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OT: Windows 11 October 5th and Other Interesting News..

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  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 12,109
    edited June 2021

    For most computer users I don't think this topic is worthy of all the attention it's getting right now.  It's five years away.  Every talking techno-head on the Internet is putting his 2-cents into the fray.  A tsunami of techno-babble.  I think I'll worry about it in 4 years.  Humans are strange creatures.indecision

    Post edited by LeatherGryphon on
  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 4,312
    edited June 2021

    takezo_3001 said:

    fred9803 said:

    So it is about privacy? Unless your runnng a website from your own server DDoS doesn't factor into it.

    DDossing is also getting your real-world address/name/family identity, which can be obviously abused by anyonomous nefarious people, like swatting, and stalking, even targeting someone with violence... so yeah, protecting yourself with a VPN is a good idea.

    Huh? I think we need clarity on terms here.

    DDOS is a distributed denial of service attack. It's a technique where many computers are used to access a web address at the same time in the attempt to overload the web server and disable the site.

    Doxing is where nefarious people get hold of your personal information and publish it in a public place in order for people to harass the victim IRL. It's a horrible practice, actually.

    Swatting is the even worse sybling. That is where nefarious people report the name/address of the victim as criminals committing crimes to the police in hopes that the police will mobilize their swat team against the victim. It's definitely targeting with violence.

    A VPN is not especially effective against any of that. Personal info more often come from mass-leaks from corporate databases left unsecured on the cloud. They may even be able to look up the desired info from a public records database on the web.

    Post edited by Torquinox on
  • takezo_3001takezo_3001 Posts: 2,026

    Torquinox said:

    Huh? I think we need clarity on terms here.

    DDOS is a distributed denial of service attack. It's a technique where many computers are used to access a web address at the same time in the attempt to overload the web server and disable the site.

    Doxing is where nefarious people get hold of your personal information and publish it in a public place in order for people to harass the victim IRL. It's a horrible practice, actually.

    Swatting is the even worse sybling. That is where nefarious people report the name/address of the victim as criminals committing crimes to the police in hopes that the police will mobilize their swat team against the victim. It's definitely targeting with violence.

    A VPN is not especially effective against any of that. Personal info more often come from mass-leaks from corporate databases left unsecured on the cloud.   

    You're right, Doxxing is what I meant, but got it wrong, thanks for the clarification!

  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 4,312

    takezo_3001 said:

    You're right, Doxxing is what I meant, but got it wrong, thanks for the clarification!

    Cool! Happens to me too. After a while the terms turn into word salad.

  • namffuaknamffuak Posts: 4,418

    LeatherGryphon said:

    For most computer users I don't think this topic is worthy of all the attention it's getting right now.  It's five years away.  Every talking techno-head on the Internet is putting his 2-cents into the fray.  A tsunami ot techno-babble.  I think I'll worry about it in 4 years.  Humans are strange creatures.indecision

    Given my "If it ain't broke don't fix it" attitude I'll probably start looking at ths in six or seven years - maybe upgrade to Windows 12 instead..

    Or I just might die before then - problem solved! laugh

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,897

    @ namffuak ...I feel the same.  

    Some comments on one of the tech journal sites I was on earlier are referring to W11 as the new "Vista".  So maybe W12 will be the new "W7"? 

  • Nyghtfall3DNyghtfall3D Posts: 813

    Update on WIndows 11 Requirements.  Of particular note for the TPM is this excerpt.  I've bolded the last bit:

    1. Security. Windows 11 raises the bar for security by requiring hardware that can enable protections like Windows Hello, Device Encryption, virtualization-based security (VBS), hypervisor-protected code integrity (HVCI) and Secure Boot. The combination of these features has been shown to reduce malware by 60% on tested devices. To meet the principle, all Windows 11 supported CPUs have an embedded TPM, support secure boot, and support VBS and specific VBS capabilities.

    One question I've had about TPM support is whether the motherboard needs a connector even if it doesn't have a module so that Intel and AMD's embedded TPM options will show up in BIOS.  The bolded line above tells me no.  To clarifity further, I asked Google if Windows 11 needs a TPM connector on the motherboard and found this at LiveMint.com:

    “The Trusted Platform Module (TPM) is a chip that is either integrated into your PC’s motherboard or added separately into the CPU," explained David Weston, Director of Enterprise and OS Security at Microsoft, in a blog post.

    Now I can stop looking for TPM support on motherboards.  I hadn't found any references to it on the nearly dozen motherboards I've looked at.  :P

    References:

    https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insider/2021/06/28/update-on-windows-11-minimum-system-requirements/

    https://www.livemint.com/technology/tech-news/why-windows-11-requires-tpm-chips-11624799346036.html

  • Nyghtfall3DNyghtfall3D Posts: 813
    edited June 2021

    The Live Preview was released today and excludes the TPM requirement if you'd like to take 11 for a test drive on otherwise incompatible devices.  You'll have to join the Windows Insider Program first but I understand it's a quick process and access to Windows 11 is instant.  Someone already posted highlights on YouTube, which include a few changes from the leaked version:

    Post edited by Nyghtfall3D on
  • Subtropic PixelSubtropic Pixel Posts: 2,388

    LeatherGryphon said:

    For most computer users I don't think this topic is worthy of all the attention it's getting right now.  It's five years away.  Every talking techno-head on the Internet is putting his 2-cents into the fray.  A tsunami of techno-babble.  I think I'll worry about it in 4 years.  Humans are strange creatures.indecision

    Silly humans, Trix are for kids!

    Torquinox said:

    takezo_3001 said:

    fred9803 said:

    So it is about privacy? Unless your runnng a website from your own server DDoS doesn't factor into it.

    DDossing is also getting your real-world address/name/family identity, which can be obviously abused by anyonomous nefarious people, like swatting, and stalking, even targeting someone with violence... so yeah, protecting yourself with a VPN is a good idea.

    Huh? I think we need clarity on terms here.

    DDOS is a distributed denial of service attack. It's a technique where many computers are used to access a web address at the same time in the attempt to overload the web server and disable the site.

    Doxing is where nefarious people get hold of your personal information and publish it in a public place in order for people to harass the victim IRL. It's a horrible practice, actually.

    Swatting is the even worse sybling. That is where nefarious people report the name/address of the victim as criminals committing crimes to the police in hopes that the police will mobilize their swat team against the victim. It's definitely targeting with violence.

    A VPN is not especially effective against any of that. Personal info more often come from mass-leaks from corporate databases left unsecured on the cloud. They may even be able to look up the desired info from a public records database on the web.

    Swatting is terrifying.  There have been stories where somebody, angry with their neighbor over some imperceptible affront, calls police and says, "my neighbor threatened me and I just now saw him outside with a (fill in the blank:  gun, knife, cannon, trebuchet, baseball bat, tank, etcetera); please come quick!"

    So then the police show up hell for leather, expecting to deal with some crazy person.  And maybe even take their weapons and kitchen utensils, leaving them unable to defend themselves from a predator or a pork chop.  Or the neighbor who made the call.

    namffuak said:

    LeatherGryphon said:

    For most computer users I don't think this topic is worthy of all the attention it's getting right now.  It's five years away.  Every talking techno-head on the Internet is putting his 2-cents into the fray.  A tsunami ot techno-babble.  I think I'll worry about it in 4 years.  Humans are strange creatures.indecision

    Given my "If it ain't broke don't fix it" attitude I'll probably start looking at ths in six or seven years - maybe upgrade to Windows 12 instead..

    Or I just might die before then - problem solved! laugh

    Or maybe not solved.  Example:  you wish to have your image and wisdom on display from a headstone hologram.  And it's not avaialble for Linux, of course.  D'oh!  surprisewink  Yes, I'll have the "Windows 50, Eternity Edition, please!"

    And since I'm never gonna retire, well I might be that guy walking through cemetaries at night applying vulnerability patches to headstones!

  • StezzaStezza Posts: 8,765
    edited June 2021

    Updated to 11 ~ took 30 minutes approx... all good

    Carrara works fine .. yessmiley

    Post edited by Stezza on
  • takezo_3001takezo_3001 Posts: 2,026

    I for one, will definitely bypass the home edition and opt for the pro version!

    $150 is a small price to pay for the privilege of not being forced to be online/sign in to an MS account!

  • GreymomGreymom Posts: 1,142

    Nyghtfall said:

    Update on WIndows 11 Requirements.  Of particular note for the TPM is this excerpt.  I've bolded the last bit:

    1. Security. Windows 11 raises the bar for security by requiring hardware that can enable protections like Windows Hello, Device Encryption, virtualization-based security (VBS), hypervisor-protected code integrity (HVCI) and Secure Boot. The combination of these features has been shown to reduce malware by 60% on tested devices. To meet the principle, all Windows 11 supported CPUs have an embedded TPM, support secure boot, and support VBS and specific VBS capabilities.

    One question I've had about TPM support is whether the motherboard needs a connector even if it doesn't have a module so that Intel and AMD's embedded TPM options will show up in BIOS.  The bolded line above tells me no.  To clarifity further, I asked Google if Windows 11 needs a TPM connector on the motherboard and found this at LiveMint.com:

    “The Trusted Platform Module (TPM) is a chip that is either integrated into your PC’s motherboard or added separately into the CPU," explained David Weston, Director of Enterprise and OS Security at Microsoft, in a blog post.

    Now I can stop looking for TPM support on motherboards.  I hadn't found any references to it on the nearly dozen motherboards I've looked at.  :P

    References:

    https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insider/2021/06/28/update-on-windows-11-minimum-system-requirements/

    https://www.livemint.com/technology/tech-news/why-windows-11-requires-tpm-chips-11624799346036.html

    My Asrock and Supermicro server boards (LGA-2011 v1/v2) have a socket for the TPM module, but no module.  Does not matter anyway, as the TPM chips are out of stock or being scalped, and the CPU's (E5-26xx V1 or V2) are not compatible with Win 11.   I have through 2025 with Win 10, so I will worry about it later.

  • NylonGirlNylonGirl Posts: 2,228

    I just found out my laptop can run Grand Theft Auto V but not Windows 11.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,897
    edited June 2021

    ...looks like it's either time to coax my old X58 to survive for longer now and hope the firewall holds or consider setting up a W7 VM with Linux on the front.  I'd definitely need a newer MB capable of supporting more than 24 GB GB as I need at least that much on the VM side to support the Titan X. for rendering in Daz. Most likely that means going to a single socket server MB with an LGA 2011-3  a "new" (older) CPU along with "new" DDR4 memory.  The one bonus, I'd get PCIe 3.0.

    Sort of been looking into this and it's about an 900$ (plus shipping) investment (using a Haswell 8 core E5-2640 v3, 8 x 8 GB EEC DDR4 2133 memory (split 32 W7 and 32 LInux to maintain 4 channel performance) on a Supermircro MBD-X10SRA ATX MB.   Wish I could go with a Threadripper but it doesn't support W7.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    edited June 2021

    takezo_3001 said:

    I for one, will definitely bypass the home edition and opt for the pro version!

    $150 is a small price to pay for the privilege of not being forced to be online/sign in to an MS account!

     

    I have Win 10 Home and I don't sign in with my MS account. I have a Local User account which is also an Administrator. 

    Post edited by marble on
  • takezo_3001takezo_3001 Posts: 2,026

    marble said:

    takezo_3001 said:

    I for one, will definitely bypass the home edition and opt for the pro version!

    $150 is a small price to pay for the privilege of not being forced to be online/sign in to an MS account!

     

    I have Win 10 Home and I don't sign in with my MS account. I have a Local User account which is also an Administrator. 

    I have win 10 Pro OEM I plan to also get the pro version of win 11 as well as you don't have to use your MS account/Internet for the first setup, unlike with the win 11 home version.

  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 4,312

    takezo_3001 said:

    I have win 10 Pro OEM I plan to also get the pro version of win 11 as well as you don't have to use your MS account/Internet for the first setup, unlike with the win 11 home version.

    The internet requirement may not be a hard requirement. I don't really see how you escape it if you get win 11 on a download, but I found a few articles like this:

    https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-11-home-requires-internet-to-complete-setup-but-there039s-a-workaround/

    The work-around seems to require pressing alt-4 at the right time during setup, and there is no proof that capability will be in the release builds. All your other tech overlords demand you make an account to use their stuff. Not sure why people think MS would be different or (at this point) what difference it really makes.

  • Noah LGPNoah LGP Posts: 2,617
    edited June 2021

    melissastjames said:

    I mean Windows 7 is 12 years old...MS no longer supports it...are we really expecting it to be supported for driver updates forever? I've been on Win 10 for two machines now...it's fine. 

    Note: Apple supports macOS only 3 years and the OS upgrades can't be installed on a 8 years old Mac.

    Post edited by Noah LGP on
  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 12,109
    edited June 2021

    takezo_3001 said:

    I for one, will definitely bypass the home edition and opt for the pro version!

    $150 is a small price to pay for the privilege of not being forced to be online/sign in to an MS account!

    During installation of Win10, disconnect your Internet.  Without Internet the system installs a local account.

    Also, during installation if you have an Internet connection Win10 will try to trick you into establishing an MS account, but so far, I've been able to find a small little phrase (usually at the bottom of a page) that if clicked takes you to a page (or two) that eventually leads to establishing a local account instead.  You have to be a detective though and carefully look in all the unusual places.

    Also, if you're already hooked into an MS account, you can disconnect from it, somehow.  I've seen it, I've tried it, it works.  But I forgot how.  I leave that as an exercise for the reader.  I operate all my computers with local accounts.  Both Administrative and Standard user, on all of my Win10-Pro and Win10-Home machines.

    Post edited by LeatherGryphon on
  • takezo_3001takezo_3001 Posts: 2,026
    edited June 2021

    Torquinox said:

    The internet requirement may not be a hard requirement. I don't really see how you escape it if you get win 11 on a download, but I found a few articles like this:

    https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-11-home-requires-internet-to-complete-setup-but-there039s-a-workaround/

    The work-around seems to require pressing alt-4 at the right time during setup, and there is no proof that capability will be in the release builds. All your other tech overlords demand you make an account to use their stuff. Not sure why people think MS would be different or (at this point) what difference it really makes.

    Oh don't get me wrong, I don't have too much of a problem with an MS account per se, it's just that I don't want those restrictions when I first set up my install as I:

    1. Have a 2-line paragraph password for my MS account, (And all my sites/etc where the password requirement is not strict) requiring a C&P input; which cannot be done during the initial win install.
    2. I don't like to rely on the internet for installs in case I have to reinstall windows as I lost my internet before.

    Thanks for the link, I think I read it before, I'm going to be waiting 'til they come out with the pro version anyway as I like the added features as well as the less strict install req...

    LeatherGryphon said:

    During installation of Win10, disconnect your Internet.  Without Internet the system installs a local account.

    Also, during installation if you have an Internet connection Win10 will try to trick you into establishing an MS account, but so far, I've been able to find a small little phrase (usually at the bottom of a page) that if clicked takes you to a page (or two) that eventually leads to establishing a local account instead.  You have to be a detective though and carefully look in all the unusual places.

    Also, if you're already hooked into an MS account, you can disconnect from it, somehow.  I've seen it, I've tried it, it works.  But I forgot how.  I leave that as an exercise for the reader.  I operate all my computers with local accounts.  Both Administrative and Standard user, on all of my Win10-Pro and Win10-Home machines.

    Thanks a lot for the info, but I should have been more clear, I meant the window 11 pro version, as I already have 10 pro, thanks all the same as the info is still sound!

    Post edited by takezo_3001 on
  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 12,109

    One of the advantages of using an MS account when you install modern Windows is that it records your license key in your on-line account for automatic use when you reinstall Windows on that same motherboard.  In the old days, if you forget your license key you used to be able to jump through some hoops and extract it from your local system.  However, recently (after forgetting one of my license keys) I tried the old ways and they no longer work.frown  There are some 3rd party apps that claim to find your key for you but everytime I try to download one my anti-virus or even Google screams bloody murder and disintegrates the download package on sight. indecision

     

  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 4,312

    takezo_3001 said:

    Oh don't get me wrong, I don't have too much of a problem with an MS account per se, it's just that I don't want those restrictions when I first set up my install as I:

    1. Have a 2-line paragraph password for my MS account, (And all my sites/etc where the password requirement is not strict) requiring a C&P input; which cannot be done during the initial win install.
    2. I don't like to rely on the internet for installs in case I have to reinstall windows as I lost my internet before.

    Thanks for the link, I think I read it before, I'm going to be waiting 'til they come out with the pro version anyway as I like the added features as well as the less strict install req...

    Thanks a lot for the info, but I should have been more clear, I meant the window 11 pro version, as I already have 10 pro, thanks all the same as the info is still sound!

    I read that you are going to use Pro. Sounds good :) I hoped the info might be helpful. I think, these days, MS has you pick a numeric pin as proxy for your password for logging in to your computer. I set one up not too long ago and that was part of the setup. Seems less secure than your actual password, but your 2-line paragraph might be a little unwieldy for regular use. angel

  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 10,024

    LeatherGryphon said:

    One of the advantages of using an MS account when you install modern Windows is that it records your license key in your on-line account for automatic use when you reinstall Windows on that same motherboard.  In the old days, if you forget your license key you used to be able to jump through some hoops and extract it from your local system.  However, recently (after forgetting one of my license keys) I tried the old ways and they no longer work.frown  There are some 3rd party apps that claim to find your key for you but everytime I try to download one my anti-virus or even Google screams bloody murder and disintegrates the download package on sight. indecision

     I'm not saying that, there is no such app, but IMHO 99.99% of those fall into same category as the "Surprice Million Dollar Lottery Wins" that one wins several times each day...

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 108,230

    LeatherGryphon said:

    One of the advantages of using an MS account when you install modern Windows is that it records your license key in your on-line account for automatic use when you reinstall Windows on that same motherboard.  In the old days, if you forget your license key you used to be able to jump through some hoops and extract it from your local system.  However, recently (after forgetting one of my license keys) I tried the old ways and they no longer work.frown  There are some 3rd party apps that claim to find your key for you but everytime I try to download one my anti-virus or even Google screams bloody murder and disintegrates the download package on sight. indecision

    I'm pretty sure that Windows 10 recognises that it is being reinstalled, even without using a Microsoft account.

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500

    I really can't remember how I installed Windows 10 but I remember being adamant at the time about not wanting to sign in with my MS account (which I have but don't want it linked to my daily use of Windows). So, somehow I found a way to install 10 Home with a Local User account and I am only prompted to sign in to my MS account if I want to access the MS store (i.e. hardly ever). There are some advantages to using Pro but I mainly use my PC for DAZ Studio and I'm not aware of any restrictions on that by using the Home version.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,266

    Richard Haseltine said:

    LeatherGryphon said:

    One of the advantages of using an MS account when you install modern Windows is that it records your license key in your on-line account for automatic use when you reinstall Windows on that same motherboard.  In the old days, if you forget your license key you used to be able to jump through some hoops and extract it from your local system.  However, recently (after forgetting one of my license keys) I tried the old ways and they no longer work.frown  There are some 3rd party apps that claim to find your key for you but everytime I try to download one my anti-virus or even Google screams bloody murder and disintegrates the download package on sight. indecision

    I'm pretty sure that Windows 10 recognises that it is being reinstalled, even without using a Microsoft account.

    It seems to depend - I'm not quite sure about the details but there seem to be a difference between just reinstalling on the same system, or when changing hardware, or, if it's a retail version, moving windows to a different device. 

    https://www.windowscentral.com/how-link-your-windows-10-product-key-microsoft-account

     

  • Subtropic PixelSubtropic Pixel Posts: 2,388

    marble said:

    takezo_3001 said:

    I for one, will definitely bypass the home edition and opt for the pro version!

    $150 is a small price to pay for the privilege of not being forced to be online/sign in to an MS account!

     

    I have Win 10 Home and I don't sign in with my MS account. I have a Local User account which is also an Administrator. 

    I have Win 10 Pro and I don't sign in with my MS account either.

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500

    Subtropic Pixel said:

    marble said:

    takezo_3001 said:

    I for one, will definitely bypass the home edition and opt for the pro version!

    $150 is a small price to pay for the privilege of not being forced to be online/sign in to an MS account!

     

    I have Win 10 Home and I don't sign in with my MS account. I have a Local User account which is also an Administrator. 

    I have Win 10 Pro and I don't sign in with my MS account either.

     

    I think the point was that the Home version forces you to sign in with the MS account whereas the Pro version allows a Local PC user account. Clearly there are ways around the Home version restriction because I and others are using a Local Account with the Home version. 

  • Subtropic PixelSubtropic Pixel Posts: 2,388

    And both also allow you to log in with a pin instead of a password.

    That is nice because the pin is specific to the hardware.

  • john_tannius_2c9c6edcdejohn_tannius_2c9c6edcde Posts: 0

    Daz is literally the only program keeping me from installing Linux. With Win 11 coming I was hoping someone had some progress on somewhat easy functionality on wine. Most of the linux threads I've run across are ancient though and don't really seem to allow for much. I was hoping for more than I got when Daz announce Blender support (I was hoping to be able to just install content into blender). Although at this point, I'd just be happy to have daz work in linux well enough to just load and export to blender.

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