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I hope they take the positive. It it sells well, that's good for them, but there are a number of others who would have bought it if...
But should I just keep quiet?
It's good to compare it with i13; his/her products are always great value, with well done poses and an interesting prop. I own a lot of that PAs items, some of which I rarely use, but I often buy becuase I know they'll be both well done and good value.
Completely agree. I was really pleased when I saw it, I have a story that needs a good hospital scene, what I've managed with combining other props and scenes wasn't quite right. Sadly, as it stands, I don't consider this to be worth it: cost of product V tweaking it will need. Which is why I compared it with Stonemason, tweaking of his products involves deleteing parts to save memory, or moving and rotating. That's the level of quality I expect when I'm being asked to buy a $30 plus item. I ignore discount, certainly on new products, as that ensures I maintain a fairly consistent set of standards I apply to items.
Reading all this, I recall an old wish I've been sendin DAZ's way: A ranking and reviewing system for the DAZ products, so that you might read what others have written before you go ahead and shop.
I remember buying some Scifi corridors a while back which were a real let down with sloppy modelling and texturing and would have taken so much work to look good that I gave up and simply deleted them. (It was too late to return them at the time I got around testing them) A ranking and reviewing system would've made me perhaps saving my money or at least warning others from wasting theirs. And if we would have to be logged in to place reviews and rankings, we could get rid of anoonymous slandering or buddy-backscratching.
I finally got that really long-winded render into an acceptable state, and gave the hospital room a go.
Then I had a go at the sales team in the form of telling them exactly what I thought of it, although in words that would be acceptable in polite company. I'm hoping that the Sales team shares the better-written comments they get on the refund requests with the PA in question, so he knows why a bunch of people bought it and then asked for their store credits. I can see that he meant well, and genuinely had a good idea that hadn't much been covered otherwise.
All that stuff I said upthread about it maybe being workable with a little elbow grease? I take it all back. It's the proverbial hot mess. Nothing against the guy, but this freshman outing isn't what I'd call stellar. Maybe next time.
This hospital bed has a pretty decent morphing blanket if I recall.
http://www.daz3d.com/hospital-bed
Hi, everyone!
Thanks for the feedback! I have read everyone’s opinions and suggestions here. I will make note of them all and push myself to pay better attention to the details in future releases. I am always looking to improve, so I really do appreciate the feedback and I take nothing personally. :)
Best regards to everyone,
- Notilize
I didn't realize that the vendor was the one who set the price. With all of the controls that Daz has about what they accept for sale, I would have thought that they were the ones to set prices of the products. Are vendors given some type of guideline as to what is proper price for particular types of packages? or can they set whatever price they want? Personally, while I like the room, I already had a perfectly good hospital bed, the same one linked above. I can't really see paying that price on something that I only liked one part of.
I might be spoiled by other vendors who are put so much more detail into their work (FirstBastion, Stonemason, Jack Tomalin, Ironman13, etc) and even though these vendors are my favorites and I have a bought out most of their stores, I never pay that much for their products because I'm cheap. These people set the bar when it comes to a quality set. Even you Fisty along with a few others in your category, with your characters (of which I own way too many
) set the bar in your category of product. I have to admit that, when I look at any other products, I compare most of my purchases against my favorite vendors and how they stack up compared to the price currently offered decides whether I actually put it in my cart. I had this in my cart just for the room (I really did not like that bed as I saw way too many things wrong with it), but price and comparability, with other vendors who have consistently made more detailed products, made me take it out of the cart and decide not to buy.
Daz will tell us if it's too low, I assume they'll tell us if it's too high as well, but unless it's into Turbo Squid terrotory of ridiculouslness it's our choice. They've also been crazy busy with the sales the last couple of months, it's possible this one would have gotten a recomendation for a lower price point but slipped through the cracks. I doubt Notilize would have ignored a strong suggestion from Daz with his/her first product.
I suspect good morphing blankets are really hard. Personally, that was 90% of why I grabbed dynamic stuff, was just for sheets and blankets. (Although, admittedly, it's tricky to get 'tucked in' blankets with dynamics... not impossible, but hard.)
Although I wonder, with the poke through... have people been setting collision? Collision should be able to get feet covered up, although there can be texture problems.
@Notilize3D
Thank you for taking the trouble - and being brave enough - to respond to the thread. :)
I agree a facility to like and dislike with a small amoung for constructive feedback would be great. I imagine it would be time-consuming to police.
It's not making the morphs for the sheet that's the hard part, that can be done in minutes with d-formers or the hex/zbrush bridge, or a couple minutes more if you model with a program that doesn't have a bridge to DS. It's that there are millions of ways to pose a figure laying down, not to mention the height/width difference between the different figures. The only really good way to do a product with sheets/blankets is to have it come with poses for the leading male and female figures and have morphs for those specific poses in the sheet/blanket. The only other options are to litter the item with a bucket load of morphs that raise little areas of the sheet (very hard to use for the customer), or do like Notilize did and include a few very generic ones. Now I'm good at modeling, I could have (fairly) easily modeled this set, but I utterly suck at posing. A lot of people are the same, good at some things but not good at others even in a little subset of skills as small as this. If I had made this set I would have contacted my PA friends that are good at poses and seen if any of them wanted to make a set of hospital bed poses. A new PA isn't going to have the connections a long term one does so in that case I think he/she did a fine job.
(ppst, Notilize, if you need contacts to pose maker in the future let me know, the customers love a good bundle)
The sheet isn't a separate item, but part of the bed.
Normally, i would've just hidden the body parts in question, but it was to illustrate that there is a problem with shorter character, and inability to adapt the bump location.
for beds, I usually utilize the Vicky 6 sheet by Oscarsson, though I wished there was something similar for G2M. That would be instant buy. :-)
Thanks for answering in this thread.
I really liked the idea of the hospital room, and hope you won't feel discouraged by what was written. Your set has a lot of positive points, which made me buy it in the first place. But in the end, things like materials (btw, when using light emitters, make sure you set them to one-sided, because two-sided will increase render times), and the bed sheet morphs, combined with the price, was what made me return it.
i hope to see more of your products in the future, because I see the potential in your work. :-)
Just have to give credit where credit is due, Fred Winkler and Sabby make the characters, I help with skin shaders, extra accessories, and the occational specialty morph. My focuses are jewelry, clothes, and shaders. I've only ever made one characters that I consider my own way back when for Genesis 1 (see avatar) I'm working on a 2nd currently but it's slow going.
I've been playing with morphs and they aren't all that hard to learn how to do, just time consuming to get it right. D-formers seem to be the easiest way and I've had some success with that. I've also tried doing some morphs in Hexagon and that seems to be a little harder. It is a skill worth learning. I, actually, had a harder time getting the dynamic stuff to work properly. I finally got it after finding a few good tutorials.
The problem I have with Dformers and morphs in general is that anything with a texture (like fabric) tends to distort. Dynamic is a bit better at keeping textures mostly intact.
Morphs aren't hard to do in Hexagon, I figured it our; they can however be time-consuming to get right.
It's true that some of the better products combine the tallents of two or more PAs. I suppose for a PA, it isn't how much an item sells for, but the expected total return; that must be hard to judge. And from what other PAs have said, most of the sales happen in the first couple of months? So gauging it must be a real pain.
deleted by OP
Thanks for recommending Sleeping Late, I've wishlisted it. Does anyone know if it's affected by character morphs though? It actually says on the product page that you need to use the default V6 shape, but Studio has made some advancements when it comes to morph following and collision detection since. If it's a prop that has posing presets though and does not conform, I suppose it wouldn't.
Good on you for popping in and acknowledging people's feedback. The best PAs are the ones who communicate with their customers and listen to what they have to say, even if its negative feedback. It couldn't have been easy though
I thought the hospital room was a good idea; just a little on the basic side with some of the models and textures (ie the chair) and too pricey.
@Notilize3D As far as advice, I'd like to suggest a few things...
1) Put each wall on a separate material zone. If someone needs space for a large scene (or a promo, as I tried to do), they can remove a wall to get the camera in there and have a larger selection of angles to best show off the product.
2) Rig movement wherever possible: If the head end of the matress had been rigged, we could have kept the pillow in place a bit easier, which leads into the third thing...
3) Small items will survive better as props-- the pillow would have been better this way, as props are parented realtive to the bone, wheras a figure is conformed by matching the bone positions. In fact, unless you need to be able to pose it or conform it to something else, best to make it a prop.
4) The blanket should have been a separate figure, with collision, smoothing modifiers, a character rig if you're okay with semi-complicated (and don't mind rigging the same item three or four times). At that point, one might be able to abuse autofit to handle posing morphs. At that point the customer can generate the morphs to fit the scene, and life is better.
Of course, autofit can be a hair squirrelly, so do test that a bit before pushing the critter out the door. If you need poses or characters for test or pack-in, feel free to give me a jingle.
I don't know if even I would try #4 and I've been making clothing for a long time now.. *strokes chin* Would have to have a shader mixer texture that used projection 'cause that would utterly destroy the uv mapping in places like if you spread the legs much. Would also have to have several different rigs, at least two for the arms in or out of the covers. Overall sounds like a nightmare, and a very cool idea but completely not worth the time and effort vs beans (universal full time PA currency - will this be enough to feed me this month) I'm not sure it could even be done well enough to pass QA, seems very prone to error.
You can force unconformed props to use smoothing/collition, it's very handy.. but you have to have the smoothing higher than zero for the collision to kick in. So wouldn't work with the blanket being the same prop as the bed, it would likely mess up all those nice modeled in details.
I'm tempted to buy this item and try the blanket with Wrinkle3D for appropriate morphs. But then again, that seems like a little too much work just to get proper draping morphs :/
I considered using a dynamic sheet with it, but it's a lot to pay, if it needs so much work; 35 I expect to be able to load and do some renderers by just adding a fugure.
I admit it's not something I've tried mself, but it should work in theory. Whether or not it'd be worth doing is another matter entirely, I suppose... As for being able to force props to use collision and smoothing, that I did not know. It would be quite a bit simpler, 'tis true. I'm just learning the whole clothing game, so I'm prone to imagining things that might work and not be entirely practical. As for the first part of number four, I stand by that a hundred percent... The blanket/sheet should have been a separate object, be it prop or figure.
Yes, that would make it very easy to get rig of and use a dynamic sheet in DS -- or, if it had a morph to raise the whole sheet above the figure by a few inches extra you could use the dynamics in Poser to drape it.
Agree, a seperate sheet would also make it easier to hide, when contemplating using dynamics.
I tend to agree as I've had quite a few mishaps with 'smeared' fabric texture. However, with care, it can be done. One just has to make sure that the don't stretch the UV in the wrong direction while doing a morph.
@Notilize 3D Such a brave soul to be posting. It can be rough here in the forums for PAs sometimes. It says a lot about your character that you responded with such grace. I agree with Fisty that pairing up with someone who excels at posing and making morphs for the blanket and pillow to accompany the poses would have been a huge point in this packages favor. There are some really good PAs here who do excellent poses. I don't tend to buy poses as much as I used to because I'm doing a fairly good job at posing myself these days. However, I do have some favorites and will buy a pose pack from a vendor who has really good poses especially if it includes stuff to go with the poses. Conversely, if I'm on the fence about a particular purchase, added poses are a huge benefit and would probably tip the scale in whether or not it goes in my cart. If posing isn't your strong suit pairing up with someone who excells at it might be something you might consider in the future. Just so you know, I will probably buy this set for the room, eventually. when I can get it at a cheaper price. I really do like the room and some of the accessories. I look forward to seeing what you bring us in the future.
Good to know. I love love Sabby's work. I have bought models from both here and her shop over at Renderosity. I wasn't sure how you guys break down the creative duties. I do have a lot of the jewelry from your shop. And shaders are one of those things that I haven't ventured into so PAs like you that make shaders are my favorites. I do love that most of the characters that I've bought from your combined talents have added high quality accessories. A girl does need extra bling sometimes.
Also agree, distortion is often a problem. It just adds to the amount of time fixing it takes.
I might get it later because I need a hospital bed like that.
I will just leave the bed made in empty setting and use my own rigged sheet. But that is me.