OT: Windows 11 October 5th and Other Interesting News..
Ghosty12
Posts: 2,080
As the title says came across this video talking about Windows 11, and if true the desktop looks a lot like MacOS.. And on the next part Nvidia are to stop support of Windows 7/8 very soon..
Update: Just updating the title since we all know now that Win 11 is coming.. 
Update 1: We have a release date for Win 11, for those of us who can use it.. And it is supposedly a free update for those using Win10, will be interesting to see how well Win11 goes..
Post edited by Ghosty12 on
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The nVidia/Win 7 support thing is a bit of a blow. Looks like I may be forced to stop installing the new editions of DS once they get up to the max Win7 driver standard for my GPU.
Regards,
Richard.
I mean Windows 7 is 12 years old...MS no longer supports it...are we really expecting it to be supported for driver updates forever? I've been on Win 10 for two machines now...it's fine.
just forcing me to diversify
which is a good thing
I never used to use DAZ studio 3 unless I had to and as a result learned about many different softwares
I got a bit lazy with Genesis+ and D|S4 because it was all so easy
but
I am going back to my roots and trying new things again
and old things, used Bryce the other day
all my old programs and my Win7 PC work and the latter works heaps better than my Win 10 I swear at!!!
I'm aware it's unsupported, which is why the machine is offline. And, is actually the only reason I have a machine of its comparitively high spec - my employer got rid of it when Win7 was close to retirement. Was just hoping it'd be sufficiently 'up to date' to keep up with the latest DS for a little bit longer given that I've only been back to playing with DS for fractionally over 2 years after a break of 12.
Regards,
Richard.
I just got my first computer since windows 7 (yes about 11 years old computer).
Unfortunately thanks to world events, the graphics card has yet to arrive... I'd love an upgrade.
I'm sure lots of us would, if we could...
Yeah, Windows 7 is ancient now in relative terms of Windows OSes.
If the machine has 8GB RAM or more it should support Windows10 just fine. And it's quite possible that the existing Win7 license key will automatically work for free to activate Win10. There are, I believe, ways to read the existing Win7 key from the system if it's not on a sticker on the case or otherwise known. Yeah Win7 was nice but is now ancient and unsupported. And there's nothing showstoppingly wrong with Win10**. HOWEVER, before discarding your old Win7 make sure you have a proper backup, or just keep the old HD and replace it with a nice zippy SSD, download the Microsoft Win10 installer, activate Win10 with the old Win7 key if it doesn't activate automatically. Then create your login account(s), and migrate your data from the backup copy.
**Except perhaps unless you have software that is inexorably tied to Win7. Also, it's possible that some some Win7 business class group license keys do not work for activating Win10.
In spite of the free upgrade period ending last year, you can still upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10 for free through Microsoft, they are just not advertising it. I just did an upgrade for a friend yesterday.
On the linked page below, you download the Media Creation Tool (Download Tool Now button), then you run that, and it will guide you to download a Windows !0 iso, and from there create a bootable DVD or USB memory stick.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10
Activation is automatic as long as you have a valid, activated copy of Win 7 installed. It will automatically pick the version (Pro to Pro, etc.), so if you don't have the license key, you are still ok.
I have done this about 15 times in the last year, with no issues. Even got Win 10 working on some ancient X8DTT-F server blades (listed as not compatible, but it is only the video chip that is the problem, and there is a easy work-around).
I am keeping an older version of DS or two on Win 7 OS disks, and bought a couple of cheap hard drives for Win 10 and newer versions of DS. I just swap the sata and power plugs to select which one I boot on my two old X9 (dual E5-2680V2) workstations. I have too much invested in Maxwell GPU -based graphics cards to give them up just yet, so I will maintain compatible versions of DS and Blender 2.83 LTS for those cards. Blender LTS 2.83 is the last LTS version that is compatible with Win 7 and Maxwell GPUs. 2.93 LTS will not run on Win 7.
I generally stay offline when running Win 7, but I installed Malwarebytes for protection - it stillworks with Win 7.
Thanks, good to know - still have a Windows 8.1 system left I want to upgrade and was wondering if it's still possible to do for free.
As for the license, I've upgraded several Pros but some were originally OEMs (XP Pro OEM > Win 8 free upgrade > Win 10 free upgrade), but when I check they all appear to be Retail, not OEM, meaning you can move the licences to new devices if you want. Have anyone else tested this? You can check from command prompt using: slmgr /dli
I don't plan to upgrade (still on Windows 8.1). I don't want Windows 10 because I want to be able to control my own computer that I paid for - not some far away company in California that did NOT pay for my computer. When there comes a day that I can no longer use DS, then it is what it is. I'll finally go to Linux full time. There's always Blender.
Laurie
...hmm the Daz 4.12 beta I use seems to run fine and incredibly stable on W7. No real desire to update it as most of the new features it has I wouldn't use. and I'm pretty much satisfied sticking with with G3 and the few "more interesting" G8 figures/charaters I have.
Just read about this in one of the tech journals I subscribe to and just a bit sceptical. Would be nice if 11 turned out to be the "W7 to W10", but as I mentioned in my comment to the article, not holding my breath. 8 was a mess and 10 was built on that foundation of a "one OS fits all" concept. MS believed they needed to be the "knight in shining armour" against malware and to that end decided it best to lump professionals and power users in with the least common denominator. I had no trouble keeping W7's security up to date on my own every "patch Tuesday" and could completely ignore unwanted feature updates forever..
So, time to "wait and see".
As to Nvidia, so I guess if you want a 4000 series card when they come out it's W10 (or 11) only. I'm still running the 451.48 driver and it's doing just fine.
...thank you fort the information about Blender. Currently have 2.90 and my system is indicated as compatible running W7. As 2.83 LTS is pretty much similar to 2.90 and the last "stable" release, maybe I should install that instead as any new update beyond 2.9 would likely be unusable.
...actually MS is HQ'd in Redmond WA (a suburb of Seattle) but yeah, west coast.
It does what I need - Daz Studio, DIM, and a very few support items. The main render system has no internet connectivity; if/when I can no longer upgrade Studio because of driver requirements I'll decide if I want to upgrade the OS. I haven't begun to scratch the surface of Studio's capabilities, so foregoing further updates is always an option. I do have the W10 iso image available and a spare 500 GB SSD; if I do upgrade I'll copy the OS to the spare SSD, swap it in as the OS drive to make sure everything works, and then upgrade it.
Same. DS has been the last program keeping me in Windows and will keep as long as I can run it on Windows 7.
Has nothing to do with the computer being too slow. It's the control attempt over MY computer by MS.
Just because nVideo no longer will support Win7 doesn't mean you have to stop using it, If you don't use any newer versions of Daz or newer graphics cards, you should have no problems running Daz on Win7. Newest is not always the best. Look at the problems people have had with Win10 compared to Win7. I also know some people who don't want to upgrade their graphics cards because the newer one's are having issues and not just with Daz. Who want's to be reminded of constant updates from Win10 you had no control over?
...true and this current generation still is useable on W7, just that newer drivers won't be available after October. The main reason to get a new card like a 3090, A5000, or A6000 is more VRAM That would still work with my current version of Daz (though I may need to upgrade to an MB with PCIe 3.0). Of course this is all based on Crypto tanking and GPU prices coming down.
Looking at older Quadro cards the Turing versions still hold a premium value in many cases. The Turing Quadro RTX 6000 is fetching higher prices on eBay than the MSRP for the Ampere RTX A6000 which has twice the VRAM of it's predecessor.
Everybody mentions lack of control with Win 10, but you can turn updates off for a month at a clip and it doesn't say boo to you. And you can shut off all the reporting functions when you set up the OS...you just have to make sure you read through everything and turn it off.
Windows 10 was bumpy at first, absolutely, as is to be expected. But for the past few years, I can honestly say that I haven't noticed any less performance or stability than when I was on Windows 7. More resource use? Okay, yeah...but that's to be expected too...but I also have a heck of a lot more power than I had when I ws running Win 7 (three systems ago). I pay more attention to what my system is doing and I'll shut updates off if I don't want them to go, but my husband doesn't do crapola with his system and it just runs without intervention.
I should make note that we don't use Windows security...we sub to Norton 360, which I've used for over a decade now and have never had issue. But it plays just fine with Windows 10...the OS automatically shuts off what it needs to and doesn't interfere or try to overlap. Which actually now that I think on it, I did have some issues with Win 7 in that department.
...yeah Windows Security has pretty much been akin to a screen door on the ISS. Stopped using in back in the Xp days after my notebook got hit by a redirect virus that mimicked a MS update (it used the same exact screen) and I moved to Norton, never an issue after that. Currently running Norton 360 with Lifelock™.
It would be nice if with W11 MS gave Pro users the ability to simply reject feature updates for good and returned to individual security update files instead of having them all bundled under one "K" number. I never had an issue on Patch Tuesday researching each single update file for bugs (and I found quite a few over time) that had the potential to introduce instabilities. The extra time involved less (than an hour each month) was well worth not having to deal with issues afterwards.
Even if I can delay feature updates for a month or so with W10 I don't need more useless fluff installed that I have to chase down to remove. Bad enough a lot of it ends up on your system by default during the initial install (some of which required meddling with the registry to totally eradicate) only at a later date have it reappear like a bad penny.
Windows 7 was the best os since XP and if it were not for new motherboards Ryzen CPUs dropping support for not supporting it I would be still using it up until now, as losing major hardware/software support is not worth clinging to the long-dead past, so it is inevitable that everything changes, it is how you adapt to it, which determines whether you evolve or die out...
Sure the dumbing down of the UI is offensive to me, but there will always be software developers that will bypass those changes!
I have software that allows me to literally change the UI to near-win 7's anti-metro vanilla blandness, from the icons, windows even the mouse and sounds, not to mention bypassing windows 10's spyware levels of anti-privacy, but yeah, I still miss windows 7, but windows 10 has been much more stable an OS in spite of my nostalgia glasses!
Also, it is well worth it to get the pro version, and you can get it on the cheap, legally through OEM distribution installers, which suits me fine, as I built my own system! (Before the DIY crash of the 20-21s that is...)
EDIT: My mistake, it was Ryzen that didn't support win 7, not motherboards!
At work I use a Win10 Dell with a Quadro Pro 4000 graphics card. Microsoft regularly updates the GPU driver to the latest one. The makes it unusably unstable with SolidWorks 2020, and we have to re-install the most recent stable version for that combination, which is 443.61. It is extremely irritating that we cannot flag that driver as one we MUST keep. It does a really good job of failing to endear itself to me with that behaviour.
I have the same useable power with this machine as the Win7 one at home. The extra overhead of Win10 completely negates the beneficial effect of the extra ram and 33% faster processor with 50% more cores. Having used both for 8 hrs a day for years, you get a feel for the things, and the only benefit of Win10 I have come across is the SSD enhanced starting time. Nothing else appears better and a fair bit is aimed at reducing user control of their own machine, which cannot be considered a good thing for a competent user.
You're right of course. Brain fart ;). But the sentiment is the same. I'd rather control my own equipment ;).
Here's a forum post that could help relieve some of the frustration of the win 10 independence issues, as far as updates, you can bypass the default mandatory updates with the pro version via postponing the updates in 1-month increments, I personally miss win 7, but unfortunately, there will always be those that want to change software/os, for better or worse; it is the nature of the beast... as mentioned in the forum, a lot of the restrictions have been because of anti-hacking/virus preemptive restrictions which will inevitably negatively affect the end-user...
As far as NVidia is concerned, I don't see a better solution, but I'm glad they provide older versions of their drivers for us to roll back to...
...same here, I have that with W7 (both the Home and Pro Editions) and that is one of the reasons I balked at 10 even with the "free" upgrade they offered, particularly as at the time I was still running W7 Home and that's the version of 10 would have received..
...I wasn't aware of MB's dropping W7 support. Wondering if that started with Ryzen and Kaby Lake generations as the CPUs only supported W10 (however I remember a hack to get Ryzen CPUs to recognise W7).
Indeed, not just the "dumbing down" but MS having to hold everyone's hand (including the most experienced users) like some sort of crossing guard I thought was demeaning.
Having to keep pushing back updates each month is a bother, and eventually you have to accept the updates whether you want to or not..
Sadly, the vast majority of home users are of the "did you turn it on" level of competence when it comes to computers, so I can totally see MS and other software developers gearing themselves towards a dumbed down user interface. With less control, there's less to screw up. But on the other hand, I can see how advanced users would find this disheartening.
I've never had Windows 10 try and overwrite my display driver...not once. I always update that directly from the NVIDIA website at my own leisure, which can sometimes run months behind.
You can turn off driver updates under Group Policy ("Do not include drivers with Windows Updates").
Actually, like allenart, I experienced brain flatulence... it was NOT MoBos that didn't support Win 7 but Ryzen! I'll edit my post!
EDIT: Actually, while searching the subject I found out that there was a way to get Ryzen working for win 7, but too late for me as I already upgraded/built my system!
Yeah, but a lot of mobos don't support it too. I ended up grudgingly having to switch to stupid 10 from 7 because the mobo didn't support it, and the wired internet port drivers didn't work with 7. I liked 7 better because it didn't have a bunch of crap I don't want installed and intergrated wtih the OS. I just want my OS to run the programs I tell it to, and that's all. With 7 it was easy to slim it down to barebones. With 10 there is a bunch of third party stuff to strip out the telemetry turn off updates until I tell it I want to check for them, and a lot of the crap I don't need, but it's more of a hassle.
I've been using Windows 10 since the day it came out, and this has never happened to me. I never had to disable anything to achieve this, either. It sounds like your staff allows Windows to install everything itself...you don't have to do that. Contrary to what you say, you actually do have a fair bit of control over Windows 10.
I miss Windows 7 sometimes, but ultimately I don't think about it unless someone mentions they still use it. Windows 8.1 was a wonderful OS imo (though Windows 8 was pretty bad...) and Windows 10 is basically a continuation of that. Granted, I use the "pro" version so the home edition could be crummy, I have no idea. My favorite features of 8.1/10 over win7 is the vastly improved file search speed, the Win+X menu that has lots of handy power-usery things, and the Linux subsystem thing has come in handy a few times for scripting.
But I'm mostly a Mac user (except for Daz and video games) so my opinions might be skewed here.