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Eyebrow Issues

AntausAntaus Posts: 41
edited December 1969 in The Commons

I need white eyebrows for a figure I'm working with, it's G2M/M6. Does anyone know of a resources anywhere that can help me with this? I have M4 as well and I'll work with it if nothing else, but I'd prefer G2M/M6

PS: Is it just me or does it seem like there aren't a lot of G2M/M6 resources out there?

Comments

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 42,003
    edited December 2014

    ...the best I can suggest is looking for eyebrow bushes/overlays over on Rendo or RDNA

    There is also a free set on DeviantArt

    http://marielena.deviantart.com/art/EyeBrow-Brushes-298496373

    You have to open the face texture you wish to use in either PS or Gimp remove the painted on eyebrows using the clone and heal tools, then apply the appropriate eyebrow bush/overlay (you will have to rescale the brush and adjust the colour to white). I have several elf characters with white and silver hair as well as one of the major characters who is light haired in a story I am working on, and found this to be the only method to get a correct match.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • SaiyanessSaiyaness Posts: 715
    edited December 1969

    http://www.daz3d.com/trystan-for-m4

    White eyebrows! :) Otherwise, you could much around with Photoshop - it may not look great but you could desaturate, invert and play with Levels until you get white brows and blend them into your texture map - but the results may not look great. :p I don't change eyebrow colours - it always looks shonky. :)

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 42,003
    edited December 1969

    ...on the flip side of the coin, I feel that mismatched eyebrow hair colour looks unnatural. The only time it looks OK is on someone older who's hair has turned grey to white with age. Otherwise to me it looks like hair dye was used.

    Fig 1. One of the most "familiar" white haired elf personalities.

    Figs 2 & 3. "Natural" blondes. F & M.

    blonde_2.jpg
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    blonde_1.jpg
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    Drizzt_by_Irishmile.jpg
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  • SaiyanessSaiyaness Posts: 715
    edited December 1969

    I'd love to make a character with pale eyebrows, lashes and can rock some lovely blonde hair. I hate blonde hair with dark brows. Also, I like dark, strong brows so I tend to make characters with strong brows. :p

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 42,003
    edited December 1969

    ...what is really disappointing is there is no more "brow" facial zone like we had with Gen4. so you can't replace the existing one with a different brow map.

    I remember there also being a freebie set of matching brow and hair colours for the original Sadie character (think I still have it somewhere). Easier to do with toon characters I guess as the brows are a separate mesh and not painted on.

    Another route could be to go with a hair generator like LAMH or Garibaldi, but getting the fine quality needed is rather difficult and I don't think they would move with the facial expressions properly.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,281
    edited December 2014

    Kyoto Kid said:
    ...what is really disappointing is there is no more "brow" facial zone like we had with Gen4. so you can't replace the existing one with a different brow map.

    Agreed. For G1 there is this tool:

    http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-eyebrows

    But it hasn't worked too well with the characters I've tried so far. An example:
    --

    G1-eyebrows01b.jpg
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    G1-eyebrows01a.jpg
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    Post edited by Taoz on
  • NovicaNovica Posts: 23,925
    edited December 1969

    Well, glad I didn't buy it if it puts wrinkles in the forehead like that. Not appealing! Thanks for showing it to us. Does it do that on all the ones you've tried?

  • Cris PalominoCris Palomino Posts: 12,600
    edited December 1969

    On the eyebrows, the skin is sampled from the forehead, so it's going to depend a lot on how the skin is created and whether there is shadowing, etc. It is meant for medium to long shots. As a result, with some skins, the edges may be more noticeable; it's the coloration and not that a ridge is produced. For those with PS skills, it should be fixable and easier to do than painting over skin and painting in new eyebrows.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,281
    edited December 1969

    Tried a few more, seems to work with two of them (I'm using the DS default light here).
    --

    G1-eyebrows06b.jpg
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    G1-eyebrows05b.jpg
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    G1-eyebrows04b.jpg
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    G1-eyebrows03b.jpg
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  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,281
    edited December 1969

    Cris Palomino said:
    On the eyebrows, the skin is sampled from the forehead, so it's going to depend a lot on how the skin is created and whether there is shadowing, etc. It is meant for medium to long shots. As a result, with some skins, the edges may be more noticeable; it's the coloration and not that a ridge is produced. For those with PS skills, it should be fixable and easier to do than painting over skin and painting in new eyebrows.

    Is it possible to fix by playing with the Surface settings? I've tried a bit, but it only made it worse (not sure what to change really so it was shots in the dark).

  • SpottedKittySpottedKitty Posts: 7,232
    edited December 2014

    Well, there's this Eyebrows For Genesis set that I used to use, which I'd love to see an update for so it works properly on the G2F/G2M figures. I just tried, and it doesn't quite fit properly on the face once Autofit's finished with it. A few more colour options wouldn't go amiss, either — it seems to only have auburn, blonde and brown in a few variations (and totally opaque over-abbreviated file names, which doesn't help).

    Edit: Augh, and now I see the posts upthread describing it. That's what I get for going off for supper before replying... :red:

    Post edited by SpottedKitty on
  • Cris PalominoCris Palomino Posts: 12,600
    edited December 1969

    Taozen said:
    Cris Palomino said:
    On the eyebrows, the skin is sampled from the forehead, so it's going to depend a lot on how the skin is created and whether there is shadowing, etc. It is meant for medium to long shots. As a result, with some skins, the edges may be more noticeable; it's the coloration and not that a ridge is produced. For those with PS skills, it should be fixable and easier to do than painting over skin and painting in new eyebrows.

    Is it possible to fix by playing with the Surface settings? I've tried a bit, but it only made it worse (not sure what to change really so it was shots in the dark).

    I don't know that surface settings will do anything; I would approach in post, since it's solely dependent on the skin it's sampling from.

  • Cris PalominoCris Palomino Posts: 12,600
    edited December 1969

    SpottedKitty said:
    Well, there's this Eyebrows For Genesis set that I used to use, which I'd love to see an update for so it works properly on the G2F/G2M figures. I just tried, and it doesn't quite fit properly on the face once Autofit's finished with it. A few more colour options wouldn't go amiss, either — it seems to only have auburn, blonde and brown in a few variations (and totally opaque over-abbreviated file names, which doesn't help).

    Edit: Augh, and now I see the posts upthread describing it. That's what I get for going off for supper before replying... :red:

    I'll have to ask Will if he has any plans to update to the G2 figures. I'll have to take a look at the names. See if there is a better way of doing it if a future product is made.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,281
    edited December 1969

    Cris Palomino said:
    Taozen said:
    Cris Palomino said:
    On the eyebrows, the skin is sampled from the forehead, so it's going to depend a lot on how the skin is created and whether there is shadowing, etc. It is meant for medium to long shots. As a result, with some skins, the edges may be more noticeable; it's the coloration and not that a ridge is produced. For those with PS skills, it should be fixable and easier to do than painting over skin and painting in new eyebrows.

    Is it possible to fix by playing with the Surface settings? I've tried a bit, but it only made it worse (not sure what to change really so it was shots in the dark).

    I don't know that surface settings will do anything; I would approach in post, since it's solely dependent on the skin it's sampling from.

    I'm not quite sure how this works, but if you copy the surface settings of the original mat (if these can be copied in some way) and apply them to the overlay, wouldn't that work?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 108,713
    edited December 1969

    The problem is that some skins vary significantly between the brow area and the upper forehead, and what the tool is doing is transplanting some skin from the upper forehead to the brow to cover the existing eyebrows (if you have a browless skin texture you can simply clear the masking surface and just use the eyebrow tool as an overlay). One thing you might try is a transparency mask with a wide transition so that the blend from transplant to base texture was spread over a wider area.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,281
    edited December 1969

    Taozen said:

    I'm not quite sure how this works, but if you copy the surface settings of the original mat (if these can be copied in some way) and apply them to the overlay, wouldn't that work?

    Hm, as far as I can see, that's exactly what the eyebrow tool is doing. am I right?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 108,713
    edited December 1969

    Taozen said:
    Taozen said:

    I'm not quite sure how this works, but if you copy the surface settings of the original mat (if these can be copied in some way) and apply them to the overlay, wouldn't that work?

    Hm, as far as I can see, that's exactly what the eyebrow tool is doing. am I right?

    Yes, it applies the skin settings from the character, using the materials file, to one layer, with an opacity mask, and then it applies the new eyebrow to a second layer above the first.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,281
    edited December 1969

    Richard Haseltine said:
    The problem is that some skins vary significantly between the brow area and the upper forehead, and what the tool is doing is transplanting some skin from the upper forehead to the brow to cover the existing eyebrows (if you have a browless skin texture you can simply clear the masking surface and just use the eyebrow tool as an overlay). One thing you might try is a transparency mask with a wide transition so that the blend from transplant to base texture was spread over a wider area.

    OK, I thought it was copied from the same area, but of course removing the existing eyebrows would be a problem then. Probably could be done with some image manipulation though but that would be pretty complex.

    Still wonder why DAZ chose to remove the brow zone in Genesis, a bad move IMO.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,281
    edited December 1969

    Richard Haseltine said:
    Taozen said:
    Taozen said:

    I'm not quite sure how this works, but if you copy the surface settings of the original mat (if these can be copied in some way) and apply them to the overlay, wouldn't that work?

    Hm, as far as I can see, that's exactly what the eyebrow tool is doing. am I right?

    Yes, it applies the skin settings from the character, using the materials file, to one layer, with an opacity mask, and then it applies the new eyebrow to a second layer above the first.

    Ah, OK.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 42,003
    edited December 1969

    ..as I use SSS lot, this does not look like a good solution.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 108,713
    edited December 1969

    Well, we had to lobby to get a brow added to Gen 4 - that's why the final V4 mesh is blMilWom-v4b, and why it's a separate body part and not part of the head (so that adding it didn't break existing morphs). After all that very few people used it for the brows, generally painting them on, so I'm not altogether surprised that it wasn't carried over to Genesis (disappointed, but not surpised0.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,281
    edited December 1969

    Richard Haseltine said:
    Well, we had to lobby to get a brow added to Gen 4 - that's why the final V4 mesh is blMilWom-v4b, and why it's a separate body part and not part of the head (so that adding it didn't break existing morphs). After all that very few people used it for the brows, generally painting them on, so I'm not altogether surprised that it wasn't carried over to Genesis (disappointed, but not surpised0.

    I guess the only alternative is to make the artists deliver the textures without eyebrows, and then some face textures with different eyebrowes (or just one, plus one without eyebrows so you can make your own, or with an optional add-on eyebrow pack).

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,281
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:
    ..as I use SSS lot, this does not look like a good solution.

    Doesn't seem to make much difference whether you use SSS or not. Here's a texture (Anwyn) which has both normal and SSS textures. Did some quick postwork on the SSS version, could probably have been done better, but at least you won't notice the overlay.
    --

    G1-eyebrows07b-pw.jpg
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    G1-eyebrows07a.jpg
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  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 40,327
    edited December 1969

    Anwyn has a separate eyebrow prop

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,281
    edited December 1969

    wendy♥catz said:
    Anwyn has a separate eyebrow prop

    Yes, I know, it was just to check how it worked with SSS and she happened to be the first character I found with SSS mats...

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 42,003
    edited December 1969

    ...yeah just going to stick with using the eyebrow brushes I use as I have the modification routine down pretty well now. Though I agree, it would be nice to have "non brow" face maps which would at least eliminate the need to paint over the existing ones.

  • BlueIreneBlueIrene Posts: 1,318
    edited December 1969

    Regarding eyebrows for G2M, I use Skin Builder Pro for Genesis and Genesis 2 Female(s) on my Genesis and G2 fellas, and haven't encountered any issues. Textures created for Genesis Females fit Genesis Males, and textures created for G2F fit G2M.

    http://www.daz3d.com/skin-builder-for-genesis-and-genesis2-female-s

    I seem to remember Zev0 saying somewhere that he had no plans to release a similar product for the males, maybe because of body hair, I don't know. My Daz fellas all wear clothes anyway and so no-one notices they haven't got hairy legs, and if I want some facial hair I just use a beard or tache from Genesis Beards. I really rate the Genesis Beards (which makes me feel better about hating the Genesis Eyebrows as I believe they're by the same person) and was well pleased to find that they autofit just fine to G2M. It's nice not to have facial hair on the males sometimes though - under-tens look so much better without a five-o'clock shadow :)

    Attached is G2M sporting a texture which includes black eyebrows, and was created using Skin Builder Pro and G2F. He's also wearing the Hair Cap from 'Beautiful Black Hairstyles' (for Genesis) and a beard from Genesis Beards. His vest is probably the only G2M thing that he can call his own :)

    Clyde.jpg
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  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 42,003
    edited December 1969

    ...OK have Skin Builder Pro and find it is a really nice resource.

    However...

    ...still find I have to take a lot of time to manually paint out existing eyebrows on a skin map in a 2D programme before adding new ones with the Eyebrow Tool. Is there any other way around this save for just building totally new skins? For example on one character I would like to use the EJ Lluvia skin maps so I can also apply the body painting (which is not an overlay but an optional skin texture of its own), but as usual, the painted on eyebrows are too dark for my needs (the character in question has white hair so I want the eyebrows to match).

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