Video Card updgrade-kinda stuck
straker1999
Posts: 30
It's time for an upgrade, been putting it off forever. Running an AMD mobo and of course an ATI GC. Been using ATI cards forever and a day but it has become necessary to upgrade as Nvidia has pretty much taken over the 3D/Game scene.
Since I always dabbled with Daz over the years I haven't taken it seriously not professionally, untill recently and the my setup as it is doesn't cut it. Difficult to get realistic renders, painfully slow renders (CPU only) and still using an older version of the software as well. Too lazy to do the upgrade but that isn't the point.
My setup is as follows:
Windows 7 Pro (yes I know)
AMD CPU/ASUS Mobo (Ryzen 5 1400 Quad) PCIe3.0 slot
ATI Radeon R7 250 Series
Daz Studio v.4.12 (at the moment)
Since I have a limited budget for this I would like some advise from those who are in the know much more than I.
I narrowed my choice down to the following in order:
1. Nvidia GeForce GTX 1060ti 6G
2. Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 8G FE
3. Nvidia GeForce RTX 3050 Ventus 6G or RTX 3060 12G (if I can get it resonable) not sure about drivers on the this series though.
Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.
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Comments
8GB is pretty much the minimum, and you would not be able to move to the current versions of DS as nVidia does not have new enough drivers for Windows 7
So I can't upgrade to v.4.16 thru v.4.23 at all ??
You can install the latest version but it won't use your GPU for Iray rendering, you'll be limited to CPU rendering.
From memory, the last version of DS with a version of Iray that would work for GPU rendering with Windows 7 was 4.21, starting from 4.22 the minimum driver required was higher than the latest available for Windows 7.
I think there were other issues for more recent builds of DS in WIndows 7 - not show stoppers but at least inconveniences.
Can someone positively confirm this?
Well, I thought I had the install package for version 4.21 downloaded for a later instance install for testing but I don't.
I don't really feel like dropping big bucks on an upgrade that puts me back where I started. Let alone all the work to change over from ATI to nVidia with OS for what could amount to nothing.
Unless the above forementioned GC's will get v4.12 to play nice with with render preview speed, improved render time and quality and be able to deal with the newer PBR shaders then that fine too. It would really be nice to use the Toon shaders as well.
I really do not get what grudge Daz has against thier customers by not allowing users to obtain previous versions for a variety of technical issues one might have. This is the first time I have dealt with a software company that forbids previous version access. Totally obsurd.
I checked the Iray highlights threads, the version in 4.21.0.5 requires NVIDIA Driver 471.41 (or newer) on Windows for GPU rendering. First beta versions of what became 4.22 required a 51x driver, and AFAIK those never were released for Win7.
A new GPU will definitely help with render speed in 4.12, but not with using the new shaders in that version:
Regarding older versions, I don't know why Daz chose not to make them available but it's been their policy for the past 20+ years.
You can however try contacting Daz support to ask if they could provide you with a copy of 4.21.0.5, since it's the last one supporting Win7. I can't guarantee it will work but it's worth a try.
Thanks for research. Seeing as though in many a thread I have read on this, Daz just won't help in the "old version" department so I'm pretty sure I'm out of luck there. Unless someone care
to donate an install package to the cause....
I don't quite understad what the difference is with the PBR Shaders, probably just a newer version issue since almost all the shaders from G8 down that I use show as PBR's in the Surface Editor. It's the G8.1 and up that will preview ok but not render at all. Too bad about the Filatoon Shaders. I thought the Filament Engine came out a while ago (I assume it's related to that)
Thanks so much for helping out. Any other insights are appreciated.
I think I got up to 4.15 with my Win7 rig and a 6Gb GTX1060 (6Gb). I did find two characters & an ultrascenery background was the limit to what I could render in GPU - and even then it sometimes dropped out.
Regards,
Richard
Fundamentally, it's just a naming convention to differentiate the two shaders, Iray PBR and Iray Uber, as Iray only uses PBR(Physically Based Rendering) shaders AFAIK.
On a technical level, the PBR shaders are way more complex, with a lot of additional settings/controls compared to the Iray Uber shader.
As for renders failing while the preview works, that's because they don't use the same settings, by default.
The Draw Settings for the Viewport's Iray preview mode is set to Interactive by default, which means it's ignoring much of the PBR's shader settings.
If you change this to Photoreal mode, you'll probably have the same problem and vice versa, where it will render if set to interactive mode under render settings.
Just to be clear, this isn't an 8.1 and up issue, the Iray PBR shader can be used on anything.
I have character and material presets for 8.1 and even 9 that only use Iray Uber, and 8 and 3 presets that only use Iray PBR.
It's just up to the PA which they go with.
Just my two cents on your initial issue.
You're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place.
If you stick with win 7, you'll be locked to studio version 4.21.05 or below for gpu rendering, regardless of gpu you go with.
If you go with the GTX cards, Game ready driver support is dead in october this year(2025), and support of win 10 is gone next october(2026). accoding to a july 31 2025 article from tom's hardware.
Which means, if your computer doesn't meet win11 requirements,which your's apparently doesn't based on the cpu, you'll be locked to what ever the last supported version of studio is under win10 at that point.
Now, there's nothing that says you have to have the latest and greatest version of studio, plenty of people around here still run older versions.
You'll just need to be careful in your purchases going forward to avoid anythying that's not compatible.
WIth all that in mind, i'd go with the 3060(12GB), and start looking at a used system that's win 11 compatible on ebay.
Unforunately, it's gonna hurt the wallet.
It's PBRSkin, it isn't just "PBR" it is specifically set up for rendering skin, while Iray Uber Base is more generic.
The renders don;t fail, per se, they just render as white,
I don't mind that much if I have a 4.21, but I don't, and it looks like I can't get / find a copy of it either. I already have read the Daz won't help at all regarding "old versions". The GTX card and drivers are still available so no problem there. Since I do not use Studio professionally I can't justify building a cutting edge graphics optimized rig for on piece of software. Not to mention the work of transfering everthing over to a new machine. That would be just plain nuts.
Thanks again for efforts on the info. But unless I can come up with v4.21 or close to it my days with this software seem to be numbered cause it looks like I'm out of luck I guess.
I understand you're on a limited income. I will also in 2 years... So I'm slowly building what's going to be my probably last pricey computer.
Instead of trying to upgrade an obsolete PC, I think it's probably wiser to jump to something more "modern".
Maybe could you try to find a relatively new second hand computer at a very big discount : for some gamers, 2 years is like a lifetime !
As for Windows, one can find a licence for 10x64 pro for about 10 euros, if you search a bit. the 11 iteration is too picky about harware, so skip it.
DazStudio Iray rendering performances are tightly related to the VRAM, 8 is really minimal, 16 is passable. And it must be an Nvidia GC.
Perhaps an other way for solving this dilemma is to try to find another more "frugal" program ? Poser 13 for example, or Blender with an addon for human figures. Blender is going to shake up your neurons for the best !
I had the opportunity to buy an Nvidia 4060 ti with 16 Gb of VRAM for 400 euros and it was a real bargain ! I'm not ready to spend 2k + for an nvidia RTX 5090 plus the 1200 W stable power supply requested. So I'll wait, a bit.
Hope for the best from your side of the Pond.
I'm not really a gamer anymore, so no worries there. I lot of my software is older stuff, I don't fix what's not broken. I usually move from one OS to next kicking and screaming.
In so far as Poser is concerned, I've looked into it a bit but it seems it's suffering the same GC issues ...sort of. Don't really feel like starting from scratch with another steep learning curve.
Not being snobby at all, but, I don't ever buy used PC equipment. I always build my own system, new, to my needs. Just not going to chase the next best thing over one piece of software that I don't use in a professional capacity.
I agree with the statement regarding Blender, I've dabbled, and it hurts my brain. I've been using Rhino for years. It's all what you're used too I suppose.
Thanks, Cheers from the other side.
I'm confused, you say you don't buy used parts, but you say you're looking at a 1060, a 1080, a 3050 or a 3060??? The 50-series is the current gen. 3050 and 3060 are two generations old, and you won't be able to find those new anywhere. You'd have a hard time even finding a 40-series card today in the new market.
straker1999, if you have a spare drive laying around and you're feeling adventurous, you could always try Linux. Ubuntu (or any *buntu) is pretty easy to install, works fine with Zen 1, and it's pretty easy to install Nvidia drivers nowadays.
You can configure WINE to emulate whatever version of Windows you want, and you won't have to deal with Microsoft's tomfoolery. It's a bit of work, but I'd say it's worth it.
Out of the cards you listed, I'd go for the 3060 12Gb, hands down. VRAM is the most important in Iray. 3060s are available new for around $300 on pcpartpicker, depending on where you live.
You do realize that Windows 11 is nagware, right? You can install it, never update it, and all you'll lose are some personlization options.