Nice to see some familiar avatars return for some votes.  For example, Hello @d-j-o.  Hope all has been well in your corner of the the 3D-verse.  Still love your great race vortex, but you had a different handle then.

-

UB, Daz's Britney, and PhilW really processed this one amazingly quickly.  Must be a record.  Thanks again.  Here is a quick Prince Valiant render using PhilW's paige hair on M4 instead of V4.  Never knew you could switch figures if the hair was grown directly on the mesh.

https://www.daz3d.com/paige-hair

And what do I want this madness:
* A new cat
* A new dog
* Lotsa creative stuff for the men, especially sci fi and steampunk things
* Cool aliens (I think I know one in the pipe...)
* An android character for M8
* Something fancy and well done from Stonemanson. (That I actually think will happen)
* Some Asian Gen8's

I thought that the optitex dynamic clothing freebie site had one or two items pertaining to Betty Paige.

I thought I had seen a V4 Bettie Paige black lingerie set with hair, but now I can't find it again..anyone know?

@petes images

What exactly are you trying to return for refund?

dForce is part of the Studio software, it didn't cost you anything. dForce compatible clothing do not require dForce to be usable.

Not dForce itself|(i'm well aware of that) it's

the dForce Master - Cloth Simulation Presets itself, but having now said that I have managed to get it working, but it still does not work with Paige Dress or Taylor Dress, despite the claims made of working with older clothing that are not dForce compatible, I have contacted the Tech Department etc but still waiting for a reply. Frustrated with it is is vastly underestimated. Yes my software is upto date, graphics card is ok, followed all instructions to detail, but it still does not do what they claim

tt

Tom Fritz is one of my most favorite automotive/hot rod artists... IMHO what Frank Frazetta is to fantasy art, Tom is to car/hot rod art...He has a very loose painting style I would love to recreate in my 3D car renderings...

Tom Fritz's website

 

My feeble attempt to emulate Tom Fritz  using a photograph I took at a car show (2014 Atlantic Nationals, Moncton, New Brunswick Canada) and Lightroom CC (process raw photo), Photoshop CC and Topaz Studio Impression...

 

 

Frazetta, Fritz and Norman Rockwell....three of my most favorite modern painters....

 

 

Now when it comes to comic book artists I have many...

Barry Windsor-Smith

Moebius

Jack Kirby

Jim Starlin

Dave Stevens (Rocketeer, Bettie Page)

Paul Chadwick (Darkhorse's Concrete)

Gil Kane

John Buscema

Will Eisner

Richard Corben

Virgil Finlay

Are some of my favorites....

Terrific post (because I agree with so many of your choices).

Excellent use of Topaz on the hot rod.  Not feeble at all.

I only posted a photograph to illustrate what I would like to try an achieve with a 3D render... that's the type of look for my car renders...

Cheers and many thanks..

tt

Tom Fritz is one of my most favorite automotive/hot rod artists... IMHO what Frank Frazetta is to fantasy art, Tom is to car/hot rod art...He has a very loose painting style I would love to recreate in my 3D car renderings...

Tom Fritz's website

 

My feeble attempt to emulate Tom Fritz  using a photograph I took at a car show (2014 Atlantic Nationals, Moncton, New Brunswick Canada) and Lightroom CC (process raw photo), Photoshop CC and Topaz Studio Impression...

 

 

Frazetta, Fritz and Norman Rockwell....three of my most favorite modern painters....

 

 

Now when it comes to comic book artists I have many...

Barry Windsor-Smith

Moebius

Jack Kirby

Jim Starlin

Dave Stevens (Rocketeer, Bettie Page)

Paul Chadwick (Darkhorse's Concrete)

Gil Kane

John Buscema

Will Eisner

Richard Corben

Virgil Finlay

Are some of my favorites....

Terrific post (because I agree with so many of your choices).

Excellent use of Topaz on the hot rod.  Not feeble at all.

Carrara Job

 

I feel sad for him.

This is really evocative. 

Lori rendered in Daz Studio iray and filtered afterwards in Topaz Simplify.

https://www.daz3d.com/lori-for-genesis-8-female

Very nice, looks like color pencils.

Love the color choices for her clothing and hair.  Despite the fact that it looks like a drawing it has a sense of authenticity to it if that makes any sense.

Another render from Unity 3D - filtered afterwards in Topaz Simplify.

This really makes me want to sit down and binge on Warner Bro's cartoons.  Roadrunner and Bugs Bunny.  (thats a good thing by the way lol).  It definitely feels like that kind of cartoon image.

This is a line render (my thing) plus a shading render run through Fotosketcher (nothing fancier than 'make everything flat white')

I find that a good line render (whether 3dl or my thing or whatever), slightly blurred and applied lightly, can really enhance the detail that other purely filtering methods have trouble with.

This was mostly a test to see how well I could get the lining to work on a lot of flat surfaces edge on to the camera, which is where many systems fall down.

NICE! This method did a good job of maintaining the lines where they needed to go. Yes, there's a little blow-out on his hip, but as that's where a highlight would naturally fall, it's okay.

This is gorgeous. 

@magicjava - thank you for the detailed tutorial/info re how to use the geoshell.  The images you posted were very helpful.  

I made this image layering a GSO render and an iraytoon shader render.  I then fixed errors such as failure to put matts on the belt, lol.  Painted over a bit, and added a tiny bit of line art.  The rest is topaz filters.  The background is not mine.  My goal was to see whether I could achieve a manga style character with good outlining - which for the first time, I feel i did.  Because I was just playing around and testing, I didn't have a particular story or image idea in mind.  I regret that now because it would have been so much better with a real pose/storey behind it.  

  

 

Even if you didn't have a set story for this, most people read their own story into what they see anyway.  so while you mig

 

Carrara job - postwork in Nix and Topaz Impression - used a new plugin that converts Carrara hair to mesh which can then be used as replicator bases

tratidionally some of us have used Carrara hair for grass

image is 3000 wide if you feel like clicking

Really great feeling of traditional painting and a very serene feel to it.

Character revamp

Really like his eyes

thankyou Mr mmitchell_houston ​ ;)

looking forward to more of your work

Thanks! Work has been crazzzy! I had a rush deadline for my work recently. Stuff that was originally scheduled for 5 days was suddenly needed in 3. Just the usual crazy stuff. I'm looking forward to sitting down and getting back to work on my comic.

yes here too, lucky I finished all the work for my show a few months ago othersie I would have crashed and burned....

this image my first go with the New fluid plugin for Carrara in action (free plugin) - didnt have much time for post work

more data on plugin here https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/220631/fluidos-plugin-for-carrara/p1

 

 

 

This is amazing!

Tom Fritz is one of my most favorite automotive/hot rod artists... IMHO what Frank Frazetta is to fantasy art, Tom is to car/hot rod art...He has a very loose painting style I would love to recreate in my 3D car renderings...

Tom Fritz's website

 

My feeble attempt to emulate Tom Fritz  using a photograph I took at a car show (2014 Atlantic Nationals, Moncton, New Brunswick Canada) and Lightroom CC (process raw photo), Photoshop CC and Topaz Studio Impression...

 

 

Frazetta, Fritz and Norman Rockwell....three of my most favorite modern painters....

 

 

Now when it comes to comic book artists I have many...

Barry Windsor-Smith

Moebius

Jack Kirby

Jim Starlin

Dave Stevens (Rocketeer, Bettie Page)

Paul Chadwick (Darkhorse's Concrete)

Gil Kane

John Buscema

Will Eisner

Richard Corben

Virgil Finlay

Are some of my favorites....

I like all three renders but this one in particular.

Tom Fritz is one of my most favorite automotive/hot rod artists... IMHO what Frank Frazetta is to fantasy art, Tom is to car/hot rod art...He has a very loose painting style I would love to recreate in my 3D car renderings...

Tom Fritz's website

My feeble attempt to emulate Tom Fritz  using a photograph I took at a car show (2014 Atlantic Nationals, Moncton, New Brunswick Canada) and Lightroom CC (process raw photo), Photoshop CC and Topaz Studio Impression...

Frazetta, Fritz and Norman Rockwell....three of my most favorite modern painters....

Now when it comes to comic book artists I have many...

Barry Windsor-Smith

Moebius

Jack Kirby

Jim Starlin

Dave Stevens (Rocketeer, Bettie Page)

Paul Chadwick (Darkhorse's Concrete)

Gil Kane

John Buscema

Will Eisner

Richard Corben

Virgil Finlay

Are some of my favorites....

A npr render in Vue Complete I did a year or two ago. Car is a free Sketchup model of a 1953 Chevrolet low rider from 3DWarehouse.

 

Love classic cars.

Art, classic cars, hot rods, comic books, art deco, era of Bettie Page pinup art....  all seem to go hand in hand... :-)

Presently I admin two Flickr groups which some of you maybe interested in joining... I am the sole creator and administrator of these groups...

Hot Rod & Car Art
 

Is dedicated to automobile photography and automotive art which includes digital art. Many of the renders posted in the DAZ thread  CAR AND BIKE LOVERS THREAD - MARK IV
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/57610/car-and-bike-lovers-thread-mark-iv#latest ; would be most welcomed.

I also have a group dedicated toDigital Imagery including Digital Painting and 3D Rendering

All digital art is welcomed except for pure photography. However photo manipulations are most welcomed... So matter if your tool of choice is Photoshop, Painter, ArtRage, Gimp, Sketchbook Pro.... or 3DMax, Poser, DAZ3D, Vue, Bryce, Zbrush, 3DCoat, Hexagon, Lightwave, Blender3D, MOI3D.... Genre can be landscape, portraits, sci-fi, fantasy, transportation, manga, comic book, cartoons.

Your art would be most welcomed.  But no pure photography to the Digital Imagery group.

Pure automotive photography can be posted to Hot Rod & Car Art

Automotive art can be posted to both groups.

So don't be shy and take a browse...

The forums are meant to be family friendly.

So please no pornography, even borderline. No full frontal nudity exposing genitial. However artistic nudity (ie: 1950s/60s centerfold type, Bettie Page, etc) is fine...

Cheers

Ken

Hey, Everyone. 

I've recently engaged in several conversations about Photorealism in CGI, here in the Daz forums 'sand other places.

One of the topics that always comes up when having this discussion goes something like, "Yeah, mmm... but, I *like* stylised/toon 3D art. Why do I need (to know about) photorealism?"

Then the debate ensues...

Well, I came across this video. It's a pretty long video, but it's just the first 10 minutes that give a really good arguement for "why" photorealism is important to strive for when creating any CGI. So... I thought I'd share it.  Take a peek and let me know what you guys think. Thanks.

Thanks for posting! I watched to whole video, and even though I've already figured out (or learned) most of it, I did pick up a couple tidbits to keep in mind in the future. I do think if your intended use of 3D is to make "3D": images, then knowing/understanding photorealism, and how to mimic it, is extremely important. Now there are many who use DAZ, Poser, etc. to create images that mimic 2D art, or their style is more of a stylistic 3D/2D. For them, this is no doubt much less important. but from anyone wanting good true 3D results, I think he makes some very valid points (I definitely want to watch some of his other videos too).

To some extent I can agree that "hobby artists don't need to understand how to do realistic 3D", if a true 3D look isn't what they are after. However, if you want your work to look truly 3D, and have a certain degree of realism, then yes, I think you do. If your using 3D software to make flat 3D/2D images, then you don't need to. If your using 3D software to make stylistic renders that look more like 2D drawings and not like 3D images, then you may not need it (depending on your style). Finally, if you just don't care if your image looks like real 3D, and just want to want to make images that make you happy and have fun, then obviously you don't need to concern yourself with any of this. But for anyone who wants to improve and make their 3D work look more like real (realistic??) 3D, then the video does bring up some very valid points and ideas to improve your work.

For anyone using DAZ who wants to create true or realistic 3D, much of the work he talks about is already done for us The modeling and basic surfaces/shaders are already there. If you purchase a lot of lighting sets and have a good set of HDRI images, then lighting is also pretty much taken care of. But, if you want to go even further, and create your own work, and improve on the base that you start with from your purchased products, then yes, understanding "photorealism" is a must. But first, you need to understand that a photograph, any photograph, is merely an abstraction of reality, it is not reality. We have abstraction caused by several factors including; the media that captured the photo (film and digital both create an abstraction of reality), lens geometry and quality, resolving power of the lens and the film/CCD, color capture (spectral) accuracy of the lens and the film/CCD, blurring and DOF, and a host of other factors that control how pleasing the image is to our eye (lighting, colors, framing, composition, etc.), and exactly what part of "reality" is captured. These are all factors in making a great realistic photo, but they are also factors that are important to a great realistic 3D image.

If you go past the first few minutes of the video, he talks about the nuances and minute details that many people miss when making/composing a 3D image (this does not apply so much to people using 3D to create 2D images, or highly stylized and post processed images that mimic a more traditional 2D art forms). But for people that are wanting a true realistic 3D effect, regardless of whether it is a toon or a "real" person/thing, understanding proportions, how things move, the physical properties of surfaces (materials/shaders), lighting, a bit of post processing ...... things that are covered in the video, are a must. Now true, if this is not your "style", then much or all of this may be of less importance.

I personally LOVE toons. I watch every animated thing I can get my eyes on... lol.

But, I'm also, um... a bit insecure about my own "work". I'm always striving to understand what makes "good" art and what makes "art" good? Telling a story? Conveying an emotion or curiosity? Being able to immerse an "audience" is an important goal... maybe? I don't know.

This topic of photorealism and it's importance (or non importance) is sort of a newish idea since it's only even been possible relativley recently.

What I found interesting in the video was the statement that understanding photorealism is important, even if you wish NOT to create photorealistic images yourself. Much like, it's important to understand how real world bodies "work" if you wish to create stylised or toonish figures, even in illustrations.

I thought it was an interesting idea...

 

Pixar has come up a couple of times in this tread. IMHO, their movies are prime examples of the principles talked about in the video, especially their more recent works. One great example is the water in The Good Dinosaur. It looks like real water, the waves/ripples all have secondary and micro waves/ripples, and the shaders/mats are perfect for real water. Or the short "Piper" (note: this link isn't to the full short, but it is the best quality example video I could find of it), OMG, the realism there is phenomenal for a "toon". Obviously it's not real, the characters are stylized, but IMHO the realism really helps sell the story. Pixar pushes the realism envelope and continually improves with each film. Even Inside Out, where all of the characters in her brain were volumetric, they still had very realistic elements everywhere in every scenes. Pixar also creates physical models of all of their primary characters (small sculptures), and drawings (for expressions, etc) to aid in the development of the characters in the digital environment. So essentially, they are representations or real world objects (they also go to great lengths for the artist to study and real world analogs to the environments and characters they are creating to improve the "real" feeling).

I too am a big fan of the 3D animated films, and go to watch most of them. What I have noticed is that while Pixar continues to push the realism envelope, many others have backed off a bit no doubt to reduce render times and costs. Though Disney Animation Studios seem to be pushing it in their own style, even their own ray tracing render engine to improve their realism and own style).

...nice photo or CGI render...

...not, it's a painting.

Photorealism in art has been around long before programmers created the first 3D mirrored balls on checkerboard floors.  I rememeber having discussions about it's merits back in my college days decades ago.

That is awesome!!! I think it's also a good example of how everyone has different needs and styles. For this person, obviously to recreate reality was a prime concern. If this wasn't done from a photo reference, then the creator had a firm grasp on photo "realism", as DOF and what looks like a bit of camera lens distortion were a part of the composition.

Okay, we're all on the same page that understanding realisim is important.

Now... does this qualify as photoreal?  Why or Why not?  Is this a valid style for CG artists to aim for?  Why or Why not? - removed because it's distracting from my point

No, it definitely isn't photoreal. As to it being realistic or not, that would depend on your definition of realism. To me, no, it is not very realistic. It is great work, but I wouldn't call it realistic, because the abstraction of reality is pretty large here (missing details), but there is some "DOF", and overall very impressive work. Yes, there is the play of light and shadow, and it portrays things you can see in the real world, the lighting does seem to be a bit inconsistent to me. Now 30 years ago I might have thought it was very realistic, but now, not so much.

Anyway, too sum it all up, any style is valid, but IMHO if you want to achieve believable 3D effects, because this is the style of render you want, then yes, understanding what is needed for photorealism is quite important. 

So sorry for the long post 

Okay, we're all on the same page that understanding realism is important.

Now... does this qualify as photoreal?  Why or Why not?  Is this a valid style for CG artists to aim for?  Why or Why not? - removed because it's distracting from my point

I take the word "photoreal" literal - any render, drawing or whatever that looks like it's an unaltered photo taken with a high quality camera (i.e. how a normal set of eyes see things). Otherwise the definition gets too broad, IMO. So in that definition the above drawing does not qualify to me.

Personally I don't find photorealism as defined above anything to strive after as the main goal in renders, drawings etc., in that case you could just use a camera instead (in a technical context the main goal may be to develop methods for or learning how to produce photorealistic art, but that's a different story). I'd rather take a real photo of a person or whatever if that's an option than spend a lot of time trying to create a photorealistic render of drawing of that person/thing/situation. I only find it relevant in cases where I want a realistic illustration of people/things/situations which are impossible, difficult or too expensive to reproduce with a camera. 

Okay, we're all on the same page that understanding realisim is important.

Now... does this qualify as photoreal?  Why or Why not?  Is this a valid style for CG artists to aim for?  Why or Why not? - removed because it's distracting from my point

Good example of none-photorealism that is nonetheless based in reality. There is lighting coming from the right, shadows, sword looks like metal, detailed vegetation, human anatomy, color palette, composition etc. The whole thing is artistically sound even if one may dislike the style or subject.

By the way, FWIW...

My reaction to the Bettie Page image that DaWaterRat posted is (in this order):

1. Nice looking girl
2. Wish I could draw like that
3. Looks like he used those Kuler colors 
4. Boring image; I've seen a million like it

2 is why I turned to CG.  I can't draw like that.  And I agree it's just a pin up, which doesn't particularly excite me either.  I just grabbed one from Elmore's site.

This is actually one of my favorites of his: (You'll note the ladies are mostly covered...)

By the way, FWIW...

My reaction to the Bettie Page image that DaWaterRat posted is (in this order):

1. Nice looking girl
2. Wish I could draw like that
3. Looks like he used those Kuler colors 
4. Boring image; I've seen a million like it

Okay, we're all on the same page that understanding realisim is important.

Now... does this qualify as photoreal?  Why or Why not?  Is this a valid style for CG artists to aim for?  Why or Why not? - removed because it's distracting from my point

Here is a look at pinups through four lenses, which will hopefully give you inspiration in creating your amazing pinups.  However, the subject is vast, and because comments here need to be brief, this post will barely touch upon some of the main artists and genres.

1.  Advertising

2.  Entertainment

3.  Military Morale

4.  Holiday Spirit

All of the images below are clickable.

Advertising

In late 19th century Paris, Jules Cheret discovered what is now an open secret in the advertising world - that if you add sex appeal to a product, it will sell better.  Cheret, an artist and printer, was the Godfather of the pinup poster.  His posters of beautiful women, which he posted on street corners to advertise local burlesque revues (such as the Follies Bergeres and Moulin Rouge), eventually became so popular that the French government began taxing them!

Cheret opened the floodgates.  All sorts of companies began to seek popular pinup artists to help sell their products, which continues to this day.  Here is a small sampling:

Best Selling movie poster

Entertainment

It is difficult to determine when pinups stopped primarily being vehicles for advertising, and began to also be appreciated in their own right as entertaining art.  At some point, pinup-style art began to be used on calendars and posters, as well as stand-alone artwork in magazines.  A list of the most famous pinup artists in the 20th century would include George Petty, Gil Elvgren, Zoe Mozert, Art Frahm, and Alberto Vargas.

George Petty - the name "Petty Girl" was coined to describe his style.  It was so popular that a movie was even made with the same name.  And of course, Petty himself illustrated the movie poster.

Gil Elvgren - "Splendid View"

Zoe Mozert painting her famous movie poster for "The Outlaw"

Art Frahm was known for his models with poor elastic in their panties.

Alberto Vargas was famous for his work in Esquire, and later in Playboy.

Today, a new generation of artists are continuing the pinup tradition.  The 50's look is once again being popularized by artists such as Greg Hildebrandt and Fiona Stephenson.

Greg Hildebrandt

Fiona Stephenson

And finally, no entertainment category would be complete without mentioning photographic pinup posters.

The best-selling poster of all time was Farrah Fawcett, from 1976, with over 12 million copies sold.

Iconic Marilyn Monroe poster, fromThe Seven Year Itch

Arnold Schwarzenner back in the 1970's

The queen of pinups, Bettie Page

Military Morale

In WW1, US President Woodrow Wilson formed the Division of Pictorial Publicity to stir up patriotism and inspire new troops to fight.

This was one of the poster messages, which seems a bit odd today:

Here is a masculine call to join the Navy

In WW2, pinups really hit their stride.  Allies and Axis forces both used them to boost morale.

The famous Betty Grable poster - 5 million were distributed.

WW2 was also considered the golden age of aircraft nose art.  According the wikipedia, the practice of adding pinup art to the nose of the plane was "to express the individuality often constrained by the uniformity of the military, to evoke memories of home and peacetime life, and as a kind of psychological protection against the stresses of war and the probability of death. The appeal, in part, came from nose art not being officially approved, even when the regulations against it were not enforced."    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nose_art

Holiday Spirit

Holidays have always been a ripe subject for pinup artists, especially in calendar art.

Here are several pinups with a Halloween theme:

For Halloween pinup photos (Hollywood publicity photos), try this link provided by Diomede.

HAVE A WONDERFUL CHALLENGE!

Sueya's Top 3 Picks for July 2017

FW Monie for G2 Female  -Render 1

Paige Dress- Render 1  Render 2

FWSA Gabriel HD for Tween Ryan 7 - Render (used on Genesis 3 Male)

Reading all the comments makes me feel like I've dropped into the Twilight Zone. I think she looks stunning!! Really beautiful! 

it is amusing don't you think that usually the complaint is each figure is toooo pretty/perfect not average everday looking or is youngish looking needs to be more mature older looking or toooo skinny and then they give us that or try to and then still complaints saying she's ugly or fat or old or butch the only female figure I've seen relised that everyone raved over was Star. Oh well can't please everyone. I also look at the related  extras you can buy which gives you more an idea of the newer character/s some interesting like the add on clothing textures or poses and so on as sometimes these better display the potential of the new characters and there are a few there that show off both the tough gritty side as well as more softer side of Olympia, Victoria and Gen8 as well as some of the add on characters. Got pro yeah maybe could've just gone for the base but want a few things to get going yeah she and Vicky can use older stuff but still nice to have few of their own things too and I think the archery set is ok too has that action comic suoer hero vibe feel to it would buy some of the extras if could afford 

lol Yeah. Can't please everyone, that's for sure. One thing I think MIGHT be causing (or at least contributing to) the complain-fest is that there is a lot of really negative stuff going on in the world right now, and I think that might be affecting both people's moods as well as making them a LOT more picky about what they spend their money on. (That's just a theory though.)

I absolutely love Olympia 8 and will be getting her as soon as I'm able to get some money coming in. :)

I think you'll like her you know she may make a good starting point for a G8 version of Lady Death

yeah always negative now days in everything just look at anything on facebook even a cute and funny aniaml pic or video enrages people 

some say O looks too manly maybe some she looks like a tough lady but there are plenty in rl do but same time there are a few promo renders that make her look softer and others that make her look like an average don't wanna say plain but as someone that doesn't stand out as for some saying looking like Vicky well looking at the different shots I think even in the base promos some are featuring showing what she looks like with Vicky skin or part of her dialed in but not saying it like others promos have when they've displayed other characters shapes dialed combined or skin textures used

hahah She WOULD make a nice base for Lady Death! :)  I'm still working on trying to find a couple of really good white-haired hair shaders.

She's pretty much perfect for Lady Death. I'm definitely looking forward to getting her!

 

 

was wondering on your progress wouldn't mind doing a version too mentioned before did Purgatori and the owner creator loves fanart love to do Evil Ernie. Haven't done a Vampirella for ages either yeah different company but was crossovers Vampi took on LD and P teamed up with LD. Actually Olympia here would work as Vampi too been a few different sizes builds of her over the years depending on the artist. Body shape wise she may also be good with some morphing in some areas for a Bettie Page type character model you know the curvey models of the 40s-50's and some later ones 80s mostly British ones they were more curvey