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Please discuss the ratings system, rather than getting into an argument about specific products and how they should be regarded or treated.
I had that ratings thing show up for a new product I had just bought, but for one I have also just bought, and have now used, I wanted to rate it and that rating system won't show up.
The item was https://www.daz3d.com/dforce--orly-gown-for-genesis-9 and I was very pleased with fitting it over a jumpsuit and then simulating it. Later, it rendered while I was out of the house. No issues, no explosions, no need for Mesh Grabber. I am one happy camper.
So, is this something that a PA might ask for when a product is submitted? And it might not be available for every product sold at DAZ?
Mary
V9 up to 17 ratings after my vote. Based on what other have said, might be that 10 votes needed to get a User Rating.
Bare in mind that Daz3D can see the sales, we cannot. Regardless of how much you greatly dislike something, regardless of reason, and dont want to see any more of it, complaining about it may not change anything simply because if it sells, Daz3D will keep accepting them and selling them.
They "sell" because they are the Daz+ freebies. But Richard has asked us to stop talking these.
I think without comments the rating system is pretty pointless. The main thing I want to see is potential problems (better have a beefy GPU to render this set), incompatibilites (does this script/plugin work in X version of DS), or surprising benefits (didnt realize from the description this pose set came with a bunch of props), etc. We don't get that without commentary and sure those things are discussed in the forums, but not everyone is in here everyday. Except during the main sales periods, I will step away for months at a time. But I'm always finding surprising benefits in older products, that had I known about them I would have bought them much sooner. Allowing comments would ease a lot of friction that may actually increase sales, allow us to share good finds easily with those who don't frequent the forums, give praise to PAs who deserve it and encourage them to keep going in tough times, and also offer constructive feedback when necessary.
That sort of thing is probably best in the forums, wheer people can help with issues that may be user error or suggest settings to get round things like perfomance issues.
I agree that forums are good places to ask for help, work-arounds and other information. Still, I find comments from actual users of a product are a real help in deciding whether the product is what I'm looking for. Sometimes knowing why someone gave the product a thumbs-down is good to know.
I would just like to mention all the forum threads where someone asked a question or requested a possible item type they needed and that forum grew with items not only from those previously released, but later in the future. And then when Iray was released, folks offered ways to ways to improve the looks of 3DL items in Iray (swords for instance). Or hair shaders and how to use them. I could go on. Those threads have introduced me to so many PAs I had not explored, items I might never consider for a particular (whatever), ...
I love those threads, they are the best part of these forums.
And Novica's thread offered neutral analysis of new/old products that she and others purchased and tested or used. And then she wrote out clear tutorials for folks for more complex items without manuals. I miss her thread. She didn't pull punches either.
A thumbs up/down doesn't tell me much. Especially why someone doesn't care for an item.
If the discussion/comments is going to be in the forums, it would be helpful if product pages had a link to the corresponding forum thread for that product.
Finding the forum discussion on a specific product can be a bit of a challenge sometimes, and the extra effort means I often don’t bother.
Try Daz Deals Browser Addon. That function is free and works really well. Every time a store item is linked in a forum, it gets reindexed and shortly after you can see it in the product page.
Curious what happens for a product we do not like and give 20 negative ratings. Then if some of us give the undeserving product 10 positive ratings what would happen? Would it change? What if we gave it another 10 positive and it was a tie? Reviews only work if they are honest. The fact there is a limit before population show me these reviews have an if sscenerio coded in. There are not raw results. Also overall I think this "review process DAZ has 'structured' is lame. If a product has 407 gallery entries who cares what 29 people think? Is DAZ brave and transparent enough to actually allow a brief text review and show reviews like amazon does . . . linking to a display of likes and the dislikes that created the review result?. What if we don't like a character because we have too many white models vs the palms beimg an improper representation of Black models. I think the why matters. If Daz is going to have reviews why not link to the review so we can decide if it is relevant based on our needs.EG: If a shelf bows with 20 books on it and I am going to use it for a silk plant, the weight load (flimsiness) may be irrelevant. Some sites only show positive reviews which equates to fixed reviews. I believe DAZ is above this and I hope I am right.
Duplictate post. Delete me . . . I am not worthy . . .
The fact it's abstracted behind terms like "Very Positive" doesn't make it hugely trustworthy.
Even if Daz isn't actually cheating the results at all, I don't know what "Very Positive" means. I mean, is that 75% upvotes, or is that 90% upvotes? Is that the top category, or is is there an "Overwhelmingly Positive" above it like on Steam ratings?
Honestly, as I said on Discord last night, I would consider proper integration of the gallery into the store pages (rather than as something you need Daz Deals to do) a much more meaningful metric.(Same with forum links too, I guess, but I didn't say that at the time).
Seeing how 20 people have used a product is to me more useful than knowing that 100 people upvoted it.
I feel like the gallery here is hugely underutilised as part of Daz's marketing. There's no option to follow an artist, no option to search tags (and at present, no option to *add* tags - given you're stuck with a choice of the tags the gallery had when it was rebuilt, the moment, you can't even tag a render with "Genesis 9"!!), no notifications for replies and thus no community interaction, and while you can tag products in the description, it's clunky and there's relatively little incentive to the user.
Tagging a product in your render is only maybe useful to the user themselves as a personal record of what you used; it doesn't draw any attention to your render unless another user has Daz Deals (on which note, I'll add that Daz Deals only scans each upload once - if someone later updates their used products, then Deals only goes by what it first scanned; I've had times I've tagged the wrong product because of the unfriendly interface, and Deals will then forever more link that render on the wrong product page).
Integrating the gallery into the storefront would give users more of a reason to tag products, because then people might find their work through the storefront, rather than it quickly getting buried in an unsearchable backlog.
And if more users want to tag products, more people find the gallery. I'm sure a lot of users are barely aware it exists in its current mostly hidden form - sure, we get the "Don't forget to add your work to the gallery" as a footnote when purchasing, but that hardly draws people in. With more people in the gallery, more people tagging products, and all that, you build up a spider's web of links that can draw people's attention to other products organically.
And indeed perhaps show people different ways to put things to use. As I said last night, I think a lot of promos get stuck on showing what a product is (and to be honest, some of them don't necessarily do that well at that), rather than what it can be.
The promos for DzFire's Generation 8 Female Cyborg do a decent job of showing you what you're getting, and hint that it can be combined with G8F assets.
But I've had people tell me my renders have helped them see more of what can be done with the product.
So, yes, I think integrating the gallery better into the store would be more informative, more inspiring, more trustworthy and more positive than a basic yes/no rating system.
More informative in that you can see more of what the product is like.
More inspiring in that you can see more of what you could do with the product.
More trustworthy in that obviously people have used the product enough to get an opinion on it.
More positive in that if people are using the product, they probably like it. Not to say there's no place for negative reviews, but without qualification they're generally not helpful (because often they're a magnet for "I couldn't be bothered to contact customer service to resolve an issue") and may unfairly drag down a product.
Obviously this is a larger job than "hey, how about we put in some ratings", but it's also much more useful.
Reviews have the potential to be helpful. In practice, they are a trap. Rendo has reviews. Stars, text. They also have linked gallery renders. Those can be helpful, it depends. And they're under a different tab. So, stars.... usually 5 stars, sometimes less. Text, usually a blurb. "Great character/prop" or 50 iterations of "thanks for the freebie." Actual reviews are unusual. No idea if anyone reads them. Vendor can reply. Review can be deleted.
This happened to me: A leading vendor on Rendo sells a pack of t-shirts. Vendor gave the t-shirts away free one day. I got them, was messing with them, found the included decals were ai slop. I gave a low rating and explained it's because the decals were ai generated. One of them was also fan art for popular ip. Vendor berates me for the review because the item was free. I can't say anything else. I didn't need the hassle so I deleted the review. Let buyers beware, not my problem. Everybody else says 5 stars, thanks for the gift. Whatever.
Thumbs up/down is fine. I'll not ever use them, waste of time. Also, as others mentioned above, thousands of products in my library. I'm not going back to rate them.
I guess what my policy is, I only offer reviews when I find something I want to point out about the product and I think my review will help the vendor. Otherwise, waste of time!
I do one or two freebies over at Rendo, and that sort of feedback is fantastic. It tells people about the product. A single freebie download really gives no information unless accompanied by a comment - however, something that racks up downloads is probably more popular and suiting the mood than one that doesn't. Interaction is useful. If a Freebie supplier indicates it's anything less than the best they can do, because it's only a freebie, then.. I'm really not impressed.
Over at Rendo there are thumb-ups for freebies, but I really don't know what to make of them. They are zero effort, so could well mean exactly nothing. I hope not, but I can't give them as much weighting as a comment.
I do rather feel the same about items here. I have, however, gone out of my way to thumb-up UltraScenery, because it's brilliant.
Regards,
Richard
@richardandtracy I should clarify, I'm talking primarily about paid products and paid products given away as gifts. My trouble came from a paid product given out as a gift for one day. Otherwise, yes, I agree
+1. Yesterday while downloading an order of 16 purchases from last month, that I have yet to try out, I paused at one and thought why the heck did I buy that? I don't particularly like it. Saw the like dislike button and thought that would be a trite unfair . . . I flipped back to the order and saw it was a free DAZ+ item. I checked out the gallery thinking it's probably just one of the lackluster promo images. Then I saw this and thought wow! What a brilliant use of a simplistic product.
https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/user/5742129577984000#image=1389387
Tried 3 times to embed this image but I failed. It is truly impressive . . .
I reckon this was a shocking example. It was a paid for item except on the day, so presumably the freebie was the paid for item and then the PA justified its poor quality by saying it was 'only a freebie'. And when it was paid for would it magically improve..?!? I hope you have noted the PA and never purchase anything from them again. This is exactly the sort of thing a ratings system is for. I do feel that there should be a 24 HR gate on the rating, so you have time to use the item before rating it. Regards, Richard.
A click button "Product Owned" that kicks you right to this item in your Produc Library would be helpful.
We already have a button that takes you directly to the item in your prioduct library. It is the blue square with cloud and down arrowjust to the right if the 'Product Owned'.
A button to let you add the item to your cart would be more useful!!!
It's from Daz Deals.
The ai-generated decals are part of the product - A selling point, to judge by the promo images. The shirt itself is well made. I think we're increasingly living in a time when assets with ai features - textures and eventually the mesh itself will be ai generated. So far, it's easy to tell. That may not always be the case. Then, IDK.
I'm going to add a new reason to my list:
The gallery has existed for a long time. Although not everyone uses the product tagging, quite a lot have.
Which means that if you integrate the gallery into the storefront, it *immediately* has a huge database of user contributions to draw from, and without requiring users to go back through all their favourite pre-existing products to rate them.
I think what's going to happen with this system is that huge numbers of older products that may be absolutely excellent (and still extremely useable) are going to struggle to get even a small number of votes, whereas a gallery integration would immediately present the potential of these products.
And may I add this example. No votes . . . should one buy it?
Keep in mind, the forum and gallery entries are only displayed with the Daz Deals add-on, not native to the Daz site.