LIE Baker thread / Documentation?
Cybersox
Posts: 9,275
Is there a thread hidden somewhere? I can't find any documentation showing up in the docs pages yet and I had a few questions as to how/what it actually stores.
Post edited by Cybersox on
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There's no hidden threads :) I didn't start a Coming S**n thread in the Commercial forum.
Here's a link to the User's Guide which should help you. LIE Baker User Guide
Er... thanks for responding but that seems to be a dead link. (And, as noted above, there's nothing on the DAZ documents page either.)
Guess it didn't like the space in the file name... Try this one LIE Baker User Guide
Hating to be a pain, but except for the last two paragraphs, that's the exact same text that's on the sales page. I was hoping for some info on how the images are stored...
Specifically - I'm not sure what exactly what this is supposed to mean: "Only the surface elements that have LIE will be copied over to the location of your choice, all other texture files remain in their original locations." My interpretation is that the image stored is a combination of both the original texture and the add-on LIE elements, which brings up the question of whether I can delete the original texture from my runtime and still have the LIE Builder preset work. Also, there's a question of the resolution of the saved Preset, as what I'd like to be able to do is take the same base texture and then create a series of progressive presets (say, an outfit that gets progressively dirtier over a set), and it would be easier to do that by continually adding to the preset as one goes along.
AFAIK, LIE elements are in png format. Presets are really just a set of instructions. The png layers in the LIE work the same as a png layer in Photoshop. Only with more flexibility. The LIE has been around for a long time but is often overlooked.
As I understand it, the LIE Baker takes any "texture" that is actually made in LIE, a stack of images, and makes a new image that is what you'd get by merging all layers in Photoshop. So anything that was used in a LIE stack and nowhere else you could, if you wanted, delete. Any images that were applied alone, not as part of a LIE stack, would not be duplicated to the new location.
Let's see if I can explain it better... (I'm much better at writing code, then typing in human ;) )
I'm going to use G2F as an example.
You have a character texture loaded like Bree, where all of the textures used are located at: Runtime\Textures\DAZ\Characters\MilWom\V5
Then you use a product like my Instant Makeup for V5 UV Skin Sets to apply some makeup.
In this case only the face is using LIE. DAZ Studio has created a temporary file and has given it some temporary name. With that done, you would start LIE Baker, which would only copy over the temporary files to the folder you have selected for Path for Baked LIE Texture Files. The name of this files would be Face[material surface name]_[the temporary name DAZ had assigned]. No other files are copied to that folder. When the preset is created it maintains the filepath and filename of the textures that had no LIE to the original, but the pointers to Face surfaces will now be to the path you selected with the new created filenames.
Does that help?
Let's see if I can explain it better... (I'm much better at writing code, then typing in human ;) )
I'm going to use G2F as an example.
You have a character texture loaded like Bree, where all of the textures used are located at: Runtime\Textures\DAZ\Characters\MilWom\V5
Then you use a product like my Instant Makeup for V5 UV Skin Sets to apply some makeup.
In this case only the face is using LIE. DAZ Studio has created a temporary file and has given it some temporary name. With that done, you would start LIE Baker, which would only copy over the temporary files to the folder you have selected for Path for Baked LIE Texture Files. The name of this files would be Face[material surface name]_[the temporary name DAZ had assigned]. No other files are copied to that folder. When the preset is created it maintains the filepath and filename of the textures that had no LIE to the original, but the pointers to Face surfaces will now be to the path you selected with the new created filenames.
Does that help?
Clear as mud, I'm afraid. Let's put it this way: if I baked a stack using Bree and Instant Makeup (both of which I have) and then went to the folder where the new preset is located and physically opened it up (not in DAZ, but in something like P3dO), what would actually be IN that folder? Would it contain the actual face texture of Bree or just the overlayed elements? And what about bumps, etc?
Where I'm really interested in this is in use with Skin Builder, which is mostly created in LIE. One of my big frustrations with that has been the lack of an easy path for add-ons. The Tan-line builder, for example, comes with a given set of swimsuit "stencils" that don't match the swimsuits I own, so I've had to create my own to match whatever outfit I'm matching and then manually switch them out. Having a single preset that was JUST the tan that matches X outfit would be a huge time saver, but it sounds like this would bake everything to Bree and only Bree.
Back in the Poser 5 days, RDNA sold several textures. They also sold png add on products to the textures. The method in the read me was to open the base texture in an image editor that supported layers, place the png layer on top of the base texture and merge. You were also instructed to save the new texture under a new name to avoid overwriting the base texture. In essence, you used the image editor to bake a new texture.
Does LIE Baker actually bake a new texture as the name seems to imply?
Clear as mud, I'm afraid. Let's put it this way: if I baked a stack using Bree and Instant Makeup (both of which I have) and then went to the folder where the new preset is located and physically opened it up (not in DAZ, but in something like P3dO), what would actually be IN that folder? Would it contain the actual face texture of Bree or just the overlayed elements? And what about bumps, etc?
Where I'm really interested in this is in use with Skin Builder, which is mostly created in LIE. One of my big frustrations with that has been the lack of an easy path for add-ons. The Tan-line builder, for example, comes with a given set of swimsuit "stencils" that don't match the swimsuits I own, so I've had to create my own to match whatever outfit I'm matching and then manually switch them out. Having a single preset that was JUST the tan that matches X outfit would be a huge time saver, but it sounds like this would bake everything to Bree and only Bree.
The baked stack would include the Bree textures... And if the bump and spec... and whatever had LIE (like some of my makeup one do) Those will also be baked and in the texture folder and include the Bree textures (if any). It does not save it out to Bree... The preset will load the original textures, from the original folder when there are no layered images as part of that material surface parameter. But if the material surface parameter has layered images then load the baked texture from where you told it to save to.
And yes... there is no easy path for add-ons... This is by design. Add-ons are potential new products.
Yes (actually it uses the temporary new texture that was 'baked' by DAZ Studio and copies it to a more permanent location), and creates a new preset (.duf file) so that you can use it again without have to wait like 4 or 5 minutes to reload and recreate the LIE structure and temporary files.
Yes (actually it uses the temporary new texture that was 'baked' by DAZ Studio and copies it to a more permanent location), and creates a new preset (.duf file) so that you can use it again without have to wait like 4 or 5 minutes to reload and recreate the LIE structure and temporary files.
I'm not trying to be dense so don't get annoyed with me. The temporary new texture that is baked is the stack created by the LIE. Basically the base texture and all the LIE elements used in the stack. The whole thing is then copied to a new folder and a new preset is created at the same time. This allows for quicker reuse because all the elements of the stack are in one place and there is one preset to apply them.
When the new texture is baked, are the various elements combined (merged) into a single layer or is it stored in a similar manner to a psd file?
I'm not trying to be dense so don't get annoyed with me. The temporary new texture that is baked is the stack created by the LIE. Basically the base texture and all the LIE elements used in the stack. The whole thing is then copied to a new folder and a new preset is created at the same time. This allows for quicker reuse because all the elements of the stack are in one place and there is one preset to apply them.
When the new texture is baked, are the various elements combined (merged) into a single layer or is it stored in a similar manner to a psd file?
All elements are combined into a single layer.
Has anyone used LIE Baker in combination with Carrara?
I'd be interested to know if you could pose a figure in DAZ Studio, set up various LIE layers to customize the figure's appearance, 'bake' the result with LIE Baker, save the scene, and then reopen it in Carrara and have the 'baked' textures loaded in.
Currently, there doesn't seem to be a way to use LIE with Carrara; you can't apply LIE layers within Carrara, and .duf files containing LIE layers don't import well to Carrara (you just get a black texture over the affected area). So if LIE Baker offered a way to do this, I'd be interested.
Hi DraagonStorm,
I hope you don't mind a Carrara question. I've ignored LIE products because they are DS only, but you've given me new hope. If the baked textures are saved as duf, does that mean they could be loaded into Carrara? This would make me a happy shopper ;)
One quick question on the script. After it creates the new .duf file, does it automagically assign that to the figure or do you have to browse out to the new file and apply it. I read through the pdf you posted and I'm assuming it's probably automagic as it doesn't mention having to go apply the new textures, but I wasn't sure.
Ooo... that's a good question. If the baked version would allow one to use LIE sets in Carrara, Poser, etc., it would gain a magnitude in value.
If Carrara can use .duf Material Presets then there would be no reason why that would not work. The texture files are no longer LIE... They are .png files now.
It's automatic... You use the .duf Material Preset that is created. The script has done all the assigning for you.
Ooo... that's a good question. If the baked version would allow one to use LIE sets in Carrara, Poser, etc., it would gain a magnitude in value.
For Poser, the user would need to create the DSON... But again, it is now not an LIE... It is just a normal Material Preset.
Thank you! (Must have typed same time as angusm, lol)
For Poser, the user would need to create the DSON... But again, it is now not an LIE... It is just a normal Material Preset.
Just tested, and the DSON converted Material Preset .duf file created by LIE Baker worked just fine in Poser...
I'd post a render, but I'm so not a Poser user... Don't have proper lights nor do I really know the tweeks necessary for DS material settings to look good in Poser.
As for Carrara, I own it, but it's not installed. I tried it a few years ago, and couldn't wrap my brain around how to use the interface. I would love it, if a Carrara user would give it a test, and tell me if it works in Carrara also.
Using this with Carrara was the first thing I thought of....I think I'll buy it and try it....
you can do layers in carrara,
have a choice of add multiply subtract and mix among other things in operator options, I use LIE images
can then save as multiple shaders to browser
not knocking Draagonstorms product but no need to fire up DAZ Studio to do this
Yes, you can certainly use Carrara's shader engine to do layering.
I guess the question is whether it's simpler to tinker with shader layers in Carrara (which can sometimes be a little intimidating for new users), or use DAZ Studio plus LIE Baker, then import the result to Carrara. I start to think that you might be right, and that using Carrara's shader engine would be the simpler way to go for Carrara users, though.
Incidentally, anyone who does pick up LIE Baker (or any other new release) might want to add Draagonstorm's Instant Makeup Scifi Tech A to their basket as well. It's included in the current batch of 80%-off M4/V4 products, making it very affordable. SimonWM's LIE Wound Artist is also one of today's 80%-off products, if you want to give your characters a hard time.
I agree that you can create layers in Carrara, but I thought I would give this a try to see if it added anything to my workflow. It helped me with adding overlays for Genesis and G2M/G2F characters. I found it a little easier than setting things up in Carrara, but that was mainly just less time searching for the textures to add the right channel. Saving off the one DUF via DS and applying that in Carrara was a snap.
But, I couldn't find a way to use this with V4/M4 in Carrara because those figures wouldn't take the DUF preset. Maybe there is a way--I just couldn't find it.
I like this option, though and I think I'll keep this purchase. It was easy enough to use in DS and seems like a time saver.
Thank you for the info, Salem2007. A buy for me too
Yes (actually it uses the temporary new texture that was 'baked' by DAZ Studio and copies it to a more permanent location), and creates a new preset (.duf file) so that you can use it again without have to wait like 4 or 5 minutes to reload and recreate the LIE structure and temporary files.
...so I could take character with the base Tommi (V4) map apply freckles with the Skin Overlay for V4/M4, bake it, and effectively have a fair skinned freckled texture map for whenever I need it. Interesting.
Does this also work with textures for static items like props on which you use the LIE? Foe example: a case texture with a specific logo on it (added with the LIE).
...so I could take character with the base Tommi (V4) map apply freckles with the Skin Overlay for V4/M4, bake it, and effectively have a fair skinned freckled texture map for whenever I need it. Interesting.
Does this also work with textures for static items like props on which you use the LIE? Foe example: a case texture with a specific logo on it (added with the LIE).
Yes. LIE Baker works for anything that has a surface parameter that has LIE applied.
...excellent, thanks.