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That Advertising is confusing..

larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
edited July 2015 in The Commons

I'm sure it's not intentional but this graphic got me to click thinking there was a chocolate release for G3F. Course not.

At first I was like...Wooot! 

Oh wait, where is she? Scrolls  to the bottom of the page. Hmm doesn't seem like G3, oh she's not.

Sad panda is sad.

But I think she looks great! Gratz to P3D.

Edited by a mod to change title

Post edited by Richard Haseltine on

Comments

  • SimonJMSimonJM Posts: 6,074

    My heart gave a litle flutter too ... oh well sad

  • tl155180tl155180 Posts: 994

    Yep, I totally thought she was a G3 character too. Thats what they call in the business "false advertising".

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604

    How so.   It says New Items and Poses for Genesis 3.  It doesn't say Poses and new Items for Genesis 3.

    There is also a new Bryce set, a New camera, some new lights, etc etc. So a very mixed bunch, as shown in the newsletter

  • SimonJMSimonJM Posts: 6,074

    The text and the offer/deal are fine.  Just the fact that the eye-catching part of the advert is the image.  Which happens to be NOT for G3 ;)

  • SnowPheonixSnowPheonix Posts: 896
    larsmidnatt said:

    I'm sure it's not intentional but this graphic got me to click thinking there was a chocolate release for G3F. Course not.

    At first I was like...Wooot! 

    Oh wait, where is she? Scrolls  to the bottom of the page. Hmm doesn't seem like G3, oh she's not.

    Sad panda is sad.

    But I think she looks great! Gratz to P3D.

    They almost got me with that too... so then I had a closer look at the character and I thought.. another bland cartoonish looking character.. too many people have been staring at cartoons instead of pictures of real people for far too long.. they have forgotten what real people look like but with IRAY, the characters are going to have to have real looking skins.  What use to work back in the day ain't going to fly for much longer.. See Eloyse by Tempesta3d... thats what a character should look like.. Characters should look like actual people.. not cartoons with no details on the skin.

  • SpitSpit Posts: 2,342
    SnowPheonix said:
    larsmidnatt said:

    I'm sure it's not intentional but this graphic got me to click thinking there was a chocolate release for G3F. Course not.

    At first I was like...Wooot! 

    Oh wait, where is she? Scrolls  to the bottom of the page. Hmm doesn't seem like G3, oh she's not.

    Sad panda is sad.

    But I think she looks great! Gratz to P3D.

    They almost got me with that too... so then I had a closer look at the character and I thought.. another bland cartoonish looking character.. too many people have been staring at cartoons instead of pictures of real people for far too long.. they have forgotten what real people look like but with IRAY, the characters are going to have to have real looking skins.  What use to work back in the day ain't going to fly for much longer.. See Eloyse by Tempesta3d... thats what a character should look like.. Characters should look like actual people.. not cartoons with no details on the skin.

    Um, you do know there are people around who think it's great that this type of realism is atainable now but aren't that personally interested in it. It doesn't make them lesser artists, they just have different interests and styles.

    Back to the OP, it got me too at first. But ::shrug:: it didn't take long to figure it out.

  • SnowSultanSnowSultan Posts: 3,798

    Um, you do know there are people around who think it's great that this type of realism is atainable now but aren't that personally interested in it.

     

    Thank you. I've been experimenting with Iray since March and it just doesn't do it for me. It renders environments and objects amazingly well, but I still find virtually every non-postworked Iray render of a human to be sterile and cold. It's the nature of photo-realistic renderers, not any fault of the user or deficiency of the renderer.

  • wizwiz Posts: 1,100
    Chohole said:

    How so.   It says New Items and Poses for Genesis 3.  It doesn't say Poses and new Items for Genesis 3.

    There is also a new Bryce set, a New camera, some new lights, etc etc. So a very mixed bunch, as shown in the newsletter

    In English, a conjunction binds before a preposition. Like "hotdogs and buns for the picnic". No one assumes that the buns are for the picnic and the hotdogs aren't, or that the meaning of the sentence would change if someone had said "buns and hotdogs for the picnic" instead.

    There is no way to defend the wording of that ad without it coming off like this:

    • It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement.
  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited July 2015
    wiz said:
    Chohole said:

    How so.   It says New Items and Poses for Genesis 3.  It doesn't say Poses and new Items for Genesis 3.

    There is also a new Bryce set, a New camera, some new lights, etc etc. So a very mixed bunch, as shown in the newsletter

    In English, a conjunction binds before a preposition. Like "hotdogs and buns for the picnic". No one assumes that the buns are for the picnic and the hotdogs aren't, or that the meaning of the sentence would change if someone had said "buns and hotdogs for the picnic" instead.

    There is no way to defend the wording of that ad without it coming off like this:

    • It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement.

    Thank you! I have been struggling with how to explain it. 

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • j cadej cade Posts: 2,310

    I agree its a bit misleading, but never attribute to malice what can be attributed to... well lack of space in this instance I mean "New poses for genesis 3 and new items for Genesis 2. Oh yeah, and that one Bryce thing" doesn't really fit on the banner.

    Maybe a period? "New Items. Poses for Genesis 3"? Although that implies to me that the only new items are poses. "New items Including Poses for Genesis 3" probably the most accurate, but a bit wordy and just feels kind of underwhelming. Honestly the english language can just be terrible for clearly stating meaning, but that's what makes it so fun I guess.

    I'll admit I was sad the lady wasn't for gen3 also.

  • youri_zyouri_z Posts: 161
    edited July 2015
    wiz said:
    Chohole said:

    How so.   It says New Items and Poses for Genesis 3.  It doesn't say Poses and new Items for Genesis 3.

    There is also a new Bryce set, a New camera, some new lights, etc etc. So a very mixed bunch, as shown in the newsletter

    In English, a conjunction binds before a preposition. Like "hotdogs and buns for the picnic". No one assumes that the buns are for the picnic and the hotdogs aren't, or that the meaning of the sentence would change if someone had said "buns and hotdogs for the picnic" instead.

    There is no way to defend the wording of that ad without it coming off like this:

    • It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement.

    Wiz,

    It's actually ambiguous. Which is ultimately the problem. Sales ads shouldn't be ambiguous. And you are correct about the order: it doesn't make a difference. The wording is still ambiguous.

    I'm a linguist so I feel compelled to give an abridged linguistic explanation. Using your example, the phrase "for the picnic" can modify either "buns" alone or it can modify "hotdogs and buns" together. So you can either interpret the full phrase as [[hotdogs and buns] for the picnic] or else [hotdogs and [buns for the picnic]]. This is identical to what happens with adjectives, for example, "green eggs and ham". In speech, we disambiguate between the two with a pause (and a change in intonation). In text, there's no way to disambiguate except with additional context. There is sometimes a strong preference for one over the other. In your example, you chose two words that describe things commonly found at picnics. So the bias is to modify "hotdogs and buns" with "for the picnic". However, there are plenty of examples that prefer the other case. For example in the sentence "John hates bugs and people with blue eyes", the preference is to interpret this as "people with blue eyes" because the alternative is absurd/comical.

    smiley

    Post edited by youri_z on
  • j cadej cade Posts: 2,310
    edited July 2015

    I feel like this is the appropriate moment to interject this:

     

    although these are more appropriate to the situation https://writing.wisc.edu/Handbook/CommonErrors_BestMod.html

    Post edited by j cade on
  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715

    It is misleading; a figure, taking up a significant portion of the 'advert'; Genesis 3 stated specifically, no other editions even suggested.

    False advertising: no... but misleading, and one has to consider if it was deliberate or not.

    The word 'and' the conjunction, is used to join sentences together, or words (and of course numbers); you know, like one and one equalling two. It makes what could be seperate into something connected, joined, together - linked.

    Personally I was excited about another figure; so what, with different (more appropriate) wording might have induced me to buy, left me immediately disappointed.

  • wizwiz Posts: 1,100
    larsmidnatt said:
    wiz said:
    Chohole said:

    How so.   It says New Items and Poses for Genesis 3.  It doesn't say Poses and new Items for Genesis 3.

    In English, a conjunction binds before a preposition. Like "hotdogs and buns for the picnic". No one assumes that the buns are for the picnic and the hotdogs aren't, or that the meaning of the sentence would change if someone had said "buns and hotdogs for the picnic" instead.

    There is no way to defend the wording of that ad without it coming off like this:

    • It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement.

    Thank you! I have been struggling with how to explain it. 

    You're welcome. Glad to be of service.

  • cdemeritcdemerit Posts: 505
    youri_z said:
    wiz said:
    Chohole said:

    How so.   It says New Items and Poses for Genesis 3.  It doesn't say Poses and new Items for Genesis 3.

    There is also a new Bryce set, a New camera, some new lights, etc etc. So a very mixed bunch, as shown in the newsletter

    In English, a conjunction binds before a preposition. Like "hotdogs and buns for the picnic". No one assumes that the buns are for the picnic and the hotdogs aren't, or that the meaning of the sentence would change if someone had said "buns and hotdogs for the picnic" instead.

    There is no way to defend the wording of that ad without it coming off like this:

    • It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement.

    Wiz,

    It's actually ambiguous. Which is ultimately the problem. Sales ads shouldn't be ambiguous. And you are correct about the order: it doesn't make a difference. The wording is still ambiguous.

    I'm a linguist so I feel compelled to give an abridged linguistic explanation. Using your example, the phrase "for the picnic" can modify either "buns" alone or it can modify "hotdogs and buns" together. So you can either interpret the full phrase as [[hotdogs and buns] for the picnic] or else [hotdogs and [buns for the picnic]]. This is identical to what happens with adjectives, for example, "green eggs and ham". In speech, we disambiguate between the two with a pause (and a change in intonation). In text, there's no way to disambiguate except with additional context. There is sometimes a strong preference for one over the other. In your example, you chose two words that describe things commonly found at picnics. So the bias is to modify "hotdogs and buns" with "for the picnic". However, there are plenty of examples that prefer the other case. For example in the sentence "John hates bugs and people with blue eyes", the preference is to interpret this as "people with blue eyes" because the alternative is absurd/comical.

    smiley

    I have begun to wonder if these ambiguities are deliberate. They seem to be very consistent and appearing in such a manor that one has to wonder if they are doing it to make people look closer at what is actually the sale.  

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited July 2015

    Well, in each country we have different "rules to go by" ... so won't comment on that part.

    BUT I did understand and took advantage of the rest of the page ads wherein one can purchase a PRO pack for a very good price IF one purchases one of those releases. [not a problem, the character is available for G2, and there are a lot of poses for G3 ... and things with no suns for Bryce ;-) ... ]

    Post edited by patience55 on
  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 12,166
    edited July 2015
    cdemerit said:
    youri_z said:
    wiz said:
    Chohole said:

    How so.   It says New Items and Poses for Genesis 3.  It doesn't say Poses and new Items for Genesis 3.

    There is also a new Bryce set, a New camera, some new lights, etc etc. So a very mixed bunch, as shown in the newsletter

    In English, a conjunction binds before a preposition. Like "hotdogs and buns for the picnic". No one assumes that the buns are for the picnic and the hotdogs aren't, or that the meaning of the sentence would change if someone had said "buns and hotdogs for the picnic" instead.

    There is no way to defend the wording of that ad without it coming off like this:

    • It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement.

    Wiz,

    It's actually ambiguous. Which is ultimately the problem. Sales ads shouldn't be ambiguous. And you are correct about the order: it doesn't make a difference. The wording is still ambiguous.

    I'm a linguist so I feel compelled to give an abridged linguistic explanation. Using your example, the phrase "for the picnic" can modify either "buns" alone or it can modify "hotdogs and buns" together. So you can either interpret the full phrase as [[hotdogs and buns] for the picnic] or else [hotdogs and [buns for the picnic]]. This is identical to what happens with adjectives, for example, "green eggs and ham". In speech, we disambiguate between the two with a pause (and a change in intonation). In text, there's no way to disambiguate except with additional context. There is sometimes a strong preference for one over the other. In your example, you chose two words that describe things commonly found at picnics. So the bias is to modify "hotdogs and buns" with "for the picnic". However, there are plenty of examples that prefer the other case. For example in the sentence "John hates bugs and people with blue eyes", the preference is to interpret this as "people with blue eyes" because the alternative is absurd/comical.

    smiley

    I have begun to wonder if these ambiguities are deliberate. They seem to be very consistent and appearing in such a manor that one has to wonder if they are doing it to make people look closer at what is actually the sale.  

    I agree, this example is definitely an ambiguity.  While I certainly don't reject the possibility that the ambiguities are deliberate.  I'm more inclined to believe they are more easily explained by naivete, incompetence or carelessness.

     

    Post edited by LeatherGryphon on
  • JOdelJOdel Posts: 6,322

    I think it all comed down to;

    "Made you look!"

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 26,420

    I personally never gave her a second look, once I saw that she was not for G3F. The UV change between G2F and G3F means I couldn't even use the skin texture on G3F. My fear is that if sales are low, it will be used as "proof" that customers don't buy "ethnic" characters. I REALLY hope that doesn't happen. I think customer interest would have been MUCH higher had this been for G3F or even if it had been released before G3F.

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 12,846
    SnowPheonix said:

    They almost got me with that too... so then I had a closer look at the character and I thought.. another bland cartoonish looking character.. too many people have been staring at cartoons instead of pictures of real people for far too long.. they have forgotten what real people look like but with IRAY, the characters are going to have to have real looking skins.  What use to work back in the day ain't going to fly for much longer.. See Eloyse by Tempesta3d... thats what a character should look like.. Characters should look like actual people.. not cartoons with no details on the skin.

     

    Eloyse by Tempesta3d doesn't look any better IMO than the many other textures out there. The lighting in the promos and the closeups show the details, nothing more. In my experience with tempest3d products, they have to many baked in shadows and highlights that take away from realistic rendering with unbiased renderers.

     While "I" agree that both characters textures could use more detail "I" am leaning more towards the P3D one based on "my" past experiences with Tempest3D products and the P3D promos.

    As for the OP, yeah, I agree with the advertising aspect as I am waiting for more skins for GF3 myself and was dissapointed this wasn't one of them.

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    barbult said:

    I personally never gave her a second look, once I saw that she was not for G3F. The UV change between G2F and G3F means I couldn't even use the skin texture on G3F. My fear is that if sales are low, it will be used as "proof" that customers don't buy "ethnic" characters. I REALLY hope that doesn't happen. I think customer interest would have been MUCH higher had this been for G3F or even if it had been released before G3F.

    I echo this 100%. The last example of an "ethnic" character happened to be burried in the mass of G3F items, and I missed her completely.

     

    JOdel said:

    I think it all comed down to;

    "Made you look!"

    Yeah, read the fine print and all that. 

     

    LeatherGryphon said:
    cdemerit said:
    youri_z said:
    wiz said:
    Chohole said:

    How so.   It says New Items and Poses for Genesis 3.  It doesn't say Poses and new Items for Genesis 3.

    There is also a new Bryce set, a New camera, some new lights, etc etc. So a very mixed bunch, as shown in the newsletter

    In English, a conjunction binds before a preposition. Like "hotdogs and buns for the picnic". No one assumes that the buns are for the picnic and the hotdogs aren't, or that the meaning of the sentence would change if someone had said "buns and hotdogs for the picnic" instead.

    There is no way to defend the wording of that ad without it coming off like this:

    • It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement.

    Wiz,

    It's actually ambiguous. Which is ultimately the problem. Sales ads shouldn't be ambiguous. And you are correct about the order: it doesn't make a difference. The wording is still ambiguous.

    I'm a linguist so I feel compelled to give an abridged linguistic explanation. Using your example, the phrase "for the picnic" can modify either "buns" alone or it can modify "hotdogs and buns" together. So you can either interpret the full phrase as [[hotdogs and buns] for the picnic] or else [hotdogs and [buns for the picnic]]. This is identical to what happens with adjectives, for example, "green eggs and ham". In speech, we disambiguate between the two with a pause (and a change in intonation). In text, there's no way to disambiguate except with additional context. There is sometimes a strong preference for one over the other. In your example, you chose two words that describe things commonly found at picnics. So the bias is to modify "hotdogs and buns" with "for the picnic". However, there are plenty of examples that prefer the other case. For example in the sentence "John hates bugs and people with blue eyes", the preference is to interpret this as "people with blue eyes" because the alternative is absurd/comical.

    smiley

    I have begun to wonder if these ambiguities are deliberate. They seem to be very consistent and appearing in such a manor that one has to wonder if they are doing it to make people look closer at what is actually the sale.  

    I agree, this example is definitely an ambiguity.  While I certainly don't reject the possibility that the ambiguities are deliberate.  I'm more inclined to believe they are more easily explained by naivete, incompetence or carelessness.

     

    I agree its in the least ambiguous.  It's not the best form for marketing...coming from someone who is actively paid to practice it daily...

    FSMCDesigns said:
    SnowPheonix said:

    They almost got me with that too... so then I had a closer look at the character and I thought.. another bland cartoonish looking character.. too many people have been staring at cartoons instead of pictures of real people for far too long.. they have forgotten what real people look like but with IRAY, the characters are going to have to have real looking skins.  What use to work back in the day ain't going to fly for much longer.. See Eloyse by Tempesta3d... thats what a character should look like.. Characters should look like actual people.. not cartoons with no details on the skin.

    As for the OP, yeah, I agree with the advertising aspect as I am waiting for more skins for GF3 myself and was dissapointed this wasn't one of them.

    Would have carted, purchased, tweaked and rendered today! Would have sidelined my other responsbilities :) Curiosity killed da cat as it was. 

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    barbult said:

    I personally never gave her a second look, once I saw that she was not for G3F. The UV change between G2F and G3F means I couldn't even use the skin texture on G3F. My fear is that if sales are low, it will be used as "proof" that customers don't buy "ethnic" characters. I REALLY hope that doesn't happen. I think customer interest would have been MUCH higher had this been for G3F or even if it had been released before G3F.

    I've stopped buying G2F; I would certainly have bought her if she'd been G3F. What I liked was that she didn't require anything specific other than G2F base - I was tempted but I have enough G2F for my needs. I'm concentrating on G3F now.

  • SnowPheonixSnowPheonix Posts: 896
    nicstt said:

    I've stopped buying G2F; I would certainly have bought her if she'd been G3F. What I liked was that she didn't require anything specific other than G2F base - I was tempted but I have enough G2F for my needs. I'm concentrating on G3F now.

    I'm with you...  I love the G3F but I am hopeful that it will become more backwards compatable over time... While I've had mixed results so far, I can save a lot of money by sweeping in some super cheap V6 outfits if they are good ones but lets face it.. the new pose and expression abilities are really exciting because they have mastered the shape so well in V7.

    I'm really loving the combination of Iray and V7... I just hope the rest of the technology catches up... it keeps getting better everyday.

  • murgatroyd314murgatroyd314 Posts: 1,568
    JOdel said:

    I think it all comed down to;

    "Made you look!"

    My response to "made you look!" type advertising is invariably "No Sale." No exceptions.

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