Conversions From Victoria 4/Genesis 2 to Genesis 9
Expozures
Posts: 255
in The Commons
So, here's something I was wondering. Going through various markets, I sometimes come across really old characters that are like Victoria 4.2. They've got a great shape, but you can tell the skin is dated. Does anyone know of any scripts or any way to go from Victoria 4 to Genesis 9, even if it needs multiple steps?
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If only the skin is the problem, you can use G8 skin on genesis, g2 and g3. To convert V4/M4 use the genx plugins:
https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-generation-x2
https://www.daz3d.com/genx2-addon-for-genesis-2 if you want to convert to G9 with:
a) https://www.daz3d.com/character-converter-from-genesis-2-female-to-genesis-8-female-
And then https://www.daz3d.com/rssy-character-converter-genesis-8-and-81-female-to-genesis-9
Instead, if it is only the skin, you can also use g9 skin on your g8 converted meshes with:
https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-9-uvs-for-genesis-8-and-81-female so you don't have to convert to G9.
Yes, but that downgrades the textures from 8k to 4k doesn't it?
As i didn't try it yet, it is good you mentioned it. So if that is the case, a conversion to g9 might be the better or only solution, if you need 8k. Thanks!
Having said that, for most people, an excellent g8 texture is very hard to tell the difference between it and decent g9 texture and is going to be better than a poor g9. The excellent g9 in extreme closeups will still win though in my experience.
Also, to put in something regarding your original question... for the most part the geometry has evolved over the generations so that it's just better in most cases. It bends more naturally, etc... converting will give that to the older shape, but the conversion is not one to one... I have an example I posted earlier this morning where I am doing a conversion from G8 to G9 and it shows how much detail is lost in the conversion. Note, the character I'm doing it with is very detailed... There are also add-ons to recover some of that lost detail, but that is an added expense and time so one has to take that into account. Also, the newest generation usually has less of those types of add-ons, filling out over time untill the next generation is about to come out to start the cycle all over again. Thus, there is never really a replacement for the previous generation as we move forward. Basically, it is usually not worth converting unless the shape is particularly interesting and stands out in some way that is not available in the newer generation, like one's own custom character, or a character that fits a niche that either wasn't reimlemented in the newer generation or where one just likes the older vesion better. This latter is more often the case with fantasy characters. The more unique the character however, the more one is pretty much reinventing the character from scratch with the old character just as a base. That is to say, it takes time and has a fairly decent learning curve.
I debated cross posting this since it's in another thread, but decided to since it's particularly relevant to your question: https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/user/6105347311796224#gallery=album934631&page=1&sort=trending&image=1372286
So, kinda the way I'm feeling the vibe would be just to grab the Gen 2/Victoria 4 model whatever, then just fiddle around with the base G8 or G9 model until you wind up getting as close of an approximation to the older model as possible.
I am starting to like G9 more and more lately, there's lots of great supporting products out for it now. I've got a few hair assets that I love, but only work on G9 (mainly strandbased hair), there's still some older styles that I find when I just idly browse through markets that I'm like, "Hey, I like that model...too bad they're not around anymore"
I'm currently obsessed with doing v4/m4 to G9 conversions. I use the method mentioned above - my path is GenX to G3; G3 to G9. I'm not interested in texture conversions, only the shapes.
I flipping love the results. I either:
Or a combination of the two for characters that have useful shapes in both.
Genesis 3 to 9 step requires left shoulder at -45 bend and right shoulder at 45 bend (thanks @barbult). Then memorise figure pose before the port.
I'll save Genesis 9 morphs, load a new G9 and then apply saved morphs. That allows me to use shape rigger, but tbh adjust rigging to shape works decently too.
You'll need the morphs++ products for Victoria 4.2 and Michael 4. Was there a Michael 4.2? I can't find him if so, but the 4 morphs work fine. Some of the steps are to inject the needed morphs into GenX require digging about your runtime to find what you need, so if you give conversions a go and get stuck, holler and we can walk through where to find things.
Probably way more trouble than it's worth...lol...but, I'm a tenatious type of guy (ask my ex-wife), and when I get something in my head, I gotta see it through. I also enjoy pushing capabilities of stuff to see what I can do and how I can break it.
It's always good experience if you have the time and patience to do something like this even if you later decide it's not something you want to do on a regular basis. What you learn gives you good insight and you may find times where it really comes in handy. :)
Thank you, a lot of good insights and information. I'll have to look at the geometry of v4/m4 generation closer after seeing your comment. Genesis was the first that came up with a unified mesh for both and it very likely set a trend even when they were later separated again. Having said that, there is so much that can be done with morph packs that it seems the easier and more stable way of doing it often might be to simply dial in what you want, perhaps using the v4/m4 generation as inspiration.
This is a very interesting topic!
Just a few days ago I tried to convert a G2 to a G9. Overall, it went well, but I got some distortion around the eye sockets (the lower edge). I then tried to convert the G2 to a G3 as an intermediate step, but still got the same distortion in the eye sockets.
Is there a way to correct for this or avoid it?
I've gotten very good results converting G3 and G8 to G9.
That is a good question. I just watched a video about converting and the person doing it also ran into this. So did I. If you look at my gallery post, I show that in the project I'm currently working on. Mine was conversion from g8 to g9, but it was a very heavily customized character with a lot of morphs added to it (fully body, face, eyes, etc...) The original G8 does not have that problem. I will be posting more in the thread I started on my project as I go along if you are interested in following that.
Technically correct, but there's a bit of nuance behind that if you want/need to take advantage of it.
Generation 3 (V3 and M3) were actually morphs of the same 'Unimesh' figure but sold a separate male & female base figures. As a result, if you go through the process of of creating your own weight mapped figure (TriAx or Weight Mapped) you can base it on (say) V3 and import an M3 .obj file as a full body morph, as shown in the slightly disturbing images below where the M3 morph goes from 0% left to 100% right while changing nothing else:
A V3 morph on the left, M3 morph created simply by importing an M3 mesh as a FBM on the right and applied at 100%. In fact you can add in every Gen3 base character - A3, H3, F3, SheFreak 3, GND2, GV3 and Iv etc. as they are all based on the same unimesh origin mesh. The same can be done with Generation 4, V4/M4/A4/H4/F4
In effect with Genesis and G9, DAZ released the sex-undifferentiated base model and the sex differentaited base figures are morphs. While for Generation 3 & 4, Genesis 2, 3 & 8, DAZ didn't release the base unimesh as a figure, instead only released the sex differentiated morphs as base figures.
Where you can take advantage of this is in creating TriAx/weight mapped versions of V3 & V4, and then you can have effort-free autofit clones for male clothing and you can apply male characters as fbm's too. OK, a limited & niche area, but it does mean that you can create autofit clones for your modernised V3/V4 by morphing M3/M4 to match the G3/G8/G9 shapes for the male clothing as well as doing the same with V3/V4 on the female side. (full details in the rather long tutorial pdf here [if you have loads of time and a burning desire to use V3/V4 in their original state but modernised to take advantage of autofit and autofollow for many generations of clothing] https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/655676/tutorial-making-triax-figures-from-old-parametric-characters/p1)
Regards,
Richard
I would definitely like to follow along with the progress of your project! Is it in a seperate thread?
I have been using Jay Versluis' tutorial on converting the various Genesis figures to Genesis 9. He does mention that converting heavily customized figures can run into some issues, often around the eyes. In fact he uses a heavily stylized character to demonstrate what can be expected. He has a seperate tutorial about making corrections to the eyes using Blender. I'm not opposed to learning Blender; it's just that I'm still trying to get a handle on DAZ.
For my G2 to G9 conversion project, I wonder if the issue with the eyes is a result of the somewhat stylized head or if even a standard G2 head would result in distortion around the eyes. That might be my next test.