How good is iclone at turning daz clothing into dynamic cloth?
Jonstark
Posts: 2,738
I've been thinking about purchasing iclone, but I'm on the fence as to whether I really need it or not.
Since I have Carrara already, I don't lack for animation tools at all, and I have access to dynamic hair and even dynamic cloth to a degree through the bullet softbody physics. But I know of several other Carrara users who still use iClone as part of their pipeline, to set up basic animations before FBX importing the scene back into Carrara to add additional effects and rendering etc.
I've watched the video which included a mention of turning conforming daz clothing into dynamic cloth to interact with iclone physics, but I'm wondering how easy it is and how accurate it is.
Also are there a lot of included mocap files in the base iClone itself, and how easy are they to use with daz characters (ie V4/M4, Genesis1 and 2)? I see the iclone store is filled with mocap animations, so I'm wondering how many (if any) are included just in the base iclone package and how useable they are.
I admit I'm also intrigued to play with IndigoRender too, but that's not as much of a draw as it's the limited RT version and I already have plenty of fast unbiased render options (Octane, Thea, soon Luxcore, etc).
Can anyone give some ideas on this? I do have the scratch to pick it up, but it ain't cheap and if it won't be useful I don't want to spend on something I won't get good use out of.
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Comments
At the moment you can only import into iC6 via 3DX5 and no mocap plugin
all that needs iC5 which is the only thing you can export from with 3dx5, no backwards compatibility.
when there is a 3DX6 hopefully you can export softbody out too but unsure, I know you could not from iC5 just rigid the bullet physics collected as a clip.
PhysX is a different engine though and has timeline baking for softcloth simulation (iC6 has both engines you can choose) so I am guessing it will be exportable.
You can maybe look at the demo on the Reallusion site to see if it suits you.
I use all my tools but I originally came from starting with iClone before Carrara, Poser and DAZ (in that order too)
I had no idea Wendy! Thought you started with Carrara, and never even realized iClone had been around all that long, thought it was a newcomer to the scene.
I tried to get the iClone5 free offer by joining their site but could never find any links to it beyond the offer page itself. Trying the demo sounds like a good idea.
Does it come with a lot of mocap files just with the pro package? I see a ton of mocap packages for sale on their site.
There are a lot of included animations and a puppeteer function for customizing walks etc
I never got the kinnect mocap plugin but you would need iC5 for that anyway
figures with personas follow terrain too and all have foot contact.
The cloth I am new to but it really depends a lot on the UV mapping and construction of the clothes.
Yes I got iClone 3 in 2009 when totally new to computers and found C5 pro on a mag disc soon after
I was limited by my graphics to using iClone 3 only in vertex shading mode though so only got standard as waste spending much, was just my fun program for quick talking figures.
was through using that Carrara 5 I found DAZ, did not even know DAZ owned it at first was Evovia I at first rendered terrains and exported stuff to iClone from it then found DAZ content but DS crashed on my crappy laptop so stuck with Carrara and later Poser a bit but rendered Poser scenes in Carrara.
I only got back into iClone after getting my desktop.
May be this tutorial will help you:
Daz to iClone 6 Tutorial - Soft Cloth for Daz Characters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmbLIulalbk
Thanks Artini, I'm still at work at the moment so unable to watch just yet, but I bet that will answer a lot of my questions.
I missed the latest sale though, so unless there's one final catchup, it may be academic, because it's too expensive to go on a whim, only on steep discount.. :)
Ok, watched the video, actually very impressed with the cloth sim iclone offers. Much less impressed with hair, but basically it's a cloth sim too, so not surprising. I'm intrigued enough I might have to pick iclone up, see about fitting it into my pipeline. Thanks again for sharing :)
Today iClone is on 50% off
http://www.daz3d.com/reallusionanimation
I've been using Iclone and it works very well, but I just been using it on standard skeletons , not cloth
check the work we been doing on
Thanks for the heads up! Glad to see it's back on sale, now just need to decide what I need.
How fast is Indigo render compared to Octane?
Go for octane, i would avoid indigo.
it 's also RT version of indigo don't forget that.
and start learning Modo indie version...
Already got Octane (and Thea and Lux) just wondered if Indigo was at all comparable speed wise, sounds like it's not even close though. I knew it was the RT version which doesn't have SSS, wouldn't be rendering in iclone anyway but Carrara mostly, but was still kind of tempted to spring for the extra $100 to play with Indigo, even though that probably makes no logical sense... :)
well you cannot export from iC6 to anything but indigo yet so that might influence your choice
and no not quick
Argus mentioned I the Carrara threads he exports FBX and imports into Carrara all the time though? That's what I was thinking of doing, setting up basic character animation and doing cloth sim in iclone, then importing into Carrara for fine tuning, hair addition, other physical effects and scene setup, then rendering in Octane plugin, but maybe I've got this wrong?
Yes iClone 5 not 6
you will need 3dxchange 6 which has not been released yet to do that
For this workflow you need
- iClone 5.5 Pro + 3DXChange 5 Pipeline version
or iClone 6 Pro + 3DXChange 6 Pipeline version
- Facial Pipeline Character Pack
Consider, that you have to pay export licenses for animations you want to render outside of iClone.
So if I purchase the bundle including 3dxchange, that's for 5 even though iclone itself is 6, right? Any reason I can't use the 3dxchange 5 to export out of iclone6 or do they not work together? If they do work together, what is the purpose of 3dxchange 6.x, or what will it offer that's different?
As I understand it, if I buy the 3dxchange 5.x then when the 3dxchange 6.x is released later this year I also get that as a free upgrade (or have I misunderstood?)
Right now you get iClone6 + 3dxchange 5, so you are not able to Export.
You will get 3dxchange 6 for free.
iClone 6 was published in December. April starts and no 3dxchange 6 yet and no export yet. This shows the development speed of the small Reallusion Team. But compared to the Carrara Team they are blazing fast.
The Initial 3dxchange 6 will be a limited type of Software. You get the idea, what it will be in future, but several features are missing and will be implemented later.
thats a lot of money for very little benefit .
from what I heard - you will have to pay for 6 ( there will be a discount ) not free
I'm not sure how this could be limited.. isn't it's sole purpose to import/export files? As long as I can import daz figures into iclone and then when I'm done with the animations I can then export them out via FBX file that I can get into Carrara, not sure what else I need it to do, or am I misunderstanding something basic here too?
thats a lot of money for very little benefit .
Well, the cloth sim applied to conforming clothes looks pretty impressive in the tutorial video, that's the main reason I'm interested. Also I like the 'foot hits the floor but can't pass through' function when animating.
I can do cloth sim in Carrara too, but it's an effort to initially set up, and I'm not confident I can get the good range of cloth 'types' in movement that I can see iclone has set for defaults (denim, satin, linen, leather, etc)
I'm not wild about shelling out $200 - $300+ on a product I won't be able to test for the workflow I'm envisioning until months and months down the line with the 3dXchange 6 comes out though... Yet, it's a pretty hefty sale, so got to decide quickly...
Hi Jonstark,
I've had a lot of enjoyment from using Iclone5 and I do have iclone6 but have only opened it a couple of times so far! (The reason is I had to buy a new computer but I still mostly use the old one where most of my stuff still lives).
Before version6 of iclone came out I had no conflict of interest between Iclone and Carrara. Iclone allowed me to spend pleasant time seeing DAZ and Iclone figures animated very quickly and I could build quick scenes for them to move in. Particles, mist, waterfalls, flowers, water and so on could be added very easily and could be seen working instantly. Cameras are easy to use and it was nice to be able to turn out short animated clips just for fun. The quality of the end results was inferior to Carrara's.
Although I would love to create a full story with it one day, I've always been conscious of the superb tool I have with Carrara and I tended to think that the best I could ever achieve would be done in Carrara. Iclone would be used to give me a kind of 'quick sketch' preliminary version.
(BTW the most accomplished users of iclone5 turned out some beautiful work of a standard I could only hope to attain some day).
Now, however, with iclone6, I am forced to re-think what I'm aiming for. Version 6 introduces whole new learning curves such that, if I wanted to seriously embark on a short film with it, I think I'd have to use it exclusively and get to grips fully with its new capabilities to get the best from it.
I venture to say that your allegiance to Carrara is unlikely to be lost in that way in favour of Iclone and that your investment would be to have an animation workflow in which Genesis would be re-imported to Carrara complete with good physics cloth.
Much as I'd like to see you gain that capability my advice right now would be that another sale will surely come along and that in the meantime a lot of work is being done by others interested in the same workflow. I think there are difficulties to overcome and the newer 3dXchange is still to appear.
What to do?
1 You could just buy iclone6 as something to familiarise yourself with for the time being. Without 3dXchange you would really need to buy some extra content or make simple primitive props within the program. Just use it as a 'program in waiting' (and use the forums for seeing examples of everything Iclone can do). Perhaps start buying motion collections. Hopefully you would enjoy using it for its own sake.
2 You could buy both programs and wait for 3dXchange to be updated. 3dXchange Pipeline is needed for exporting and is too costly for me. But I haven't ever wanted the export function but if I did I guess I'd pay the high price.
3 If it is mainly about a workflow for cloth animation on Genesis, maybe look at Marvelous Designer instead? I think DUDU and PhilW use it with success.
4 It's said that Reallusion will create a plugin to accept motions created in the new Perception Neuron motion capture system which is being launched. That's even more cash but perhaps the motion capture system will be able to be directly applied to DAZ characters. In either case, I think motions for sale are going to increase everywhere if Perception Neuron becomes really popular.
For what it's worth, I enjoy having both Iclone and Carrara. For me it's the same as liking both DAZ Studio and Poser. Alas, in both cases I'd probably get further if I stuck to only one!
This has been a bit rambling (sorry) but my short advice is that another sale will probably come round again.
Just to add, earlier today I read that the 3dXchange price was reduced over at Reallusion but I don't know if that is Pipeline or not.
Actually I didn't think that was rambling at all and I very much appreciated the insight. I hadn't realized there were multiple versions of the 3dxchange, and that I would need more to it if I wanted to export.
I'm leaning pretty heavily towards waiting and not buying for several reasons, mainly that I now know this isn't a software I can immediately use the way I envisioned and will have to wait til the 3dxchange for 6 comes out anyway.
Also in the meantime who knows but that those Daz developers who have worked so tirelessly and quickly to update Carrara might just have a shiny new Carrara9 ready to go any moment now (yeah, right :) ) which will have bells, and whistles, and cool looking promos. :)
I'll probably waver on the decision right til the last minute, going back and forth, but at the moment I'm thinking I'll hold off for now. Like you said, there's always another sale at Daz. My concern though is this isn't really a Daz product, so who knows if iclone might get pulled from the store and this offer never ever comes again, and as a result I'm stricken with boils and left to waste in the wilderness muttering 'why didn't I buy iclone when I had the chance?'
Went and had a look at Reallusion's website to see what the differences between 3dxchange, 3dxchange Pro, and 3dxchange Pipeline are.
Very glad I was warned about this, it's seems crazy to me that there isn't one single importer/exporter function for iclone (actually it seems crazy to me that it isn't built right into the software). Only 3dxchange Pipeline can both import and export, all of this for the super low price of $499 - yikes!
There are also various bundles of this and that over there, and at the end of the day I was left mostly shaking my head in dismay. Iclone can get *very* pricey, very quickly when you start to factor in everything needed to make it part of a pipeline.
Wow, I have a new love and respect for Carrara at the end of it all, I take a ton of things for granted in Carrara (such as being able to import and export without gigantic extra addon fees for plugins, which prior to now I thought was something almost all software apps shared).
The dynamic cloth sim demonostrated in the tutorial was very impressive, but not so impressive I'm willing to spend that big on it, at least not at present, so I'll hold off for now. Thanks to everyone for giving me the inside skinny.
I bought the Iclone 6, 3DXChange5 Pro, Indigo bundle and the DAZ Genesis extension they had last night. It came with a 3DX5_repair_Tool_for_IC6.exe file that I imagine will let 3DXchange 5 work with Iclone 6. That bundle is not in the store today. Instead they have now this bundle:
http://www.daz3d.com/iclone-6-pro-3dxchange-bundle
It has everything I bought on the other bundle but Indigo. I also get confused with this new bundle that appeared today:
http://www.daz3d.com/iclone-animation-pipeline-3-in-1 (I could swear it wasn't in the store yesterday night.) So I would guess now I'm missing from that bundle 3DXchange Pipeline and the Mocap Plugin.
I wonder if there is a path to upgrade to Pipeline from 3DXchange5Pro, also a way to buy the Mocap plugin by itself. I go to the Reallusion website and everything is bundled, no way to buy single plugins there either.
I'm a total newbee and confused with their model of selling. Seems to be a big mess.
Upgrade will cost you about 150$ for Pipeline.
Forget about mocap right now, it is really bad. It was so bad, they wanted to drop development. New Version might be better. I think right now you cant buy individual mocap plugin.
Usually you are way better, if you buy a full package heavy reduced (60-75%), than buying an individual upgrade. The next sale will come, either here or at RL.
Pity you could not grab the iC5 freebie to play with
that might have given you a better idea about it
no harm in waiting and could save you money too as things rarely get dearer unless new version, more likely another sale.
Not everyone going to want iClone it is more an animation program than a quality render program, hence the indigo plugin for art shots.
To be honest I've been eyeing iclone for years. I have been almost ready to spring for it during so many sales until I finally did yesterday. I don't think I will have much use of Indigo. I've done the youtube tutorial they have importing Genesis 2 up to the second video. Nothing against Indigo but it seems to me that Iray and Octane are better. Is Iclone able to render DAZ characters in HD? I tried importing a Genesis 2 HD character but it came into iclone as nonHD so I'm guessing it can't.
I own the 3 in 1 Pipeline bundle and there isn't an upgrade path unless you buy the individual upgrades. Even though this is the cheapest option it will still cost nearly $400 all in. I regard this as utterly ridiculous and a slap in the face after shelling out for their premium bundle. ATM iClone 6 Pro is on sale but even at 50% off I'm still reluctant to reinvest because of the steep upgrade prices, no 3DXC 6 yet and not much added to the animation tools since v5. Not to mention the content export licenses cost a fortune. So in comparison, DAZ Studio is Free/iClone costs $$$, DAZ content can be used in any app/iClone content needs a special licence and a hugely expensive plugin. Think twice before buying into that system - I wish I had.