umm,

I would strongly argue against the assertion that "it's the same people" that are suffering this repeated lesson related to updates and the backing up of previous installations/installers. Rather, I propose the repeated messages are coming from intelligent but confused *new* users, simply figuring out the "DS way" the hard way - just like the rest of us have.

Kind of an ages-old initiation ritual at this point, you might say. heh.

Relative to end-users, the current DS Application update system is auditably anti-revision-control in its design. And I'm not saying or implying it is designed with malice or ill intent. This is a statement of fact, based on evidence.

It is simply impossible, as designed, for the users of DAZ Studio to engage in any serious form of *efficient* program/application revision control and rollback based on the installation file archive information available to them at any given moment.

Oh sure, you can describe for me the steps I should take to ensure a complete backup right now, etc. Please, spare me. Forum posts with that info abound for this very reason - and in spite of the good souls (myself included) who try to warn and prescribe the proper work-around to DAZ's refusal to help us protect our application history, the problem repeats at virtually every update. Again, and again, and again. This is also a fact.

Cure the problem, not the symptom.

I've got 30+ versions of "IM00013176-02_DAZStudio4xxWin64bit.zip" and all of the DAZ-sponsored plugins (like "IM00010673-02_DecimatorforDAZStudio4xxWin64bit.zip") that I manually copy and store in named and version numbered folders because *I* certainly can't tell exactly what version each file is without ripping it open and 'grep'ing through the files to figure out which is which.

And neither can you.

Outside of personal full-system backups before each update download session, the current DS file-naming system has no practical user-facing versioning of the files to be backed up.

And no, checksums or other file-parsing/diffing techniques are not viable 'end-user' solutions for this situation. Name the files distinctly and let the user keep or remove them at will - even if by using a checkbox in the DIM/Connect/Central interfaces. That's all it would take.

And based on the internal behaviors of the Developers, they *certainly* understand, and practice, great revision control! To that end, their own plugins that haven't internally changed code between versions, will choose not to load if their compiled in versioning doesn't exactly match the updated DS core application version. Nice. And, none of the PA plugins suffer this effect - DS4.x PA plugins that are 8 years old work fine today - go figure.

So, this system design isn't based on ignorance - it's an intentional choice.

Yet, while I may disagree with the DAZ policy that makes rolling back and access to older versions difficult, I understand it.

I understand that supporting 30 older versions of a 'free' program isn't cost effective for *any* business where costs like this will be accrued by the loss-leader (DS).

Perhaps I would simply make the older installers available in an archive, and release them with a clear 'no support' policy - but that's just me.

But never, across the industry and years of software development and usage, have I seen a system that makes it so difficult for

  a) a user to even *know* that he/she should cover his/her interests (old versions getting silently replaced), and

  b) make it so overtly difficult to actually do so, and to recover from errors in that effort.

No, the problem here isn't the new DS user who didn't back up his/her files.

Nobody can argue the fact that after all this time, somebody in the DAZ release management group has long-since made an operational choice and *still* thinks it's the right choice after all of these years, in spite of all of this constant/repetitive forum feedback from intelligent new users learning the same old lessons again and again, and in spite of all of these support tickets requesting rollback versions. But, perhaps the release team is right in their choice - based on what metric and what numbers - who knows?

That said, I would love to see see how many of their support hours are spent helping users roll-back to previous versions, and even *more* curious, how many of these new DS users simply went and installed Blender after witnessing how this all operates. Too bad we'll never know, eh? Based purely on forum participation, it's clearly a repeating pattern for those that would look - both the problem... and the 'solution'...

And FWIW, as well intended as it may seem, effectively calling the intelligent but frustrated DS newbie users 'stupid' for not backing up their files, rather than acknowledging and maybe addressing the problem as it really stands, probably doesn't generate as much community goodwill to the new users as one might imagine, but perhaps the composition of the community simply is what it is.

That many of us have reverse engineered and shared the details required to do the required backups may prove some tidbits of wisdom, it doesn't make the fact that we need to do so *in this way* any less silly.

The movie character Forrest Gump had a good line about stuff like this.

best,

--ms

Yep looks like they are tolerating the down time well.  Lol Did yall get snow all the way down there?!  I live up in north central Texas by Wichita Falls.

NorthOf45 said:

I can't stay connected via DIM for more than 6, maybe 12, hours. The only other "connections" to DAZ are a few (okay, several) browser pages. No Connect, no Central, one machine. If they're going to disconnect anything, make it a browser window or tab. I do not appreciate all the extra disk thrash as DIM re-scans everything yet again.

The browser doesn't use connection in that sense. Daz Central and Install Manager do, using the same type, and Daz Connect uses another type with a separate limit. There may be other factors in play at different times, and apparently there is a caching issue (curently being investigated) which may cause a connection to drop after it has been sitting unused.

I have the addon showing up fine in Blender, just nothing imports from daz using the script, ive uninstalled evertything and reinstalled close to 10 times, and installed on both the DIM thing as well as daz central, this is just insane.

*edit - my bad, didnt realize you had to seperately import from blender after exporting from daz.  

pzrldralt said:

DAZCentral auto updated the program. There was no choice in the matter. I prefer 4.12 as it worked near flawlessly. NEVER update a program without excensive testing of all aspects of it's operation. Anything else is poor workmanship.

I've not encountered an update through Daz central, but I don't think it will do anything without confirmation from the user - though you might need to close a reminder screen, as you do in Install Manager, for incomplete products.

kyoto kid said:

..don't use Central or Connect, and don't open the IM when the Daz programme is running.  Does the PostGre Database need to connect (though I don't use Smart Content)? . 

Install manager and DS can run at the same time - shutting one down and launching the other too soon can cause issues, as PostgreSQL may end up being closed when required.

..don't use Central or Connect, and don't open the IM when the Daz programme is running.  Does the PostGre Database need to connect (though I don't use Smart Content)? . 

So the moral of the story is only log in from one application at a time when possible? I'm only on a single machine, but it's probably from Daz Central and maybe multiple browser tabs being open simultaneously. It just seems like such a conservative limit, though, but if it stops me from having to log in to Daz Central again....

Richard Haseltine said:

babybuick2691 said:

ShelLuser said:

Sounds like something could have gone wrong with your moving of the library. I mean... if you remove the external drive with the library and then still load your character then it doesn't look like you really moved the library at all. Where is that character data coming from?

I created all my characters using Daz Studio Genesis 3 and 8 characters.  Daz Studio loads up from my C: drive and it has a copy of My Library located under users-public-public documents-My DAZ 3D Library. On my F; drive I have a My DAZ 3D Library with all my content. I copied the whole My DAZ 3D Library to the external hard drive. This is a fresh installation of Daz3D 4.15, so the only content is from the Daz Central installation. I installed default resources for Daz3D 4.15, character essentials, dforce essentials, face transfer, Octane render kit, and required PostgresSQL CMS and PostgresSQL CMS from Valentina CMS conversion. I did not have this issue with the 4.14 version, but 4.15 and the new 8.1 have cause these problems.

"it has a copy of My Library located under users-public-public documents-My DAZ 3D Library." - do you mean that literally?Having nested cotnent directories is highly likely to cause problems.

Yes, I have My DAZ 3D Library file under users-public-public documents-My DAZ 3D Library on the C: drive and a copy of the My DAZ 3D Library from my old system F: drive was not a problem in the past until I upgraded to Daz Studio 4.15. Please let me explain what occurred. My Windows operating system was having issues, and the hard drive was filling up (3TB) and had only 168GB space left. While my created characters were saved to an external hard drive, all the new content I purchased was going onto the C: drive. Since my Windows had to be replaced anyway, I made a copy of the My DAZ 3D Library before having Windows replaced on the computer. I only installed the necessary files using the DAZ DIMM installer and used the Content Directory Manager to connect the external My DAZ 3D Library. Again I did not have any problems until I upgraded to Daz Studio 4.15. Not sure why it is a problem now. I am trying to figure out how to keep from re-installing all 15,982  content over and end up with the same issue of only 168GB of space left. I just never could not figure out how to install the new content to another drive.

I can't stay connected via DIM for more than 6, maybe 12, hours. The only other "connections" to DAZ are a few (okay, several) browser pages. No Connect, no Central, one machine. If they're going to disconnect anything, make it a browser window or tab. I do not appreciate all the extra disk thrash as DIM re-scans everything yet again.

if you install something with DIM or Daz central and when you double-click the product DS wants to download it (and the thumbnail is grey) then it's an issue with the Content Management System. Even if you are working on line DS shouldn't install things that were installed through DIM/Daz Central unless explicitly told to. Is that what is happening - things that have been installed outside DS do not acknowledge that inside DS?

Big Sur was announced with betas alsmost a year ahead of the release but there is still no working DAZ Central update for mac users available and I can not access or work with my purchased content. What is going wrong with DAZ?
There are other apps that are way more complex, like the Affinity Suite, which had updates available at the same day Big Sur came out.
I have to say, I am very disappointed about this kind of customer support.

Richard Haseltine said:

1) DS itself, plug-ins, and some scripts and shaders will need reisntalling. Content installed through Install Manager or Daz Central generally won't need reinstalling, though if you installed through Install Manager and left its Manifests folderin the default location it won't know that the content is installed. For Connect (content installed through DS) you will need to reinstall, unless the database itself was on the other drive (in ewhichc ase you just need to tell DS where it is), though it should spot the existing files and just confirm they are current rather than doing a full download. You will probably need to reimport the metadata for non-Connect installs if you use any of the database driven views (Categories, Products, Smart Content, Presets tabs in property panes); open the Content Library option menu (the lined/hamburger button in the top corner, or right-click the tab) and select Content DB Maintenance, check Reimport Metadata, and select the options to import all.

2) Scenes should load fine, even without reinstalling the content, as soon as you tell DS where the files are.

Awesome Thank you so much you set my mind at ease! :)

1) DS itself, plug-ins, and some scripts and shaders will need reisntalling. Content installed through Install Manager or Daz Central generally won't need reinstalling, though if you installed through Install Manager and left its Manifests folderin the default location it won't know that the content is installed. For Connect (content installed through DS) you will need to reinstall, unless the database itself was on the other drive (in ewhichc ase you just need to tell DS where it is), though it should spot the existing files and just confirm they are current rather than doing a full download. You will probably need to reimport the metadata for non-Connect installs if you use any of the database driven views (Categories, Products, Smart Content, Presets tabs in property panes); open the Content Library option menu (the lined/hamburger button in the top corner, or right-click the tab) and select Content DB Maintenance, check Reimport Metadata, and select the options to import all.

2) Scenes should load fine, even without reinstalling the content, as soon as you tell DS where the files are.

Is this error specific to me and my account (since I'll sometimes leave Daz Central and the shop in a browser open simultaneously), or does this mean the server has had the maximum number of allowable connections for its software? It pops up about 1/4 of the time I have Daz Central open in the background while using Daz Studio.

Richard Haseltine said:

Don't install - if the products are not showing as installed after using DIM/Daz central then there is an issue with the Content Management System - DS will not install, or even connect to Daz, without being told to (e.g. by double-clicking an "uninstalled" product and, assuming you work offline by default, accepting the connection dialogues with email and password entered.

Thank you for the response.

So, where do I not "install?" Do you mean in the smart content pane where there are tabs for "available, installed, pending," (by right-clicking an item)? Sorry if I'm being dense... there's too many ways to install content, and I'm trying to reduce the complexity.
Are you saying that if I only install through DIM, I can leave DS in offline mode (not click on the "login" blue box at the top right of the content pane) and still have access to all my library? It didn't seem like this was possible...

Thank you

Erik 

Don't install - if the products are not showing as installed after using DIM/Daz central then there is an issue with the Content Management System - DS will not install, or even connect to Daz, without being told to (e.g. by double-clicking an "uninstalled" product and, assuming you work offline by default, accepting the connection dialogues with email and password entered.

Richard Haseltine said:

crashworship said:

The background: I'm one of those people who've been shut out of Studio because of incompatibility with the latest Mac OS Big Sur. I've created a Windows installation through bootcamp in the meantime. I've used the Daz Connect installation for those products purchased from the Daz store but that library seems to be encrypted and doesn't seem to allow any process to manually install items by following the traditional non Connect file hierarchy.

Not encrypted, though the files are compressed, but the paths are different from the manual/DIM type (/data/cloud/1_SKU/).

The problem: I have several products purchased from sources other than the Daz store and Daz Central or Daz Connect doesn't seem to allow for manual installation of these files by following the paths created when the zip files are uncompressed. There's a bullet point in the Daz Connect FAQ which says that files may be manually added to the Connect library

• Can I still custom sort my files?

  Yes, you can still customize how your files are categorized by adding your own categories.
  Note: We have added the ability to create stand-in shortcut files for users who prefer to use folders and files to organize content instead of categories. This allows the source files to remain in place and benefit from product updates, while also allowing users to keep a workflow that is similar to those they have already established.

However I can find no easily accessible documentation about how to do this in such a way as to be able to add products not purchased from the store to the Connect library.

An example: I have numerous products created by Arryn_Onnel in my library which were purchased through the Daz store but a few other items by these artists purchased from Renderosity which were not available from the Daz store. I can find no way based on my Connect library structure to add these products to my library. This is just one example but I have roughly fifty or so items that I would like to add to my library purchased from various sources other than the Daz store which were downloaded as zip files and uncompressed to the older non-Connect file hierarchy.

How can I install and use these non Daz store files?

You should have at least one non-Connect directory (e.g. /Docuemnts/Daz 3D/Studio/My Library/) - take the /data/, /Runtime/, and any other folders at the same level of the zip and place them in that. The probably won't have metadata but they should be accessible through the Content Library pane under Daz Studio Formats, and if they have metadata you can import it by going to the Content Library options menu (the line/hamburger button in the top corner, orr right-click the tab)>Content DB Maintenance and checking the reimport metadata option. You can also manually catgorise and set comnpatibility for the files even if they lack metadata.

I tried that. It doesn't work. I'm using an external SSD drive for my content and when I try to create a folder to put these files, that folder remains invisible to Studio from my content pane.

babybuick2691 said:

ShelLuser said:

Sounds like something could have gone wrong with your moving of the library. I mean... if you remove the external drive with the library and then still load your character then it doesn't look like you really moved the library at all. Where is that character data coming from?

I created all my characters using Daz Studio Genesis 3 and 8 characters.  Daz Studio loads up from my C: drive and it has a copy of My Library located under users-public-public documents-My DAZ 3D Library. On my F; drive I have a My DAZ 3D Library with all my content. I copied the whole My DAZ 3D Library to the external hard drive. This is a fresh installation of Daz3D 4.15, so the only content is from the Daz Central installation. I installed default resources for Daz3D 4.15, character essentials, dforce essentials, face transfer, Octane render kit, and required PostgresSQL CMS and PostgresSQL CMS from Valentina CMS conversion. I did not have this issue with the 4.14 version, but 4.15 and the new 8.1 have cause these problems.

"it has a copy of My Library located under users-public-public documents-My DAZ 3D Library." - do you mean that literally?Having nested cotnent directories is highly likely to cause problems.

Lots and lots of products in the store don't show up in search using the most obvious search term for the products. 

That's part of the reason SmartContent to find product you've bought to make a scene on one's local computer is incomplete and a mess.

I know 50K or so is a lot of product to categorize and metatag for CMS and SmartContent but ultimately have someone at DAZ 3D do that will enable them to script much of their packaging, installation, upgrades, and deinstallation much easier with fewer mistakes. They'll be able to better QA both the DAZ Store and the products in the DAZ Store and create more types of sales themes.

The pathetic excuse for store search has been here for years, people have complained about it constantly, and DAZ has done nothing... unless you count making it worse by doing things like introducing Iray but not retroactively labeling 3DL-only  items accordingly, listing "required products" on items that actually don't require them, listing products that fit into many different categories under only one, and, of course, deleting all the read me and store prouct page info for items that are no longer in the store.   

Yes, it would be a big task for someone to sit down, correct the errata, and properly itemize and organize all of the information in the DAZ store, but hardly something on the same level as repeatedly trying to introduce things that no one wants or needs like DAZ Central.  I'm not going to hold my breath until it happens, though, as blue is a very unflattering color on my face.  

Ultimately, if you want to search for a kind of product in the DAZ, it's really far more efficent to leave the store and use Google.  Of course, that often turns up the product that you want at a competing store but that's DAZ's problem, not mine. :)