Will ANY Vendors actually support the V7 UVs?
Cybersox
Posts: 9,277
It's kind of hard not to notice that, except for V7 herself, all of characters/textures revealed so for Genesis 3 have used the base G3F UVs and V7 morphs. So, that begets the question as to whether there'll ever again be any support for something besides the base UV sets?
Post edited by Cybersox on
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Of course. :)
Its up to each PA, of course, but I am not sure why you might think this would be a solid no.
The way the UVs are set up for G3F and V7 now means -no seam guides are needed at all- for those using up to date content creation software. People that need them are still painting in Photoshop or Gimp with old school, outdated techniques.
Those that have the software to paint in 3D such as with the newer tools on the market (Substance packages, zBrush, for example) can paint directly on the mesh in 3D format without the previous concern of having overlapping UVs.
This stuff takes time to create, is all. Hang in there. We're working as hard and as fast as we can, I promise.
~Bluebird 3D
I'd wonder because it's odd for a flagship product to launch and not be supported at all, not even in it's own Pro Bundle. We've already seen this occurring on the latter half of Gen 6, and the usual reason given is that the PAs want to appeal to the most possible customers, so they go with the UV sets that has the most support. For Gen 6 that worked out to be G2F/V6/G2M/M6, but with V7 UVs not being used on any of the launch product, I'm wondering if for Gen 7 it's going to boil down to just G3F and G3M.
Because it's smarter to make a texture that uses a UV that everyone owns rather than limit its use to only those who own a specific alternate one. The only real reason to use alternate UVs is if there is distortion due to extreme morphing (like on a Rawn creature morph or such).
I'd wonder because it's odd for a flagship product to launch and not be supported at all, not even in it's own Pro Bundle. We've already seen this occurring on the latter half of Gen 6, and the usual reason given is that the PAs want to appeal to the most possible customers, so they go with the UV sets that has the most support. For Gen 6 that worked out to be G2F/V6/G2M/M6, but with V7 UVs not being used on any of the launch product, I'm wondering if for Gen 7 it's going to boil down to just G3F and G3M.
Ahh that makes sense. I understand better now.
While I can't share all of what I know, I can at least say that so far... V7 sales are something we are all crying over.
... Thats right. Crying.
Great big tears of happiness.
As a PA I make what the market supports. So far the market is speaking very, very clearly. So what the market wants, the market shall get. Including V7 UV support.
Its hard for me to show anything right now, though. I haven't released an environment in months because I've been on other things related to figures but I can say I hear you here. You're speaking about things that are in my current production pipeline. And I'm not the only one. The others have their heads down right now and are working furiously. I should get back to doing that, too.
For now I think collectively we are getting used to the new rigging and facial expressions, etc. PAs are pretty quick learners, though. I suspect you'll see the support you are hoping for really soon.
~Bluebird 3D
Ahh that makes sense. I understand better now.
While I can't share all of what I know, I can at least say that so far... V7 sales are something we are all crying over.
... Thats right. Crying.
Great big tears of happiness.
As a PA I make what the market supports. So far the market is speaking very, very clearly. So what the market wants, the market shall get. Including V7 UV support.
Its hard for me to show anything right now, though. I haven't released an environment in months because I've been on other things related to figures but I can say I hear you here. You're speaking about things that are in my current production pipeline. And I'm not the only one. The others have their heads down right now and are working furiously. I should get back to doing that, too.
For now I think collectively we are getting used to the new rigging and facial expressions, etc. PAs are pretty quick learners, though. I suspect you'll see the support you are hoping for really soon.
~Bluebird 3D
Hi Bluebird 3D,
I hope you don't mind I put some of your text in bold, because that speaks 'volumes' to me.
I rarely do female renders, but after playing with the G3F Starter essentials I was absolutely amazed with the new fluidity of movement of the character. I have now purchased the Pro Bundle of V7 so I got all the 'Parts' :ohh: and the realism of the entire character has just amazed me. V7 is a beautiful realistic model and I can certainly see why she would be flying 'off the DAZ store shelves'. I am sure DAZ will be having a champagne celebration party, and it's well deserved. :lol:
This has to be the most detailed model DAZ has ever produced, and I would certainly recommend people to buy the Pro Bundle of V7 if they can afford it.
If the Pro Bundle of G3M is as detailed, then I think the PA's will have a massive new G3 customer base to support. I will certainly be looking for more G3 highly detailed skin textures and clothing.
Many thanks to DAZ and the PA's who made this all possible, and the ones working behind the scenes with the next wave of G3 products.
Cheers.
:-)
For what it's worth, Substance Painter doesn't recognize anything outside of 0,0 and 0,1. Because of this, only the face can be painted on.
For what it's worth, Substance Painter doesn't recognize anything outside of 0,0 and 0,1. Because of this, only the face can be painted on.
Yeah that was my fault for not using more words. I do this in Substance by creating material IDs right in the program. They come in handy for painting on the whole mesh even when it has multiple UVs but they also come in handy for a lot of other things in that program. Dirt, materials, filters, etc. They are well worth creating regardless. It is a common workflow for that program.
I typically assume most don't want to hear every detail of the behind the scenes stuff so I try to keep my content creation statements pretty general. :) Thanks for following up!
~Bluebird 3D
I'll have to give that a shot. Haven't used those yet. I've been doing it the hard way and creating fill layers for the individual texture sets. I'm assuming this still wouldn't help with manually painting individual details though.
Oh dear yeah the manual way is such a pita! I feel for you, there.
So then the actual process is to collapse the UV shells into the 0,1 space and then use substance designer to choose the material ID channel you wish to paint on. You can paint anywhere you want within that ID. It acts like a mask. If you want to have more area affected, you can select multiple ID channels.
~Bluebird 3D
Substance Painter somehow manages to be the coolest and yet most useless program I own. PBRs created in it don't look the same in Studio (Bohemian and I did tests and couldn't get the same results in both programs), and you need to have a boatload of modeler-generated maps (like Curvature, AO, and Normals) ready to go in order to get any interesting results.
I'll take good old Photoshop. :)
To be fair, Substance isn't really meant for Poser/Daz work. It's aimed at game texturing where baking those maps out would be more common.
I haven't tried yet, but since DS came out with Iray, I'm tempted. Iray's default is metallic/roughness, so for ease of use that would probably be the better route when creating for Daz in Substance. Don't forget, you'd also have to tweak the surface settings in DS, but I'm not sure how well things translate. If DS implemented sbsar compatibility, that would make things better as you'd have the controls from the shader itself and not trying to tweak substance materials with DS sliders.
Also, were you using the same environment map?
Yup to you.
I use it for full time content creation as an active PA. I love it. Saved me a lot of manual work. The node based workflow is industry standard and works the same as other professional software I also have in my tool kit. But we each have our preferences!
I'm happy to help out those interested with tips now and then but I'm not here to force it on anyone. That would be silly. It doesn't matter to me either way. I brought it up due to interest in the workflow... but this is a really good example of why I just usually keep things nice and vague. ;)
I should get back to rigging! Have a good night, everyone, and carry on.
~Bluebird 3D
Yeah, I was just hoping when I bought it that it would be a little more useful for the kind of work we do.
Heh I started experimenting with it again for the exact same reason, figured it's Metallic/Glossy workflow and height maps would be perfect for Iray use. Did use the same environment map in both Substance and Studio, got similar but noticeably different results. I wonder if the Iray material settings are just different enough from Substance's PBR settings to cause this change.
Quixel is something I'm tempted to get if I were to give it another try. Works inside Photoshop and less expensive. I know of one very popular PA who uses it successfully.
EDIT: Blue, I didn't mean to sound critical when I said I'll stick to Photoshop. You're good at what you do and perhaps if I knew as much about Substance Painter as you do, I'd like it more. :)
I think a big part of it is what you're working on. Blue, you do mainly environments, which substance is amazing for, and you're not stuck to a human figure's UV layout. For Daz/Poser style human figures though, it can be a pain in the arse. Roxie I think though is all one one UV map and not split?
This is one reason if I were to get into texturing, it wouldn't be people. I'm hating it in any app. Not as much freedom lol
If we're thinking of the same PA, he just came out with a nice looking tutorial for dDo over at another store.
That's actually not the same one I know, huh. Hopefully his tutorials will help more people make better textures and take full advantage of our new render engine. :)
or Gen 6 that worked out to be G2F/V6/G2M/M6,
You forgot V5 and M5-- quite a few products use them.
Its hard for me to show anything right now, though. I haven’t released an environment in months because I’ve been on other things related to figures but I can say I hear you here. You’re speaking about things that are in my current production pipeline. And I’m not the only one. The others have their heads down right now and are working furiously. I should get back to doing that, too.
Compared to Genesis 2 during launch? How much of it is attributed to an uber-limited wardrobe etc.?
This makes me very sad as I will absolutely not be purchasing Gen3, esp. when my comp is 5 years old and has trouble with Genesis 2 renders.
I am hoping that we continue to see Gen2 support to better degree than continuing Gen1 support once Gen2 was launched (ESPECIALLY BY RAVENHAIR AND MEC4D!!!!!!). Please, PAs, continue to support Gen2 non-skimpwear clothing, hair, and a new Chris-Palomino-like eyebrow geograft (I don't care about characters/textures as we already have a nice library of that-- the Genesis 1 eyebrows don't fit/transfer to Genesis 2 very well.)
You don't need to purchage G2, she's free in the Genesis 3 Female Starter Esentials. :-)
Yes, that's why I wondered if there was likely to be any support for the V7 maps, since they require a character purchase while everyone starts off with G3F. For whatever reason, it seems like seems like DAZ has been intent on making Victoria less a part of the core product and more a fancy add-on.
If nothing else, you'll see continued support for G2F at the other sites, since G3F is going to be a no-go for Poser. G3F seems nice, but the slight improvements in bending aren't likely to be enough to make that half of the hobby cross the aisle if they haven't done so already. There are just too many things that Poser still does better than Studio, so having a figure that can work in both is still going to be essential for a lot of folks.
For what it's worth, Substance Painter doesn't recognize anything outside of 0,0 and 0,1. Because of this, only the face can be painted on.
I sent G3F to hexagon, then exported as an OBJ and it fixed the issue with SP. For some reason Daz and Hexagon export differently, so it worked just fine after I did that.
And SP can work very well for Daz/Poser work, you just have to realize what you are visualizing inside the viewport is a preview. Just create needed textures and maps that you will then use in Daz. The material creation piece of it may be good for games, but the texture/map element can be useful for any render engine. Since I rarely dabble with games these days, I purchased SP exclusively for map creation.
I occasionally take my substance texture files back into Photoshop for certain types of projects. So the two do work together :)
And I use their B2M product as well. Same idea there regarding the preview, mostly use it for lazy and effective normal maps.
I sent G3F to hexagon, then exported as an OBJ and it fixed the issue with SP. For some reason Daz and Hexagon export differently, so it worked just fine after I did that.
And SP can work very well for Daz/Poser work, you just have to realize what you are visualizing inside the viewport is a preview. Just create needed textures and maps that you will then use in Daz. The material creation piece of it may be good for games, but the texture/map element can be useful for any render engine. Since I rarely dabble with games these days, I purchased SP exclusively for map creation.
I occasionally take my substance texture files back into Photoshop for certain types of projects. So the two do work together :)
And I use their B2M product as well. Same idea there regarding the preview, mostly use it for lazy and effective normal maps.
I did the same thing with Blacksmith3D (since I don't use Hex). It autostacked the UVs for me (it actually pops up a warning with the option to stack or not) and the saved obj from that works just fine in Substance.
Yes, that's why I wondered if there was likely to be any support for the V7 maps, since they require a character purchase while everyone starts off with G3F. For whatever reason, it seems like seems like DAZ has been intent on making Victoria less a part of the core product and more a fancy add-on.
That's the way DAZ 3D have done it since Genesis 1/V5.
That's the way DAZ 3D have done it since Genesis 1/V5.
Not, it's not. With the previous two generations of Genesis, the base figures came with a UV set that was a holdover/bridge to the previous Generation - Genesis Base default was V4 and it also came with M4 UVs, Genesis 2F could use V5 and G2M could use M5. This time around we've got a new figure that can't use any of the previous UVs, yet DAZ still introduced two different UV sets. Going by the pattern of the last dozen figure releases, it seems highly unlikely that PAs will support the V7 UV in any significant fashion, so why not simply introduce one new UV set and only go to new UVs when a character is significantly different physically than the G3F base?
All preview models was all the same build from one mesh that why it can share UVs easy way, Genesis 3 have not only different materials but also different poly count , it is possible to create UVs to match preview characters but the materials will never match and everything need to be loaded manually .
That's the way DAZ 3D have done it since Genesis 1/V5.
Not, it's not. With the previous two generations of Genesis, the base figures came with a UV set that was a holdover/bridge to the previous Generation - Genesis Base default was V4 and it also came with M4 UVs, Genesis 2F could use V5 and G2M could use M5. This time around we've got a new figure that can't use any of the previous UVs, yet DAZ still introduced two different UV sets. Going by the pattern of the last dozen figure releases, it seems highly unlikely that PAs will support the V7 UV in any significant fashion, so why not simply introduce one new UV set and only go to new UVs when a character is significantly different physically than the G3F base?
We know the answer to that :) Same as before. "prevents minor stretching that no one notices". Must make new UV for females that are built about the same...Yet they never came out with my big mamma UV's for really big girls that need more room allotted for dem thighs :(
That's the way DAZ 3D have done it since Genesis 1/V5.
Not, it's not. With the previous two generations of Genesis, the base figures came with a UV set that was a holdover/bridge to the previous Generation - Genesis Base default was V4 and it also came with M4 UVs, Genesis 2F could use V5 and G2M could use M5. This time around we've got a new figure that can't use any of the previous UVs, yet DAZ still introduced two different UV sets. Going by the pattern of the last dozen figure releases, it seems highly unlikely that PAs will support the V7 UV in any significant fashion, so why not simply introduce one new UV set and only go to new UVs when a character is significantly different physically than the G3F base?
What does that have to do with Victoria X having a different UV set than Genesis X? Victoria 5 had a different UV set than Genesis, Victoria 6 had a different UV set than G2F. Both V5 and V6 UV sets were supported by vendors. How does V7 having a different UV set than G3F signify some kind of change?