What's this about turning characters into props?
HorusRa
Posts: 1,664
in The Commons
If I'm understanding this right, if you turn a character into a prop it saves on memory and polys? Is that so? What is the advantages of this and how is it done?
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To do the conversion of a single figure:
Edit->Figure->Rigging->Convert Figure to Prop
There is also a small script that does this to a hierarchy of figures (eg a character and all their clothes). Look on the DAZ wiki for it.
The advantages of doing this is purely to save memory, and for Genesis figures this can sometimes be hundred's of MB. You only need to do it if the scene is large and complicated and pushing close to the memory (real not virtual) of your machine. Render times are only faster if your machine was rendering close to it limits, since reducing the memory used by DS will reduce the amount of swapping that goes on during render.
The main disadvantage of this, is that characters converted to props can no longer have their pose changed (although you can rotate them, move them, and change their materials. As such it makes sense to save the character as a scene subset before converting to a prop, so that it can be reloaded if you want to change the pose.
I hope this makes sense.
ps: This only saves memory, the number of polys of the prop are the same as the character. To reduce the number of polys reduce the character to base resolution before converting to a prop.
pps: Note this does not reduce the amount of GPU memory needed for an iRay render, as the data saved by converting to a prop is not send to the graphics card anyway
Thanks for the info. Yes that does make sense. My problem is trying to figure out how to cope with scenes where a lot of people are needed. Usually once I have around 4+ characters in any given scene things start getting much slower, this has proven to be a pain. Usually after clearing a scene such as this or closing Daz afterwards, there is of course a whole lot of hard drive clearing going on as well. Do character props help in this type of situation? Example: let's say one has a market bazaar, you have shoppers and you have merchants, obviously this is going to slow a machine way down, thats quite a lot of people needed. I know that one can use the ole alpha texture on a plane, but thats not always very realistic and I like to generally avoid that.
Interesting, is the script a product in the store?
I'm thinking I found it, but all the url's come back as page not found. http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/referenceguide/scripting/api_reference/samples/start
Cool thanks
I've started doing my figures in stages. If they are real close to the camera, I convert to prop. If they are further away but still close enough to see some detail, I use the loRez figures found here at the store. And if they are very far away, I use the miniman and miniwoman someone was kind enough to make (can't remember where I got them, but there's a link somewhere in these forums to get them)
The miniman/woman load in at a default 10% scale size so you will need to set them to 90-100% when you load them up, and they come with a bunch of different outfits for a variety of looks.
alternatively obj exports imports with hidden polys omitted,
II have even made them in multiple poses as obj loaded as morph targets on each other for background animated characters
only simple movements as the morphing does odd things on extreme ones
How much memory do you have in your machine? If the scene exceeds the real memory you have some will be placed in virtual memory, ie on your hard drive. When you close the scene that is cleaned up, which could be the hard drive noise you are hearing.
For scenes with multiple characters, then background figures should be reduced to base resolution, and do not use any HD or high resolution textures which you would not notice anywhere if they are in the background. Consider using low poly figures if you have any. I find the Lorenzo and Loretta figures are great for this. Look at the scene below that I did a while back, whilst the two main figures are Genesis 2, the audience in the background are Loretta and Lorenzo, that is 26 figures, and the scene loads in about 4GB. I did not used instancing for the background figures in that image, but I have done in the past to further reduce memory usage. Note that the background figures in the image are still figures, if I had reduced them to props it might have saved me another 1GB, however I have a lot of memory in my new box (32GB), so I had no reason to do this.
Right now I have, I believe, 12GB, I know I don't have less than that. Oh I'm sure the hard drive is clearing all the data, it grinds for a bit. I've no doubt about that. Instancing; is that some form of copying? I've heard that off and on here on the forums but don't know what it is exactly. Thanks for the tip on Loretta and Lorenzo, right in the wishlist they went after reading the description. I was very shocked when the one promo image said there were 20 people in the image, = to around 1 or 2 regular figures. That will work right there!!!
Can't get them until around the 7th of dec though.
Predaton's stuff comes up for sale quite often, so you should get an opportunity to pick up Lorretta and Lorenzo at a good deal less than list price. On sharecg there are some nice medieval outfits for both of the figures, handy for making a crowd in period/fantasy renders. There are also uniforms for Lorenzo for battle scenes.
Instancing is where you make an exact copy of a figure or prop and place it elsewhere in the scene. Not at all suitable for foreground characters, but excellent for anything in the background. To create:
Create -> New Node Instance or Create -> New Node Instances to create more than one copy.
Each copy can be positioned, rotated, hidden, or resized separately, but the pose remains identical, as does any material settings. Not suitable for figures in the medium ground, but as distant crowd characters it does work, if you mix with other background characters that are in different poses. A pitchfork welding person in a medieval mob could be copied 2 or 3 times, and placed elsewhere in the mob at a slightly different angle, and few people will spot that you have copies in the scene.
Instancing is also very useful for props you would expect to be identical, like stacks of barrels, sections of fence etc. 10 instances of the same prop use almost the same memory as one, and that saving is also passed onto the GPU memory for iRay renders.
Like everything, instancing is only useful in certain situations, but is a very handy tool for complex scenes.
I just tried that URL and it worked for me. A lot of the scripts on the page came back as page not found but not all of them, and the convert figure to props worked. The URL it gave me is:
http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/referenceguide/scripting/api_reference/samples/nodes/convert_figure_to_props/start
I haven't tried to use the script though.
Alternatively right click on the link below and choose save as to save the dsa file containing the script
http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/referenceguide/scripting/api_reference/samples/start
there is a Convert Figure to Prop sample in the Nodes section.
Edited to replace direct link to code
Please don't link directly to the code block as it misses the description and license details.
The red links are pages that don't exist, the blue are the links that work - that's true for the wiki throughout (I think it's true of most wikis).
If you're looking to save memory; you could try using the same textures and/or shaders for multiple models, it is still possible to get some variety in (eg freckles) using the LIE. Or you could manually adjust just the diffuse texture, keeping the others the same.
I recently tried a scene with 8 clothed figues and it was just over 2GB. So it can work, but it does depend.
Thats what I was saying. The url I gave works, but a bunch on that page comes back "Page not found."
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Havos, question for you, but first don't think too much about my comment about the sale in that other thread, I could have purchased Lorenzo and Loretta during this Black Friday sale, thats just another one of my poits of frustration because I really wanted to get this package so I could complete a current wip and for future projects, but no cash, not until next week, and the kicker is the cash comes right after the sale ends, that is part of my frustration from that other thread. I lost the opportunity of getting to items I really wanted; the lorenzo bundle AND another that I never see go on sale which is an expensive item, hence part of my frustration. Anyway, I have a question for you on Lorenzo and Loretta. Can you use regular clothes bought off daz on them? Thanks
As far as using regular clothes, from other characters, it is not so simple. I do not know of any of the clothing conversion programs that work on Loretta and Lorenzo, including Wardrobe Wizard and Crossdresser and both of these cover a lot of figures.If you had Poser Pro 2014 I guess you could use the fitting room, but I have not tried this, since I do not have Poser Pro 2014.
As delivered, Loretta and Lorenzo are only useful for comtemporary shots, and they do include a lot of morphs and material options to produce differently dressed people that look okay as part of a background crowd, as seen in the image I posted above. There are some sharecg medieval outfits (I can post the links if you like), but there is not too much. I am not sure how easy it would be to make clones for these figures for autofit, but I am guessing not too easy. Another option is to use dynamic clothing, which easily fits to any figure. A crude option is to load clothing without conforming it, bend it to the pose of the lorez figure and then place if over the figure. Very crude, but you might get away with it for a figure in the far background.
btw: Predaton, the PA that does this does go on sale semi frequently, not so often as the likes of Stonemason and Zev0 that release a lot of products, but more often than the PAs that have not released anything here for years.
Off to bed now, so any further info will have to wait until tomorrow
Varsel at sharecg also has late 19th century colonial style military clothing and ACW outfits.
They are fairly easy to recolour in a paint program.
There is a better way of moving clothes to Lorenzo and Loretta inside Daz Studio. A bit more advanced, but does work to an extent. The steps are:
1) Convert Loretta/Lorenzo to Triax Weight mapping
2) Load the clothing you want to convert. Scale, and pose the clothing until it almost fits the figure (better if it is too big rather than too small)
3) Export the clothing as obj, and then re-import the obj file.
4) Use the transfer utilty to copy Lorenzo's rigging to the obj clothing item. (See http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/userguide/creating_content/rigging/tutorials/basics_initial_rig_with_transfer_utility/start)
5) Now the clothing item is a conforming clothing item for Lorenzo, apply a smoothing modifier to fix any poke through.
The fit is not the greatest, but should look just fine for a background character. To save further memory convert Lorenzo and the clothing to a prop after you have finished posing. Below is an test example I did the above steps using the Genesis Tavern Keeper shirt.
Thanks for the info. I did see them, they're not what I'm needing right now, as I'm looking for medieval clothing, but I originally made a note of those should I need that era of clothing. Thanks again.
Alright, sounds good. I found some medieval clothing for loretta over at sharecg, and I almost didn't see these particular ones for Lorenzo because they were included in a boat, but I d/l both those packages. Was there more that you knew about, or was that the same ones you knew about? My search there really only brought up the ones for Loretta if I remember right. I'm going to try to get the loretta/lorenzo package on the very next Predatron sale as soon as I get my upcoming paycheck next week. Rent and insurance has me completely tapped out right now from last weeks check.
I think you have seen all the native fit clothing I have for Loretta and Lorenzo, ie those medieval outfits, and the uniforms from Varsel. Other than that you will have to do something like I explained to move clothing from other figures, or just re-texture some of the clothing we do have. Even some of the modern clothes for these figures can be made to look medieval (at least from a distance) with a new texture and perhaps a transparency map.
You found the "Lowres medieval river ship"?
I'm pretty sure that was from sharecg as well and has three medieval male outfits.
OK so I didn't read your post above very well. It's 3.30 in the morning.
Perhaps I'll go to bed LOL