Breast morphs and Ripcage G3F
cosmo71
Posts: 3,609
Can someone explain me why the ripcage gets pressed underneath the breasts when using the breast natural morph or reducing breast implant value??? And why the breast - ripcage connectivity does not work "real" if using breast shape morphs?
Post edited by cosmo71 on
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cause its just a 3D mesh and a human did the morph. the ripcage is just polys like any other part of the figure. You could ask why elbows, shoulders, ankles and knees aren't perfect either. They are just parts of the mesh. They aren't special and certainly not driven by physics.
That's why I like to have different sets of morphs from different parties. Some behave differently and sometimes one or another is better for the job at hand.
You can also ask why many breasts movement morphs enlarge the cup size..as an artist you have to spot this stuff and adjust accordingly. It's not real, so doesn't use the same rules as life. And you have to determine how much of this the unknowing observer will notice.
I know when I created my first breast morphs in ZBrush I made a mess of things but as time went on I learned to mask off the rib cage, blur the masked area just one time and then do the breast morphs so the rib cage poly's stayed where they were supposed to including my natural morphs where the breast polys lay directly down on the rib cage. Everyone approaches this differently it seems.
well shoulders and so I think work quite well (compared to V4) The only thing I would like to haveare three or four morphs I13 has in her overhaul for V4 but I do not know if you know that product so it would make no sence to name them here if you don`t know them
It may be worth opening a ticket to report this - I can't guarantee the response, but if it looks wrong it's at least worth querying. That said, if you mean the G3F Body Morph set I'm not seeing the issue - there's a very slight movement in the area below the breasts, but it is tiny.
Similar morphs may show up for G3F. Keep in mind that she is a very new figure, and it takes a lot of time to create the complex morph packages. V4 was out for quite a while (years ??) before many of the adjustment morph packages you are refering to began showing up.Of course there is always the option of creating your own if you don't want to wait (or if they aren't made by anyone).
The problem is I can`t post an image because nude images are not allowed, great. If you use the breast small morph the ripcage underneath the breast gets pressed inwards, the same if you reduce the value for breast implant or you use breast natural morph. If you úse one of the breast shape morphs (1-8) the breast not just get its shape, (bigger, hanging and so on) the breast also moves forward so you have a gap between the "hanging" breast (underbreast) and the ripcage and it is not a small gap it is a big one you can see if you look from the site.
Breast is breast and ripcage is ripcage in my opinion so if I want to reduce the breast size for example it should have no influence on the ripcage below but it has.
to support ticket, I guess I will get the same answers as I get in the forums, everything is fine.
Yep, know what you mean. Just have to make morphs to fix it. This isn't anew thing however. G2 and G1 had the same situation with morphs(i wanna say V4 too, but it's been so long and back then I didn't care at all).
You can post an image of a neutral gray figure, especially cropped to show just the lower part/under breast area.
You can post a smooth shaded or wireframe screenshot (with no nipples dialed in), just not a textured image.
It does sound as if it's an interaction of morphs though - I was looking at just the base G3F and breasts natural. Not seeing a major issue with breasts Small, though there isn't (as you would expect) much of a fold. There do seem to be some intersection issues using the Breast Shape morphs, is that what you mean by the ribcage getting pressed underneath? I'm not sure I would expect anything very different when morphs are doing contradictory things.
There's also a chance that bump/displacement mapping can be afftecting things, too. Hence the suggestion to use a neutral gray/default shaded/no maps preset.
Also, the closer to 100% the morph is applied, the more chance of distortion.
Remember that when blending morphs, it often works best if you don't mix everything at high or full percentages.
I do not mixing a everthing at high or full percent, far away from full percent with all my shapes no morphs is more than 25% of what is possible.
I just did a couple of tests with a smaller breast morph I made for G3F...and yes, the bump/displacement DOES add to distortion. It probably has to do with the UV stretching/shrinking pulling oddly on the map.
My rule of thumb is that all morphs that affect a body part, combined, should add up to no more than 100%.
i say break off the limits and go crazy!
not the worst rule though. particularly if u have bad results
I wish people removed the breast crease in the normal, bump or displacement maps. The minute you reduce the breast size to next to zero, you get this (see attachment). I already took all my maps into PS and applied the plaster brush to them to get rid of it. Having the crease baked in the normal\displace or bump maps limits its usage regarding what type of breasts you want to use with a particular skin, unless you fix it yourself. Same goes for the crease under the glutes. When you extend the leg you get this dent in the lower thigh. Granted not all sets have this, but still, it should be avoided.
That's pretty much my rule too, unless I've made a morph that is designed with other morphs in mind.
That makes me want to climb the walls.
And when you reduce the size it moves that all over the place and you end up with what looks like breast reduction surgery done by Victor Frankenstein.
i sent in a ticket for this gap especially in the Bethany texture
i called it crack
they couldnt reproduce it
the breast part of g3f is really bad crafted for morphs
yes it is and the answer you got is exactly what I have expected and here is an image that shows what I mean. And btw, the crotch region is not better. In this cases V4.2 was a lot better and that is really poor for a new technology. I really thinking of kicking all G3F stuff I have and go back to V4. With all her shortcomings she is still better than this.
BTW, the face of G3F and all the morphs are also bad crafted. It is nearly impossible to get good results when trying to create a good looking character. Slowly but surely I begin to think that G3F is a real worse figure created by a trainee.
I haven't noticed the bust one, but yeah the glute one I commonly have to get rid of from the diffuse map at least. Often times the bump/normal don't end up being noticable but the diffuse is pretty obvious. The more subtle baked in lighting/shadows usually aren't a huge issue, though sometimes in the face I have to soften it there too. The baked in stuff probably still helps some peoples renders (i'm guessing)
I fuss about stuff here all the time by the way, I just don't have to agree with every complaint that comes up. And even if I agree somewhat, I don't have to acknowledge it as a critical issue the user can't overcome and move about their day.
Maybe I got a part of the problem with the ripace region underneath the breasts and the gap/crack. It is the normal map. Without the normal map the region is much smoother
you have it in the normal map (bust problem) without the normal map this region underneath the breasts looks way better.
Never mind, answered while I was posting.
OK that explains it to a degree. I don't use the normal maps most of the time. It's partly because of how I render and I still like the details in the bump. The normals tend to give good help with muscle groups, but I haven't used them a ton.
hmm I am also not a fan of normal maps (expect for males because of the vains and muscles) but unfortuntatelly G3F has no rips (it has a ripcage but no rips
other than V4 for example) and I guess the normal map shall delete some missing of the geometry, you know?
I agree there is a problem with the breats/ripcage morph. And I agree it seems to be hard to create interesting faces of G3F (by the way i must say most of the G3F clothes published so far are less sophisticated than the G2F were...) But perhaps it's not impossible - waiting for the new version of the GenX conversion tool I transfered my favourite girl from G2 to G3. Don't tell me she isn't beautyful :)
The render shows skill with the tools, congratz. But her thighs are way too thin (she would be unhealthy). And her head is probably a tad big.
You definately have a handle on rendering.