I actually like filament, and I hope that Daz will continue to develop their implementation of it. The toon thing is a side show for me. I'm pretty sure filament can do a lot more than what it's currently doing in DS.

Richard Haseltine said:

No, 4.x.x.x will not use a 50x0 card for Iray - it will for dForce, Filament, and so on. For Iray rendering you need to use DS 2025 - you can use DS 4 for scene creation, as long as both have access to the same content locations (and as long as you bake any Mesh Grabber modifiers to mesh or morphs before saving for DS 2025 - assuming you don't have Premier)

Just a note, if you're using anything that uses geoshells, you need to load the figure up in 4.24 first, set the geoshells, then re-open the scene in 2025.

Was just about to come on here and ask about that.

No, 4.x.x.x will not use a 50x0 card for Iray - it will for dForce, Filament, and so on. For Iray rendering you need to use DS 2025 - you can use DS 4 for scene creation, as long as both have access to the same content locations (and as long as you bake any Mesh Grabber modifiers to mesh or morphs before saving for DS 2025 - assuming you don't have Premier)..

Migrating from DAZ 3Delight to DAZ Filament (based on Google Android Filament) is not that difficult. There are tutorials on YouTube and 3 products in the DAZ store that can assist you. It is possible to get good looking lighting results in Filament when compared to DAZ 3Delight.

https://www.daz3d.com/rssy-3delight-and-iray-to-filament

https://www.daz3d.com/the-creative-cart--filament-and-filatoon-fundamentals

https://www.daz3d.com/filament-pro-lights-and-rendering-secrets--2-new-lights--video-tutorial

 

 

Some links for your general reference:

https://digitalartlive.com/daz-studio-render-engines-a-comprehensive-guide/

https://www.daz3d.com/filament-information-page

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/690191/what-is-filament

https://google.github.io/filament/Materials.md.html

 

 

WendyLuvsCatz said:

ArtAngel said:

Richard Haseltine said:

namffuak said:

I suppose anyone suitably talented could write a plugin to use 3DL once the 2026/DS6 SDK is available. IIRC there were two options to use the LuxRender engine back in 2011 - 2013 - the Luxus plugin which did a best effort to alter the materials in the scene to match the LuxRender requirements, with the ability to do fine tuning; and Reality - which, IIRC, required manual definitions be made for all materials.
I tried them both - gave up on Reality almost immediately, and never really got comfortable with Luxus. But I think these were the driving force behind Daz going with Iray.
So - feel free to try writing a plugin for 3DL if you wish; fairly certain Daz won't be doing it.

As in previous replies, the issue is that the current version of 3Delight - going back some time - does not support the RSL shaders used by DS, so it would be as big a jump as from 3Delight to Iray - but without the material conversion tools that Daz wrote for 3Delight (RSL) to Iray (MDL).

So . . . what happens if Nvidia has a GPU meltdown. What's on tableB? 3Delight, AMD? Should not DAZ have some plan bs cs and ds?

Filament works on my Motherboard iGPU on both my intel and AMD PCs but sadly Filatoon doesn't on the Win7 i7 Filament itself does

Filament is by far not a replacement for IRAY. 
I'm not that happy about IRAY either, but unlike Filament, it gives at least some konda-realistic results.

ArtAngel said:

Richard Haseltine said:

namffuak said:

I suppose anyone suitably talented could write a plugin to use 3DL once the 2026/DS6 SDK is available. IIRC there were two options to use the LuxRender engine back in 2011 - 2013 - the Luxus plugin which did a best effort to alter the materials in the scene to match the LuxRender requirements, with the ability to do fine tuning; and Reality - which, IIRC, required manual definitions be made for all materials.
I tried them both - gave up on Reality almost immediately, and never really got comfortable with Luxus. But I think these were the driving force behind Daz going with Iray.
So - feel free to try writing a plugin for 3DL if you wish; fairly certain Daz won't be doing it.

As in previous replies, the issue is that the current version of 3Delight - going back some time - does not support the RSL shaders used by DS, so it would be as big a jump as from 3Delight to Iray - but without the material conversion tools that Daz wrote for 3Delight (RSL) to Iray (MDL).

So . . . what happens if Nvidia has a GPU meltdown. What's on tableB? 3Delight, AMD? Should not DAZ have some plan bs cs and ds?

Filament works on my Motherboard iGPU on both my intel and AMD PCs but sadly Filatoon doesn't on the Win7 i7 Filament itself does

I believe 3DL is not the only renderer that LR9000 uses/supports. There may be a couple of functions that require 3DL (scripted renderer outlines?) but I think one of the big wins in the tool was that you could have one scene be rendered and composited with up to four layers from different renders (lines from 3dl, shadows from iray, xxx from filament, octane etc.).

It has been a while, but I think the tool may have some good life left in it, even if you drop 3DL from your workflow.

I'm sure it's not a 'supported configuration', but I run all kinds of versions of DS (old/new) by simply copying the default installation folder to a nearby separate versioned folder before upgrading to the latest shiny versions (which overwrite the default folder version...). Again, not supported, but I'll always have 3DL if I need it for a project. They all seem to honor the DS setting files well enough, although the rare-but-possible multiple instance problem becomes an issue if you run older versions at the same time like we always used to.

cheers and happy new year Ron,

--ms

vrba79 said:

Out of the two toon rendering options people leaving 3DL behind are going to find themselves choosing between, I heartily recommend Filatoon for Filament over Sketchytoon for Iray. It's free, a lot more user friendly and it's not a resource hog. You can do populated scenes with it, without your computer sounding like it's about to self-destruct. This is coming from some who has used them both extensively.

And now with DS6, Mac users can use FilaToon and Filament also. 

echristopherclark said:

Thanks for the help on this. The hair has 11,267 lines (according to the info tab) but has no Hair Generation / Hair Simulation settings. Just going to uninstall it, hide it in DIM, and forget I own it. 

and I won't buy it

thanks for the warning 

would be useless in Filament or for export to other apps too 

https://www.daz3d.com/cecelia-updo-for-genesis-9

link added for DAZ-Deals forum reference 

Out of the two toon rendering options people leaving 3DL behind are going to find themselves choosing between, I heartily recommend Filatoon for Filament over Sketchytoon for Iray. It's free, a lot more user friendly and it's not a resource hog. You can do populated scenes with it, without your computer sounding like it's about to self-destruct. This is coming from some who has used them both extensively.

I'm using Cecelia Updo for Genesis 9 and trying to preview the hairs in a Filament viewport. However, unlike every other strand-based hair product that I own, there are no parameters for Viewport Line Tessellation Sides or Render Line Tessellation Sides, nor are there parameters for Generate PS Hairs, Generate PR Hairs, or Preview PR Hairs.

The product is advertised as a strand-based product and uses the Omni Hair Shader but the expected properties are completely missing from the Parameters tab.

Anyone have any ideas on how to fix this, or do I just need to delete the product from my library and move on?

hjake said:

Now would be an excellent opportunity for DAZ to offer an awesome promotion of conversion tools for example:

RSSY 3Delight and Iray to Filament ( https://www.daz3d.com/rssy-3delight-and-iray-to-filament )

RSSY 3Delight to Iray Converter ( https://www.daz3d.com/rssy-3delight-to-iray-converter )

OR maybe DAZ could purchase them from RSSY and offer them as a freebie and give a nice coupon to previous buyers (like me).

...for those who prefer to stay or work with 3DL, I'd also add:

RSSY Iray to 3Delight Converter And Merchant Resource [https://www.daz3d.com/rssy-iray-to-3delight-converter-and-merchant-resource]

Advanced DAZ Studio Light Bundle [https://www.daz3d.com/advanced-daz-studio-light-bundle]

IBL Master for Daz Studio [https://www.daz3d.com/ibl-master-for-daz-studio]

Reflective Radiance for 3Delight [https://www.daz3d.com/reflective-radiance-for-3delight]

I also will mention Wowie's Awe Shading Kit which brings Physically plausible shading to 3delight (It used to be sold here and is now available at the "other store").  To see how far it takes Daz 3DL check out the works of Sven Dullah In this thread:

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/130611/show-us-your-3delight-renders/

...and the follow up

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/514336/show-us-more-of-your-3delight-renders

 

 

 

Now would be an excellent opportunity for DAZ to offer an awesome promotion of conversion tools for example:

RSSY 3Delight and Iray to Filament ( https://www.daz3d.com/rssy-3delight-and-iray-to-filament )

RSSY 3Delight to Iray Converter ( https://www.daz3d.com/rssy-3delight-to-iray-converter )

OR maybe DAZ could purchase them from RSSY and offer them as a freebie and give a nice coupon to previous buyers (like me).

jeronimocollares said:

Use Filament, its better if you need fast renders. Adobe Lirghtroom Classic to 'fake things'...and... it works, belive me. And have some IAs now to help you to improve renders.

Filament isn't ready for production use. It still crashes on a routine basis with many scenes. And even if it were ready for production use, it can't provide the lighting effects that 3Delight can.

I'm hoping this incentivises Daz3D to fine tune Iray, as it's the only actual render engine left(Filament is technically just a draw style preview).

Daz3D needs to step up and do what they can to make Iray a better experience for the people who suddenly find themselves relying on it.

jeronimocollares said:

Masterstroke said:

Filament is great for previews, for final renders, no thanks.€

That will depend on what you want – the purpose. I can help you organize that. ...

Thanks for posting this information - it is helpful. Your workflow would be a great thread or tutorial (free or commercial), as it seems you've figured out how the puzzle pieces go together in an effective way.

This edge of the industry is moving so fast, I've already got a couple of obsolete pipelines that I set up and never got to using before something better came along.

Back On Topic - If any of our 3DL are/were using it to its full capacity - from toon to photo-real, filament probably isn't going to suffice, but if basic renders were being generated for story-boarding and/or AI reference sorts of uses, then filament is a pretty decent tool to fill that new void.

2c and cheers,

--ms

Masterstroke said:

Filament is great for previews, for final renders, no thanks.€

That will depend on what you want – the purpose. I can help you organize that. If the idea is character consistency, not even AI surpasses photorealism (I mentioned photorealism, and that's limited by current technology – but the trend is for that to change in the coming years). This is different when it comes to 'less realistic' styles, such as 'concept art/digital art' (which is my specialty). In other words, you'll be able to maintain the consistency of your character using some specific techniques with AI and digital painting (use Krita – it's absolutely free, and you won't have licensing problems because you're probably using a product legally acquired from the DAZ Store for a specific purpose – renders). But as I said, if the idea is 'approximation' and not rigid photorealism, there's a way to use 'filamenting', working, of course, within parameters in DAZ and post-production in Lightroom (or something similar). I think that even for photorealism, perhaps image manipulation specialists can produce things that are surprising, but since I'm not one of those in Photoshop, etc... I can't say anything for sure. Krita's AI is very helpful, there's the 'flux kontext' (exclusive for image editing), lighter models like NOOB-IA-XL for 'concept art', various Loras in different styles, etc. Nothing compares to Iray - I use it a lot precisely for that reason, including when talking about external renderers, because the work you'll have to do to assemble something outside of DAZ is equivalent to several renders in DAZ.

I really hope for more advancements in 'filament' and things involving textures/shaders (like hair), global illumination or something similar without depending on lights (and their limitations, 8 spotlights in a scene with shadows), etc.

NB: This is a happy thread, not an argument between boffins thread.

Anyway, as I was saying, this new mini-computer is rendering everything much much faster than ever before and is able to do filament and filatoon and also fast renders of iray and animation frames. My previous machine had an integrated graphics card and I was told by somebody at Daz that there had been issues with integrated cards. Anyway, the new machine is brilliant.

I'm certainly not "stuck" with cpu or "stuck" with gpu or "stuck" in any way at all. There is no sense of being "stuck" or "dead" as you put it. I'm overjoyed that I can now use the filament renderer instead of Iray! Although, as I said before, Iray is now speeded up as well. Happy happy joy joy!!

It doesn't matter how it's processing the data as long as it is processing that data faster than ever before I'm happy and certainly not "stuck".

The new machine is far superior to the old one. It doesn't matter how it achieves the result, the important thing is that it does so. From an end user perspective it could be doing it by magic. The "radeon" or "nvidia" thing is only a label attached to the outer casing of the computer but what goes on "under the hood" is, as always, an infinite universe of deep dark mysterious gubbins beyond all comprehension.

At the end of the day it does what it does no matter how it manages to do it. I'm happy with that. 

The joyous wonderment of the thing is being, at last, able to use the filament renderer in Daz Studio. The improvement in Iray renders is very probably an example of the shortcomings of my previous machine. 

Also Bryce is now able to handle bigger animation files from the Daz-Bryce bridge which previously would've crashed it. 

 

Filament is great for previews, for final renders, no thanks.€

I know I'm slightly off topic talking about hardware but I just wanted to say that I've been worrying for the last few years about being left behind in a digital underclass because Daz was zooming ahead into new tech which my old computer couldn't handle and then, at last, I was able to afford a new mini-computer in a black Friday sale and it is superb! It's a Ryzen AMD 7 .

I was astonished at the little box which is so much more powerful than my old PC. The new one has Windows 11 and Radeon graphics and is able to do Filament and Filatoon renderings without crashing and Iray renderings very much faster than the old one could. Well worth looking at if you're looking for lower price with faster renders. 

I used to have to go to Superfly and Firefly and other, older renderers to get any results done quickly, especially when I was trying to do animations. I had to use lower resolution figures and props and different software choices. Now everything is faster. Even Bryce and Carrara now run better and with less crashes. 

Also the mini-computer takes up less space, is almost silent running and is using less electricity. Cheaper and better for the environment.