Is LIE Wound Makeup Artist more indepth than LIE Wound Pack?
WillowRaven
Posts: 3,787
in The Commons
I already have LIE Wound Pack, but the promos for LIE Wound Makeup Artist seem a bit 'more' Am I right, or are they the same?
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I have both of these. There are more wounds in the new version, but it also applies differently. It doesn't use LIE, but can accessed from your Smart Content or folders tab. Once applied, you can also changed your character's skin without affecting the wounds you've already placed on the character.
Awesome. I don't use smart content tab, though. Where do I find it? In Daz content tab or Poser content tab?
Ack!!! I LOVE IT!!! And I just tried the smart content option for the first time. Made it easy. Excited I got it. It will work perfect for my cover project. Thanks for the help :D
BTW ... can I layer these like the old set? I'm going to have to see if a tut came with it so I can figure out how to move some of these exactly where I want them.
Glad I could help. You can also find it through your folders tab. I don't use the Smart tab much. I usually have nothing but problems finding my stuff that way. I don't know if it can be layered like the LIE version. I'm still playing with it and learning how to use it. I only cranked a couple of wounds on a test run when I first got it and haven't used it in an actual render yet.
You know, it's funny, I got the face/body scar decals, and I'm actually finding it easier to apply with LIE than as a geoshell -- trying to get the geoshell skin appearance to merge smoothly proved just about impossible.
I haven't really had a chance to play with it so I haven't noticed a problem. Have been concentrating on a couple of renders for contests and none of them had needed battle wounds. I will definitely have to play around with it. I like LIE now that I know how to use. But I thought the new set was interesting and bought it on sale. Will have to give it a go in the next few days when I'm done with my current renders. Post of picture of what you have so I know what to look out for when I start to really play with it. Maybe I can help you figure it out.
This is the guy I did up today.
Here is the final cover art and using both LIE Wound Makeup Artist and LIE Wound Pack. I think it worked great for my needs. I can't find a tutorial, though, so I can learn how to move wounds around where I want them. Any suggestions?
Hope ya'll like my latest cover :D
I can't even see a problem until I blow it up full screen. Then yeah, I can see the edges. I'll play around with it and see if I have the same problems. In the meantime, you might want to watch this video. Simon has some tips to fix the geometry shell in Iray. There isn't sound and I have to admit to only bookmarking it to watch it later when I'm actually playing with the wounds. There might be something in there for your problem.
Love the cover, Willow. As for a tutorial, I haven't seen one. But this pic from the product page shows how to move the wounds around. Basically, click on the wound, go under surfaces, and use the sliders to move things around. Make sure you are working on moving the wound shell and not something else.
Actually, the face I showed doesn't use geoshells, it uses layers. What I was doing with Geoshells looked godawful.
But I might just need to keep poking at it. ;)
No wonder I had a hard time picking out the edges until I blew it up!! I didn't want to say, but I thought you were being a little picky.
That makes me feel a little better, actually. I thought I was going to be looking for phantom problems. Show me a render with the geoshell!! so I can see what it looks like when you try to render it. I haven't had anything look that awful with the little bit I've been playing with. It might be an easy fix.
Yeah, I'll make a copy with how it looks normally...
Actually, after some experimenting, I'm finding the geoshell pretty good. Heh. The trick was that I wanted to get rid of the diffuse map (which was a wet-looking wound with gloss baked in, which I wasn't interested in).
What I needed to do was first play with the Iray settings to be more like the underlying skin (the natural translucency was way too high), and then carefully find the right skin color to use -- what I did was get the diffuse map of the face skin, sample an appropriate location, and then lighten it by 10 value. That seemed to be right.
I wonder if the wounds can be moved to areas other than the original surface area, as in, I wonder if a face wound can be moved to a leg.
I don't see why not. What I'd try is copying the face of the geoshell and pasting it to the leg. You might need to scale it down (set tiling to .5 or something), and then move it around. I'll test it after this render.
Ah, ok, here's my render. Geoshells not bad after all. Heh. I also used some collision to eliminate some minor pokethrough.
I'm pretty happy with this result.
Hmm. Moving scars to the legs seem... problematic.
I don't think they look too bad at all. They actually even look raised like actual scars would look. I'm definitely going to have to do a scarred up warrior in the next day or two. I just finished up my current renders so I can start something new. I think I'll play around with this tomorrow.
Yeah, it took a LITTLE tweaking to get it right, but I feel it was a good investment.
I'm a trifle surprised there aren't gunshot scars or wounds in the decals I got; I might have to ALSO pick up the wound makeup artist, too (since it seems to have them).
You know, I wasn't interested in these two items until I read this thread. thanks a lot. Lol. Added to my wish list
Yeees, yeees...
(rubs hands together)
Glad I've possibly inspired a sale :D
Yeah, I just picked up the LIE WOUND MAKEUP ARTIST pack (it was on slightly better sale combined with the G3F medieval dress, which itself was only about $3, so what the hey)
Playing with it... very happy I did. Between this and the wound decals and Severed Man I have pretty much all the horrible damage I need to inflict on characters.
Glad to know we've helped to corrupt you.
Yeah, I have all of the packages. Just have to find the time to play with them. I did a little playing around putting wounds on Atticus last night. Not ready to render yet, but maybe by the end of the day I'll have something to post. I'm trying it out in Iray which I hadn't done yet. I haven't tried out severed man yet. So many renders, so little time and all that.
What I did for Iray was... I have a skin material saved as a preset that applies the normal Iray Optimized Skin values, with no maps. I then apply that for tricky stuff (like Genesis, or whatever).
So I just selected the wound, applied preset, bam. I usually find it useful to dampen the translucency, and I usually move the bump map to the displacement map (min 0 max .3 usually works, and be sure to set subd to 3)
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Good to know. I'll see what happens when I go to render. I'm sure I'll have to do some tweaking with skins. I'm not sure if I have a preset like that, but with the Iray skin presets that I have I'm sure there is something there I can use. If not, I will figure it out. I'm getting better at doing such things.
It really doesn't take much. I think I got a rather decent result just applying Iray Uber shader to the base, so.
First, before I forget, I found a tutorial for the Wound Makeup Artist. Okay, so I've been playing around with this in both 3Delight and Iray. Since it is optimized for 3Delight, it makes sense that it does look better with that rendering engine. I put multiple wounds on the face to see the effect because I know how multiple wounds work with the LIE product. I, personally, like LIE and have even made a few things of my own to use with it. So the first renders (OutbackWarrior01 and 02) are with wounds from Wound Makeup Artist. They look as good as I would expect them look. There are multiple wounds and I didn't have to fiddle with the offset under the parameters tab to get them to work. The same wounds under Iray did not fair as well. OutbackWarrior03 is rendered in Iray. First I had to change the light setup and get rid of some of the background because the Australian Outback has a dome and I haven't been able to get those working in Iray yet. So, the background is different and I changed the lighting. Zapped all surfaces with the ultra magic Iray Uber Shader thingy and then rendered. And my first render, blew big time!!! The wounds didn't show up and what did looked terrible. So, played with the mesh offset slider under the parameters tab. All of them are set at .50 as a default. So, not knowing any better, I change each one so that they are off by a little. Only maybe it wasn't so little because since the default was.50, I changed to others to 1.00 and 1.50 and that was definitely the wrong way to go!!! As you can see, the geometry shell is set too far away from the base shell of the character. You can see space between the G2 male and the scar which is never good. So I found the above linked tutorial and after reading it, set the offsets to more reasonable numbers. I set the offsets to 0.01, 0.02, and 0.03 and that offset the wounds just enough that they didn't impede each other and they were all closer to the skin (OutbackWarrior04 and OutbackWarrior06). One thing to note: I also had a bruise on G2M's neck. (I didn't have this in the 3Delight renders) This doesn't show up well in Iray. I can see the bruise, but I know where to look. I think it would be missed by anyone looking at the render who didn't know there was a bruise there. The tutorial seems to indicate that LIE can be used to modify all of the scars and cuts in the diffuse channel. I might try to see if I can darken up the bruise so that it pops out more using the gamma setting or something. I don't know if that will work, but I might give it a try. It is possible that the bruises just don't render well with this particular skin or doesn't do well in Iray.
I also tried out the Face Scars and Decals and Body Scars and Decals by Smay which I had also bought awhile ago, but hadn't had a chance to play with. Will, you got better results than I did, so I will have to go in and adjust the scars and skin tones (at least in Iray) so that they match whatever character's skin tones I happen to be using them with. The render, OutbackWarrior 05, is just out of the box render in Iray. I always like seeing what a product does and how it looks before I start messing with. The first thing I need to say is that I like the product, but one must be careful of which morphed characters the scars get used on. The one almost full face scar that I chose does not match up well with a character with such extreme morphing on the cheek and jaw area as the Atticus face shape because even though the top part of the scar sits well on the cheek, a part of the lower part of the scar is offset from the skin and air is visible between the character and the scar. This is one advantage that LIE has over the use of geoshells. Since everything sits right on the skin itself and basically becomes part of the skin, these types of problems don't happen. Overall, though, these things that can be fixed with a little maneuvering. I like all of these products and I can see advantages and disadvantages to each one. As it happens, they compliment each other. Where the use of one might be a slight disadvantage in a certain set of circumstances, the other works well in that same circumstance. I did notice that all of the geoshell products seem to add significant time to my render times (I stopped each render before completion just to get them posted here so that they weren't rendered at top quality) and I only rendered well enough to show the product results.
I absolutely LOVE it when I find out that a vendor has made video showcasing their products. For any interested, @Smay has this video and this video showcasing his/her product, Body Scar Decals and Face Scar Decals, and how to use it on hers/his? Youtube channel. Finally, after all of my fiddling with the Wound Makeup Artist, I find that @SimonWM also has this video on his Youtube channel showing exactly how to fix the problem of having multiple geoshells on a figure while rendering in Iray. If I had found this earlier, my experiments may have gone even quicker although perhaps I might not have learned quite as much so quickly.
I did do a search of the forums to see if there was a commercial thread for any of these products and most of the references that popped up were from our current thread on using the products. So, hopefully, anyone else interested in these products can see our results and how we did with them in the future. I will definitely have to play around with all of these product more. Finally, I did one last render (OutbackWarrior07) in which I really went hog wild on the battle wounds and scars. I probably wouldn't normally put this much scaring on a character and there is room for tweaking as I can still see some air between the layers, but not too bad. I did manage to get that one troublesome scar on his face to 'fit' better. Apparently, one can use the Fit to function and it helps a little. I really like that type of scar and it is a shame that there isn't a shorter version of it where it only affects the above then eye and then just a little on the cheek. That would would have been a nice little bonus in Smay's pack. Again, I didn't run the render out completely, but just enough to get the idea. BTW, I also managed to crash Daz Studio once while playing around with all of these geoshell layers. Luckily, I save and save often and didn't loose anything when the program closed out on me. If this were for an artistic render, I would take more care with wound placement and how close the geoshells were to the body. I probably wouldn't have character with multiple wounds like this in a relative closeup, but at slightly further distance. Close up shots are where I think using LIE is much better option if one isn't modifying their own skins. In which case, I would use SimonWM's LIE Wound Pack, ForbiddenWhisper's Extreme Closeup: Thug Life, or Marieah's LIE Wound Pack (Gen 4 series). These all work and give great results if tweaked and carefully placed on the skin. Eventually, I would love to be able to do all these myself by actually modifying the skin in Gimp. That is the goal anyway. But until then, I rely on heavily on products like these.
I'm sure there is more that I should say, but it is getting late and I've probably hit my limit on the number or amount of things I can upload at any one time or something. I have thought of at least one render experiment that I want to try and I might do that tomorrow and upload it. I think I've said enough for one post.
Thanks for the link to the tut :D
Okay, so I have been experimenting this morning on this character. I've been trying to figure out how to put some scars on him. Unfortunately, when working with LIE, the scars only show up well without the LAMH plugin applied. See pictures GenesisLion01 and GenesisLion02. Once the hair is applied, the scar tends to fade into the background too much and it is almost like not having it there. I tried using the Wound Makeup Artist and that just did not work. I got this funky white shell instead. Yes, I know the product is for Genesis 2, but I thought I would try. I also tried Smay's Face Scars Decals and that actually worked quite well. See GenesisLion03. I would just need to go in and remove some of the hairs from any scars so that they looked more realistic. I think both products use the geometry shell, but Smay's product page doesn't specifically state this. So I'm not sure how Smay's product works. However, it works differently and I like that I have found something that can scar up the Cat World Regenesis characters. I still can't get the scar across the eye to work very well. An option for this same scar in two separate parts would probably give me what I want. I may have to explore the geometry shell and see if I can figure it out. Perhaps, I can create my own scar to get the look I want. In the meantime, I've attached these pictures in case anyone stumbles across this thread looking for this type of information.
Anyway, I'm done for now. Time to move on to other renders.
Yeah, the problem is you need the scars to interact with the hair, which... is tricky, at best.
Yes, best case senario, I place a scar and then have to go into LAMH and do all the hair myself. I'm slowly figuring out how to use the thing, but it might take me awhile. It is on the back burner for now, anyway.