Can Mada Hair really look like what is shown in ColorWerks Hair Shaders?

Jan_Scrapper · October 28

Mada Hair Genesis 3 Female(s), Genesis 2 Female(s) and V4 | Daz 3D

ColorWerks Hair Shaders for Iray | Daz 3D

I want long flowing hair for my little witch riding on a broom :)

I have played and played with Mada Hair by Goldtassel. It must have taken a long time to get the hair this perfect. Most hair gets really distorted when you increase the length like this.

I want hair that makes a statement like this...to be the part of the magic in the art! I don't want the hair sticking out straight. I want it literally flowing with curves. I might have to do it in postwork.

Leni Hair is the most perfect flowing hair that I have ever seen. I hate to use that hair every time I want gorgeous, long, flowing hair.

I have 15 pages of hair in my Product Library. I have 619 Hair Products in the store, so there are many that aren't even in the store. And that doesn't even include hair products I have purchased on other site in the last 20 years. I have to justify having so much hair by using the other products :)

I have looked and looked for gorgeous flowing-in-the-wind hair. I love the Turbulent Hair series. Turbulent Long Hair for Genesis 3 and 8 Females | Daz 3D

However, I want flowing, not just sticking out :(

Thank you for all of your help!

memcneil70 · October 28

I fooled around with the 'Special' colors that are included and then found the masks. Along with 'Fantasy Colors' I think you could mix yourself a wonderful hair color. The movement of the hair... well I leave that to you. :-) There is a long list of morphs included with it. Goldtassel did a wonderful job creating a versatile hair for G2F and G3F.

Mary

Jan_Scrapper · October 28

Mary, thank you so much!! I am such a fan of Goldtassel. She has made wonderful hair forever. I have 111 Hair products of hers. That is crazy!!!

memcneil70 · October 28

No not crazy, a fantastic investment!

Jan_Scrapper · October 28

Thank you!! I am probably not the only one with a lot of hair LOL

memcneil70 · October 28

Well my newest computer has 1392 hairs installed. I did a check on DIM before I closed it and there were over 500 I didn't install (some may have been chairs though). I tried a G3F hair on G9F yesterday with autofit and every morph worked. Love the new autofit for hairs.

Jan_Scrapper · October 28

You know what!!! I didn't check for chairs LOL I certainly have some :)

Ok, so you have a lot of hair products, too :) I love hair, what can I say? The funny thing is, I have always had fine, thin hair IRL :( Now, at 70 years old, my hair is white and short...to my scalp...so I can wear a wig...one of twenty or so LOL. Yep, collecting wigs in real life :)

My mom was a hairdresser when I was little and that made me love hair even more.

memcneil70 · October 28

I am 73, fine thin hair, and it is salt and pepper, with a hint of brown. No wigs, learned that lesson back in 1971 when one blew off my head. My aunt was a hairdresser and every summer would cut out the Shirley Temple perm my mother would inflict on me at the start of the school year. I hated it. Never could keep a hair style. Since the early '80s have had short hair so I could easily get into a gas mask and get a seal. Later, it was just easier as my hair does not style. But it does get cold in Denver. So I have half a drawer of ski hats, along with gloves.

Havos · October 28

Have you considered using one of Linday's dynamic cloth hairs? These are long hairs, and should play better with wind during a simulation than dForce hair using strand based tech. Add a few wind nodes close to the head, then play with the strengths until you get the effect you want.

Jan_Scrapper · October 28

My mom kept my hair permed and my bangs cut so short LOL

Jan_Scrapper · October 28

I just tried Primavera Hair with DForce, which I so love. Linday's hair products are so wondeful.

I think I am going to work with Mada hair a little longer, since my little witch flying is MW Candy for Genesis 9 | Daz 3D. She is so young, I'm afraid Primavera Hair would overwelm her.

Plus, I think I did the wind force wrong. It was taking forever, so I gave up. Have you guys tried Preimavera Hair with wind? I am going to try again, when I have more time to work with it.

mding · October 28

@Jan_Scrapper: My experience with older hair is that you normaly need to postwork a bit (hair brushes and retouching) if you want the "perfect" look. Here I had to use the geometry editor to erase two big "faults", but as you can see, without PW, it is hard to make it look really good so close up. Personally, although I would like to be able to do such PW, I don't really mind such imperfection, but after seeing some of your renders in your gallery, I know, you are on another level..

Jan_Scrapper · October 28

mding said:

@Jan_Scrapper: My experience with older hair is that you normaly need to postwork a bit (hair brushes and retouching) if you want the "perfect" look. Here I had to use the geometry editor to erase two big "faults", but as you can see, without PW, it is hard to make it look really good so close up. Personally, although I would like to be able to do such PW, I don't really mind such imperfection, but after seeing some of your renders in your gallery, I know, you are on another level..

You did a wonderful job with this hair! I have never used the geometry editor. What faults did you erase? I have a ton of Instant Hair from Rendo. I do think I will postwork it. So, I guess it's not taboo to post work hair if I am not that good at things.

Oh, my goodness...no, no....I am NOT on another level...unless it is low LOL LOL

Gee, I want to be a good artist so badly. I really think some of the art I so love here and other galleries has a lot of postwork that I don't kow how to do. I am not gifted that way.

I used to get Teen Magazines when I was young. There were art school advertisements and there would be a hand drawing of a girl with a ponytail. How many times I tried to draw that. I tried to draw every one that was advertised in the Teen Magazines. I was probably 10 years old. NEVER good at art, ALWAYS was to be an artisit.

mding · October 28

@Jan_Scrapper: Many thanks for your kindness, but compared to me, trust me, you definitely are on another level. The hair doesn't have faults, but when you use the morphs, that may lead to weird looking parts - in my case two, which I erased. If you postwork you might not need to do that and imo it is the better, more professional solution with older hair. Unfortunately it is too late for me now, but tomorrow I can make a quick explanation of using the geometry editor with hair, it is very easy.

Jan_Scrapper · October 28

mding said:

@Jan_Scrapper: Many thanks for your kindness, but compared to me, trust me, you definitely are on another level. The hair doesn't have faults, but when you use the morphs, that may lead to weird looking parts - in my case two, which I erased. If you postwork you might not need to do that and imo it is the better, more professional solution with older hair. Unfortunately it is too late for me now, but tomorrow I can make a quick explanation of using the geometry editor with hair, it is very easy.

You are so awesome to build my confidence up. I do think I am doing better than even a few months ago. :)

Thank you so much for your advice!

FirstBastion · October 29

I am guilty of buying a dis-proportionate number of hair products too!

mding · October 29

@Jan_Scrapper: Geometry Editor First Steps:

First activate the "Tool Settings Tab" by either clicking on the icon or on the tab itself

Now click on the node you want to edit (mada hair) in the scene tab:

In my case, I don't want so much hair in the lower face area:

Now I have to select what I want to remove. First Right Click inside the viewport and choose drag selection:

Then click on the hair you want to remove and grow the selection with "CMD" or "CTRL" and "+" at the same time (you have to use the "+" on the numpad at the far right for your keybord) until all is yellow, which you want:to remove:

Now right click again in the viewport and choose "Hide Selected Polygon(s)":

Turn to Iray to see if it is to your liking. If you are content delete selected polygons and save, as you can't save hidden polygons, so your changes would be lost after saving without deleting:

You can see, the mouth area is not covered any longer by that hair:

The geometry editor is really quite easy to use once you get used to it and there is so much you can do with that, so much more options you got. If you have problems or further question just ask me!

And I heartily recommend esha's tutorial https://www.daz3d.com/daz-studio-training-intermediate-02--tweaking-the-geometry as I recommend all her tutorials, without being in any way affiliated to her, I am not receiving anything for this recommendation.

Artini · October 29

Jan_Scrapper said:

My mom kept my hair permed and my bangs cut so short LOL

I have had a similar photo taken with the telephone, when I was a kid.

Artini · October 29

Great tutorial, @mding

IceDragonArt · October 29

mding said:

@Jan_Scrapper: Geometry Editor First Steps:

First activate the "Tool Settings Tab" by either clicking on the icon or on the tab itself

Now click on the node you want to edit (mada hair) in the scene tab:

In my case, I don't want so much hair in the lower face area:

Now I have to select what I want to remove. First Right Click inside the viewport and choose drag selection:

Then click on the hair you want to remove and grow the selection with "CMD" or "CTRL" and "+" at the same time (you have to use the "+" on the numpad at the far right for your keybord) until all is yellow, which you want:to remove:

Now right click again in the viewport and choose "Hide Selected Polygon(s)":

Turn to Iray to see if it is to your liking. If you are content delete selected polygons and save, as you can't save hidden polygons, so your changes would be lost after saving without deleting:

You can see, the mouth area is not covered any longer by that hair:

The geometry editor is really quite easy to use once you get used to it and there is so much you can do with that, so much more options you got. If you have problems or further question just ask me!

And I heartily recommend esha's tutorial https://www.daz3d.com/daz-studio-training-intermediate-02--tweaking-the-geometry as I recommend all her tutorials, without being in any way affiliated to her, I am not receiving anything for this recommendation.

Thank you for this!

mding · October 29

Holy moly, what happened to my tutorial ! Images reuploaded, I hope it stays now, but will check later.

Many thanks @Artini and @IceDragonArt, I hope the images weren't already gone when you read the tutorial!

Jan_Scrapper · October 29

I am so late getting here today!! I am so sorry!

mding Thank you so much for this wondeful tutorial. I am going to save this! I actually have used Cararra to remove polygons. That is all I know how to do in Cararra!

If I want a bow that is attached to a dress, and I don't want to hide the dress, I cut the dress out in Cararra!!!

This is fantastic!! I had no idea I could do something like that! I purchased Mesh Grabber when it was on sale, however it's still sitting on my computer, not even installed :(

So, I wonder if I could use this for hair sticking out of a hat!!! There are so many things I could use that for!!!

Artini That is so funny about the telephone picture. I guess a lot of photographers used that idea LOL

You guys have been so great helping with this!! Thank you so much!

mding · October 29

@Jan_Scrapper: Wow, if you can cararra, that is of course even better, I didn't know that! Still, for smaller stuff, it might be easier to use geometry editor. And yes, hair sticking out or skin poking through the surface can be removed this way and of course with mesh grabber also.

Jan_Scrapper · October 29

Yes, Cararra is a pain if I can just do the same thing in DS. You have opened a new world for me!!!

chris-2599934 · October 29

Jan_Scrapper said:

Plus, I think I did the wind force wrong. It was taking forever, so I gave up. Have you guys tried Preimavera Hair with wind? I am going to try again, when I have more time to work with it.

I've always struggled to get dforce wind to work the way I want it to. What I do instead is tilt the subject so that the way the "wind" is blowing is straight down, then run a normal dforce simulation. Once done, I return the character to its original orientation and hey presto! wind-blown hair, cloaks or whatever. Here's an example of that technique in action.

And, yeah, hair addiction, it's a thing. If I go to the hair page of the shop and hide the items I own, it shows just 4115 of 5438 of the items currently on sale. Which means I've got about 1300 before you start counting the stuff removed from the shop or on sale elsewhere!

Jan_Scrapper · October 30

chris-2599934 said:

Jan_Scrapper said:

Plus, I think I did the wind force wrong. It was taking forever, so I gave up. Have you guys tried Preimavera Hair with wind? I am going to try again, when I have more time to work with it.

I've always struggled to get dforce wind to work the way I want it to. What I do instead is tilt the subject so that the way the "wind" is blowing is straight down, then run a normal dforce simulation. Once done, I return the character to its original orientation and hey presto! wind-blown hair, cloaks or whatever. Here's an example of that technique in action.

And, yeah, hair addiction, it's a thing. If I go to the hair page of the shop and hide the items I own, it shows just 4115 of 5438 of the items currently on sale. Which means I've got about 1300 before you start counting the stuff removed from the shop or on sale elsewhere!

Thank you so much for your post!! That is just awesome:) I love your girl's cape blowing in the wind!!! Excellent, excellent idea. I am going to try that!

Yep, the hair. It is, indeed, a thing. What others don't understand is there are MANY differences in our hair products. LOL :)

memcneil70 · October 30

Remember the sale page is an approximate count as some assets you may own are not counted as they are no longer in the store as the PAs have left the store, or you bought some from another source.

WendyLuvsCatz · October 30

Jan_Scrapper said:

Yes, Cararra is a pain if I can just do the same thing in DS. You have opened a new world for me!!!

it's less of a pain than Hexagon

saying that as a Carrara user who wants to use Hexagon too but get endlessly frustrated

as for Blender ...well

I am not willing to subscribe and pay monthly for the DAZ studio Mesh grabber tools, I bought Carrara 15 years ago with a few updates but not in a long time sadly but it still does more than Mesh Grabber

oh and I do use the Geometry editor

just hope DAZ doesn't get the bright idea to lock that and other tools behind a subscription paywall

midgard229 · October 30

I'm very anti post work for myself, and I love hair so usually the best thing for flowing nice hair is dForce imo. Takes a lot of trial and error for Sim settings but you can get amazing results.

Some examples of mine below