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Render older generations

RavencrestRavencrest Posts: 50
in The Commons

As a general rule, would an older generation of genesis render faster than a newer? Forinstants, Genesis would render faster than G2, G2 faster than G3? I'm working on an image with lots of characters. Trying to keep render time fast so was thinking of using older generations in the background.

Comments

  • TimbalesTimbales Posts: 2,423
    I would suggest that instead of trying to render everything at the same time, doing composite of several renders instead. Setting up your render camera and environment lock it in place. Add your various characters and make them as lo-res as you can for positioning and posing. Once you have your composition set, then you can save multiples of the scene file with a focus on a couple of figures at a time. Render in small batches and combine them all in an image editing software.
  • jmucchiellojmucchiello Posts: 611

    Probably. Their textures are smaller and their number of vertices are fewer. And they don't look as good. But if you have a lot of them, Depth of field can solve a lot of those issues.

    You might also look into the Low-Pi store assets of Code 66, Feral Fey, and Lyrra Madril if you are going to need big crowds often. https://www.daz3d.com/lowpoly-crowd-creator-bundle ;

    I've mixed G1 and LowPi figures in backgrounds with G9 foreground figures.

    You might also look into Scene Optimizer for reducing texture sizes when you have a lot of distant figures.

  • RavencrestRavencrest Posts: 50

    Timbalas, I have composited renders before, especially with my older computer. This one is a little faster. 

    I have some low poly options for far distance. Also some instances. Most of the figures will be laying dead. Defenitly will use DOF. Just wondering if I can use some older geneerations for mid or closer distance characters. Thanks for the advice.

  • FirstBastionFirstBastion Posts: 8,048

    I often put Genesis 1-2 characters in the background as crowds, for just that reason,  with today's computers you can put 10-15 early generation characters in back and those generations had plenty of well made clothing items and unique hairs. And with conversion tools making it iray ready only takes a few minutes.  

  • RavencrestRavencrest Posts: 50

    Thanks FirstBastion.

  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 4,245

    I also lack patience for long renders. Time depends a lot on the lighting, shaders and features you're using.  https://www.daz3d.com/scene-optimizer can help.

  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 7,113

    Yes and No.

    Yes - if you are using small, original maps & simple shaders.

    No - if you have updated the shaders to full Iray and Uber/PDR shaders. A facet is a facet whether it was designed 20 years ago or today. It's the shader and scene complexity that ups the render  time. I have a V3 character (22 years old) I have updated to iray. The character renders at the same speed as a G8/9 character with the same shaders. The character is the one below -happens to be wearing G8F clothing, G8F hair and V3 jewellery & textures.

    Regards,

    Richard

  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,575

    Out of the box, G1 and G2 will take less resources, but if the figures are optimized, then it does not make much difference which generation you pick. G8 actual has the least polygons out of V4, M4 and G1-G9. Just pick the character (clothing etc) that has the assets you want, the optimize them by stripping out unneeded maps, reducing the texture sizes, and setting all mesh resolutions to base.

    Assuming you have a lot more G8 characters and morphs than the others, then the scene will likely take a lot longer to load if your background characters are G8, even if they have been optimized. The only way to speed that up is to convert your background characters to props. Then they will load super fast.

  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,575

    jmucchiello said:

    Probably. Their textures are smaller and their number of vertices are fewer. And they don't look as good. But if you have a lot of them, Depth of field can solve a lot of those issues.

    You might also look into the Low-Pi store assets of Code 66, Feral Fey, and Lyrra Madril if you are going to need big crowds often. https://www.daz3d.com/lowpoly-crowd-creator-bundle ;

    I've mixed G1 and LowPi figures in backgrounds with G9 foreground figures.

    You might also look into Scene Optimizer for reducing texture sizes when you have a lot of distant figures.

    Actually the older generations have more vertices than G8, not less, but only at base resolution. G8 characters by default often load with a higher level of sub-D than older generations do, but this is easy to change.

  • mdingmding Posts: 1,650

    Havos said:

     The only way to speed that up is to convert your background characters to props. Then they will load super fast.

    Now that sounds like a great idea - many thanks! 

  • jmucchiellojmucchiello Posts: 611

    Havos said:

    The only way to speed that up is to convert your background characters to props. Then they will load super fast.

    I've never noticed this to be true. The props still have all the vertices and polygons. You just can't move them. 

  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 7,113
    edited October 31

    However, there is no rigging, no skeleton & no weight maps to clutter up the load with additional invisible information. All of this is loaded as text (even if compressed) and then converted to binary to be used in the machine, at least 2 weight maps per bone + JCM's plus morph channels plus plus plus. It probably does take less time to load as a prop, however with the speed of current computers and SSD's, it's possible the time saved is not really noticable to those with a good new machine. Those with an older machine may notice it more.

    Regards,

    Richard

     

    Post edited by richardandtracy on
  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,575

    richardandtracy said:

    However, there is no rigging, no skeleton & no weight maps to clutter up the load with additional invisible information. All of this is loaded as text (even if compressed) and then converted to binary to be used in the machine, at least 2 weight maps per bone + JCM's plus morph channels plus plus plus. It probably does take less time to load as a prop, however with the speed of current computers and SSD's, it's possible the time saved is not really noticable to those with a good new machine. Those with an older machine may notice it more.

    Regards,

    Richard


     

    It will be very noticeable if you have a lot of G8 characters and expressions. I have a fast machine and I still need 20-30s to load a fresh G8F. Now put 10 or more of these in the scene, and the scene load time will be several minutes. If the G8F were props all 10 would load in seconds.

  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,575

    jmucchiello said:

    Havos said:

    The only way to speed that up is to convert your background characters to props. Then they will load super fast.

    I've never noticed this to be true. The props still have all the vertices and polygons. You just can't move them. 
     

    For render time and VRAM resources used during the render, you are correct that being props does not help much. However RAM usage will be much less, and when loading the scene it will take far less time.

  • memcneil70memcneil70 Posts: 5,289

    Have you thought about creating billboards of your characters and using them in the background? A search on -creating your own billboards in DAZ3d- brought up a number of methods from assets you can buy to other methods.

  • jmucchiellojmucchiello Posts: 611

    richardandtracy said:

    However, there is no rigging, no skeleton & no weight maps to clutter up the load with additional invisible information. All of this is loaded as text (even if compressed) and then converted to binary to be used in the machine, at least 2 weight maps per bone + JCM's plus morph channels plus plus plus. It probably does take less time to load as a prop, however with the speed of current computers and SSD's, it's possible the time saved is not really noticable to those with a good new machine. Those with an older machine may notice it more.

    Regards,

    Richard

     

    I have made images with figures converted to props. As I said, I never noticed them loading much faster. Perhaps it is the speed of my machine because what you're saying make sense. I've just never noticed it. I did manage to have 32 G9 figures turned to props in a single scene (doubled with instances). And since the props shared a lot of textures (statues), no problem rendering it.

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