What’s the deal with G8.1?
Philippi_Child
Posts: 663
in The Commons
Outside of expressions what other improvements has there been to this character? Is there body improvements as well?
or is this a base figure with just facial improvements and nothing more?
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Comments
The eye geometry was updated and it really does look better.
The eye geometry is actually still the same, but the UV's were updated though and yes, they're a vast improvement, so much it really seems like the eye geo *was* changed. There is also a new tear geometry that was added that is just amazing if you ask me. It is such a little thing but it really has an awesome effect. The eyelashes are also new with 3 layers instead of two and a more varied base position so you don't get a straight line of lashes across the lid. The base skin, as mentioned above, has a new UV as well. This basically creates a less stark difference in texel density (I think that's the right word) between the face and neck and torso. It's a better transition. This is a great improvement for portraits, not so much for farther back. But it's easier to seam as a character maker (though it's an additional seam, so there's that XD ).
I liked G8.1 but with the new hardware requirements of 4.15 I am not an adopter at this point, until I can afford an upgrade. That said, the expressions are nice, but I need to see more. There was sort of a sameface quality to the onest hat came with the male figues, so hard to say.
You don't need 8.1 to enjoy ANY of those features.
The new tear can be used on 8.0 by simply altering the scene ID of the tear to 8.0 and saving as a new prop. Same for lashes. Additional tip: add smoothing to this tear prop. It makes it blend in even better.
Eye textures can aways be adjusted to compensate for their UV. All 8.1 does is make the UV easier to do this. At any rate you can also use this new UV on 8.0 by saving the eye UV.
The skin shader can be used on anything, it is not exclusive to 8.1, or even Genesis. This is an Iray upgrade, not a Genesis upgrade. I'm also not sold on whether this a real upgrade. It is simply different. It is still up to the PAs and users to work out how to best use it. Just switching to PBR Skin does not give you instantly better skin.
Even the face rig is available in the store as a product for 8.0. Only the face bones have changed in 8.1.
You can install and use 8.1 on older versions of Daz. It just will not have access to the 8.0 morphs and the skin shader. If you are worried about 4.15, then install the beta. The beta will not overwrite the regular version.
I don’t see any advantage at all. The new shaders look awful and it doesn’t show as compatible with G8 products in smart content and you have to jump through hoops to get expressions to show up and when you do, there are doubles of some. I purchased one 8.1 character and I regret getting it. The way things are going I may be done buying any new characters unless they are G8 or come with a great bundle, So far I have yet to see decent skin on a G8.1 character. Maybe that will change as artists learn how to use the new shaders, but I’m just at a point where I like what I can do with the old shaders. I think it’s just an excuse to make people buy more incompatible products.
I like the 8.1s, but I also like to make portaits which is think where the main advantage lies.
The shader may be better, but I've not been too impressed with most textures created using it. For now, we can put that down to PAs still learning to use it.
The skin shader is of course, a shader, not part of Genesis 8.1 itself, but it was introduced with G8.1 and core 8.1 characters are using it.
The shader itself is not supposed to make instant better-looking skin than the Uber Shader. They share almost the same settings but organized for skin with some new options. I personally use it for the detail normal map and it does make a difference in my closeup renders.
The one thing that has really improved is the facial expressions. The rest is all details that don't matter too much to me, as someone who doesn't care that much about photorealism and doesn't really do close-ups.
The changes look far less significant than the ones that caused the G3-G8 change, so it's reasonable to consider it an incremental change rather than a new character. Thus far I have seen two characters that impress me (Ginny by Mousso in particular), but the 4.15 transparency downsides visible with hair and Ultrascenery have put me off upgrading from 4.14 so far.
Regards,
Richard
The *bones* have not changed. Only the expressions.
I ask because I'm weighing the advantages of 8.1 and if moving to 4.15 is worth it. I've always moved ahead on DS and the evolutions made. But to make a permanent move I'm not sure of. I've read far too many issues with 4.15 from here and experiences from friends. I still use 4.12 because of the stability of the platform. I was just wondering if 8.1 was worth making the upgrade to 4.12. Thank you all.
I have 4.10, 4.11, 4.12 and 4.14 on my PC, and all can work.
Prior to installing a new one, I rename the DAZ Studio4 directory in program files as 'DAZ Studio 4.1x where x is the relavent installation number. Then the new version is installed in the normal installation directory. I have found that if I add a shortcut to the old program in its new directory (say 4.12), then I can get that old version to run normally independantly of the new version while accessing all the content. It may be worth considering.
Regards,
Richard
The new facial expressions are fine but not worth all the trouble I have with my beloved fable and furry creatures when I try to use them on G8.1. Also, the skin shader may be a technical improvement but I can achieve similar results just with Iray Uber, and the majority of my customers for coloured images even prefer it done with Iray Uber. For b/w images, the new shader is just useless and nothing else thanks to the fact that SSS effects are lost in the editing process.
The 8.1 generation appears like an art direction change rather than an update. My issue is that the art is shifting towards a more stylized look (cartoony/exaggerated features). When you mix classic 8.0 with 8.1 models in the same scene, they don't match well. Yes the older gens offered a mix of cartoony and photoreal characters, but my point is more about the overall art direction as a whole for Daz. Not sure if Daz got a new artist recently but the direction is changing fast towards this. Maybe stylized sells better and more people prefer this, but in my opinion this is not ideal in the long run. Hopefully this was just the case for the first few 8.1 models released.
Look at the comparison in this image. Using the same textures, the only difference is the face morphs using Michael/Victoria 8.0 vs 8.1. Which one looks closer to real?
Would you make a Max and Maxine for 8.1 please? And maybe try to do it so the base texture materials are albinos but then your skin materials tint presets have many other shades we can choose from.
8.1s victoria and Mike are college age so their look is a lot younger than Version 8. Daz store seems to equate youth with toony.
Remember Victoria 4, Victoria 4.1, and Victoria 4.2?
Those were more like bug fixes with incremental updates...
There's also the vellus hairs with G8.1 too, right?
Another good feature for close-ups...
Mousso already has that on many their G8 characters that can be used on any character.
In my opinion the 8.1 versions really looks a bit cartoonish. Are you sure everything is set the same - e.g. eye size of Victoria or some age sliders on Michael?
I'm still hoping for much more realistic figures... Genesis 8.1 was not as major of an update as I was hoping for, but it's a step in the right direction...
It would be really great if Genesis 9 actually used proper 3d scan data / photogrammetry of expression sets and key bend poses for much more realistic human proportions, facial features, and anatomy.
Wow — there's a much bigger difference in the face of Michael 8.0 vs. 8.1 — the crispness of the facial details seem to be getting lost in the 8.1 version... the cleft chin, jawline, angles on the upper lips, and sternocleidomastoid muscles near the ear are all appearing to be smoothed over in the 8.1 version. Is this normal?
I didn't like the look of Michael 8.1 (or anything in his pro bundle), I held off buying it, so I only have Victoria 8.1 to compare for now...
I wasn't able to post in the forums earliers...so just testing ;-)
Yep!!!