

Don't know if it is related but I was using M4 Midnight Hunter the other night and I found I had to turn off limits and really yank up the numbers before seeing any movement in the back flap of the trench coat - or any of the transfered morphs. Maybe the morphs need to be x10 or x100 strength to see the movement that the original has? And maybe the morphs are there but only appear to be not working. (Don't like the Grey on Grey either but nothig you can do about that)

I don't know.  @zzspriest, which item are you not seeing the morphs?

It is the Christine Hair, a DAZ Original. 
 

Darn, I don't have that one.  I have wishlisted it to get it when it is on sale and test it.

Did some research. Looks like whether the morphs are converted properly or not depends on where they are placed in the original file.

For example : 

- Laurel hair or Reby hair : Morphs are located under "head" - this converts perfect, the morphs are visible under "head" in the converted file. And work great.

- Christine hair, Melody hair : Morphs are located under "neck". They appear in the converted file as "hidden property".. 

- any hr2 hair : No original morphs are transferred at all. Only the converter morphs are there.

I have not checked my whole library but for the ones I tried followed the above. 

 

 

 

Interesting.  This is definitely not the behavior I am seeing (though I don't have Christine or Melody hair).  For those hairs, if you change the path to under head, does that help?

Well... I managed to move the morphs of the original file so they come out in DAZ under "head" instead of the "neck", Converted this one - and it worked ! Morphs are transferred and perfectly visible and they work as they should. I'm not a computer guy and sure these things are way more complicated but I have the feeling that the converter sometimes doesn't know where to show the transferred morphs. The only converter child is "head" and if the original was placed somewhere else (neck) the morphs come out hidden, Or are not transferred at all if it was a hr2 file. I suppose in the end it is just one checked box somewhere in DAZ Studio that will make everything work just fine.

..so about Sarah, do you need Teen Jane or will she work with just G8F.   She has a much more "mid teens" look and I love those freckles particularly with ginger hair.

Both of the images I posted above (links down below) are Sara without the Teen Jane morphs loaded in because I didn't buy Teen Jane yet. You can definitely use her without Teen Jane. Just realize she isn't going to look exactly like she would if she had the Teen Jane added in which @dkgoose said was dialed in at 100% when he answered my question. I still think she's rather cute and teen-looking without Teen Jane.

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/4719431/#Comment_4719431

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/4720461/#Comment_4720461

...I do have the Growing Up morphs.

I think you would need those morphs on Jane anyway, she does not look like a teenager. And with Growing Up morphs, you can make pretty much any character look like a teen. 

Personally, I would recommend Jane to people who like a generic character that they can tweak and make their own. I don’t think she even adds much to  the gene pool, but she’s really easy to morph into whatever you want her to be. Rendering Aleena now (addon) and she’s very pretty but in no way looks like a teen! 

..yeah I see your point. I have been creating teen and even tween characters since the Gen4 days when we had none without specialised utilities such as the Growing Up Morphs.  Used to be a lot of work back in the day.  With Growing Up and the plethora of teen characters since the introduction of Genesis, I feel like i'm cheating.

Not to hijack the thread but here is the latest rebuild of my signature character (post hard drive crash) Using G3F, a mix of Molly, Tween Julie, and Zahara (the latter via GenX) with the Growing up Morphs and skin created in SBP3.  This would have taken weeks in the Gen4 days as opposed to a couple evenings today.

She  is super cute!  Love the simple but elegant scene.  2 questions--what dress is that, and what is SBP3?

..thank you. The dress is the Isidora Dress for G3F by Pandy Girl.

https://www.daz3d.com/isidora-dress-for-genesis-3-female-s

Yeah, I played a bit with the colour.

For the setting I used the Fast Production Lights which also has a number of different HDRs and is great for doing proof renders. 

https://www.daz3d.com/maia-hd-for-ellithia-8  by Hellboy

The Maia HD body morph loads at 100% for any Genesis 8 Female character. Problem is solved by either moving the Maia HD Body slider to 0% (Parameters / Actor/Full Body) or by uninstalling the product.

Help Ticket submitted, acknowledged by DAZ as of 1508 US Central Daylight time.

Name and likeness together might be enough to cause a copyright claim, though.  PedroFurtadoArts' morph is pretty spot on to the game, so just the likeness may cause a copyright claim.

there are 20 miliion versions of the acfual mesh from the games ripped and floating on the internet and I have yet to see the studio crack down on anyone, so he should be be ok with his likeness