A technical question but I don't need a technical reply
Drogo Nazhur
Posts: 1,265
in The Commons
In Genesis, Genesis 2 and some Genesis 3 ... I was able to increase a body part to beyond 100% and most clothing would fit with no poke throughs. Now with Genesis 8 and 9, if I add a muscular morph or a fat morph and even stay within the 100% limits, I get poke throughs.
Why?
Why were older clothing more form fitting then current clothing? And what can be done about this?
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Cloth should follow the body shape, no matter size, unless it is set to not.
Could you say which morph you have used / show example.
Speaking as someone who does make clothing, making clothing fits is a complicated balance.
If you're making a fit for a character shape or body morph, do you prioritise fixing pokethrough, or do you prioritise fixing distortion (e.g. creases around the breasts, which might even be outright "boob socks" on some morphs)? You can't do both, because fixing distortion means that you have to move the mesh somewhat over the surface of the body, and that means those clothing vertices no longer entirely aligns with the body vertices they're rigged to, and that discrepancy often results in pokethrough.
Personally, I prefer to prioritise fixing distortion; distortion is very hard to eliminate well without taking it out to a modelling tool. On the other hand, clipping is easily addressed with a tool like Fit Control, loosen morphs or a modest smoothing modifier.
As such, you may find that a lot of vendor created fits compromise on clipping in order to improve the overall shape of the garment.
(In the event that you're finding it still clips with a smoothing modifier active, you can address this by setting the smoothing target to an invisible geoshell on the figure, which you can adjust the offset of as required).
There is also the quick option of hiding the bodypart that pokes through, if it is entirely covered by clothing..
Sometimes I do that kind of thing, too. I learned early on how Daz operates, appropriately enough, how a movie/TV production does. You can use tricks to fix problems that, while they don't technically address it, are a good workaround so the issue(s). There's an old saying: "if it's stupid and it works, it still works."
(@background, your solution isn't stupid, just making an overall point).
Hehe, I've done worse on occasion, where I needed a quick fix for pokethrough that was only be visible from one angle, I copied the clothing colour onto the relevant part of the body, with it in shadow it was a completely invisible bodge 'fix'. It sounds terrible. but having watched some art restoration videos, it pales into insignificance compared to some of the bodged work they have to clean up.
I definitely wouldn't suggest it as a solution for commercial product, or even something intended for other people to share, but for my own use, in my own art 'anything goes'.
It's still case by case... but most of the time the root causes are:
1) the clothing is too close to figure's body (i.e. when making them, the vendor left too small offset distance in between the clothing and figure's body ...);
2) with no Smoothing Modifier or smoothing is not enough ...
You can check your cases to see if the poke-thru result from the above causes ~~
As for fixing the poke-thru, others have already given good solutions, though content creators and users usually have different ways ~~
Example: In ss1, small offset distance with body morphs brings you poke-thru. In ss2, I roughly added more offset distance and updated the garment's base geometry, there's no poke-thru even with no Smoothing modifier added.
Sometimes having "just" an HD morph active is enough to cause pokethru.
Veins morphs, bodybuilding morphs, etc. Stuff like that.
this is very true
Heh... after 35 years in theater... highly endorse. The only part that matters is the part the audience can see. What it took to get there is irrelevant.
That was an interesting read -- I learned something, thank you!
I don't mind pokethrough, personally. I mean, it's not my favorite, but like you said, there are reasonably low-effort (and low-skill) ways around that.
If I can ask a semi-technical question... once in a while when I've had some poke-through that was just being stubborn, I used goemetry editor to delete the offending bits... and it ALSO deleted some other bits in a completely different part of the garment. For example - something was interfering with the belt on the right side, so I deleted that pokethrough. And now there's a hole in the middle of the back and another issue near the shoulder. Or a bit of blanket towards the edge suddenly made several holes in the middle. Is there a reason that it does that and/or a way to prevent it?
Another tool in our arsenal is the weight mapped push modifier, either applied on the clothes on top of everything else, to push them over what's supposed to be under them (in this case, the value of the push modifier is set to a positive value, usually 1), or applied to what's poking through, to push it under the outwear (in this case, the value is negative, usually -1).
When an HD morph is poking through clothes, a positive value and just a tiny bit of painting the weight map around the pokethru area is usually enough.
Most of the time, I'm using them to push socks or stockings inside shoes, under dresses, etc, which has the advantage of keeping the shape of the outmost clothes intact.
With the push modifier inactive (in this case, I put the push modifier value to 0 but forgot to show it on the screen
) and the node weight brush tool active to show where I painted the weight map:
With the push modifier value set to -1 (the smoothing modifier is still active here, so it's a bit of a fight between the push modifier and the smoothing one :D):
As you can see on the first picture, the main advantage of a weight mapped push modifier is our capability to apply the pushing only where it's necessary. And as you can see on the second picture, you can have multiple push modifiers on the same clothes, so you could likely have one (I don't remember needed to do it) with a positive value to fix pokethru related to the body of the figure wearing clothing (if smoothing modifier is not enough) and one with a negative value to push that clothing item under other clothing items where it's necessary.
If you want to see how one which is already applied work, you can see it on any clothes recent or semi-recent by Mada. A general tutorial on the subject of weight map and push modifier:
It's because the clothing is being modeled to the much less stringent dForce standards rather than the very stringent has to fit the much more stringent all "DAZ Originals Pro Bundle characters" standards. e.g. I still buy the Genesis 9 clothing even though I have older versions of the same clothing genres that were modelied and tested to much more stringent standards.
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