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NFT and the Future of Digital Content

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  • zombietaggerungzombietaggerung Posts: 3,844

    NFTs for the uber rich when that 10th Bugatti just doesn't fill the hole anymore. laugh

  • CrescentCrescent Posts: 333

    Side note - when people are comparing the old DRM scheme DAZ tried to implement to this new NFT scheme, they're referring to how well the DRM went over in the forums (a.k.a. it went over as well as a lead balloon near a black hole.) People were angry, refused to buy anything with DRM, and eventually DAZ relented after several months of trying to promote how great an idea it was. Us old timers are saying, "Yeah, this NFT thing is about as popular as the DRM was and will probably end up discarded by DAZ after months of being telling us how we'd learn to appreciate it any day now." Although the technologies have nothing to do with each other, the basic principles of "What does this accomplish?" and "How does this help me with my art?" have the same answer - neither does a thing for what we care about. NFT doesn't solve anything for us. It's a weird, new shiny that is taking away resources from DS - catching up on customer tickets, fixing filament transparency issues, improving render times, etc.

    plasma_ring said:

    While I've liked a lot of their moves in the past year, Daz has made very little effort to organically build a community outside the forums. Big flashy promotions that don't make sense to existing users are like trying to catch a comet's tail--you wave your arms real big and try to get the attention of people who are outside your usual audience and don't know they need your product yet. 

    But Daz really likes that kind of marketing, and I have very rarely seen them do advertising that actually describes what their product does for a user in a straightforward way. They don't meet existing customers where they are and they don't seem interested in growing communities around common uses for the assets they sell. 

    Clip Studio Paint built an enormous, loyal audience that basically advertises for them, and they did it by finding Artist Problems and explaining how their software solves them. You do comics? Look how easy it is to set up panels on pages. You do digital painting? Check out all the free brushes you can download. Then they go into specific use cases, showing practical applications for different features. On social they're always giving away graphics tablets and spinning up art contests, which spread like wildfire. They reach out to people at the entry level and encourage them to join the community. 

    Maybe Daz could catch on with influencers who want their own digital avatars and blow up that way, but they could also go a little more down to earth and find a wider variety of people using their stuff who would then be willing to tell their friends, and so on. 

    Yes!

  • fred9803fred9803 Posts: 1,565

    zombietaggerung said:

    NFTs for the uber rich when that 10th Bugatti just doesn't fill the hole anymore. laugh

    Yeh things do seem a tad over-priced. Shudu 24k on OpenSea $184.09 and all you get is a video. I suppose it would be bought on speculation that it could be on-sold for more.... like how the stock market works.

  • AHArtAHArt Posts: 202

    Have no idea what any of this is and reading through this thread has just confused me even more. As a digital artist, I sell originals all the time, as in print said digital work, sell in art gallery, never print said work again (all are printed as one off's). 

  • Jason GalterioJason Galterio Posts: 2,562

    fred9803 said:

    zombietaggerung said:

    NFTs for the uber rich when that 10th Bugatti just doesn't fill the hole anymore. laugh

    Yeh things do seem a tad over-priced. Shudu 24k on OpenSea $184.09 and all you get is a video. I suppose it would be bought on speculation that it could be on-sold for more.... like how the stock market works.

    $185 might be a small amount of money, unless you are planning to use that investment to conduct a private sale to move a large sum of money untraced.

    This may not be what will / can happen, but its one of the things that concern me about the whole scheme.

  • Kaleb242Kaleb242 Posts: 344

    Too soon.

  • Jason GalterioJason Galterio Posts: 2,562
    edited March 2021

    Crescent said:

    Side note - when people are comparing the old DRM scheme DAZ tried to implement to this new NFT scheme, they're referring to how well the DRM went over in the forums (a.k.a. it went over as well as a lead balloon near a black hole.) People were angry, refused to buy anything with DRM, and eventually DAZ relented after several months of trying to promote how great an idea it was. Us old timers are saying, "Yeah, this NFT thing is about as popular as the DRM was and will probably end up discarded by DAZ after months of being telling us how we'd learn to appreciate it any day now." Although the technologies have nothing to do with each other, the basic principles of "What does this accomplish?" and "How does this help me with my art?" have the same answer - neither does a thing for what we care about. NFT doesn't solve anything for us. It's a weird, new shiny that is taking away resources from DS - catching up on customer tickets, fixing filament transparency issues, improving render times, etc.

    plasma_ring said:

    While I've liked a lot of their moves in the past year, Daz has made very little effort to organically build a community outside the forums. Big flashy promotions that don't make sense to existing users are like trying to catch a comet's tail--you wave your arms real big and try to get the attention of people who are outside your usual audience and don't know they need your product yet. 

    But Daz really likes that kind of marketing, and I have very rarely seen them do advertising that actually describes what their product does for a user in a straightforward way. They don't meet existing customers where they are and they don't seem interested in growing communities around common uses for the assets they sell. 

    Clip Studio Paint built an enormous, loyal audience that basically advertises for them, and they did it by finding Artist Problems and explaining how their software solves them. You do comics? Look how easy it is to set up panels on pages. You do digital painting? Check out all the free brushes you can download. Then they go into specific use cases, showing practical applications for different features. On social they're always giving away graphics tablets and spinning up art contests, which spread like wildfire. They reach out to people at the entry level and encourage them to join the community. 

    Maybe Daz could catch on with influencers who want their own digital avatars and blow up that way, but they could also go a little more down to earth and find a wider variety of people using their stuff who would then be willing to tell their friends, and so on. 

    Yes!

    There is also the tendancy for DAZ to abandon initiatives...  Example: going from DIM, to Connect, to Central. With very little notice or documentation. Instead of improving on a base, a new base is devised and that gets the attention. And usually just inherits the flaws of the previous bases.

    As someone who remembers the days of hundreds of individual install packages that had to be clicked through, at least I can say there was progress at first.

    Post edited by Jason Galterio on
  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 10,304

    margrave said:

    Artini said:

    Sorry, but I do not have a time to read all of the posts in this thread.

    Does it means, that all new Daz products will be only NFT,

    that you buy here as a unique, collectors items and cannot be shown to anybody else?

    No. NFTs do not convey copyright. You basically get a receipt that you purchased an image, which is stored in a decentralized "blockchain". Daz launched a collaboration with the Diigitals to sell NFTs on OpenSea, an online market specifically for selling NFTs.

    Daz employees have told us this has zero effect on the normal operation of the site.

     Thanks and good to know. I do not have such a big amount of money to buy or sell NFTs,

    so I just skip all this hype about NFTs.

    I use Daz items in my spare time and as a hobby, so rendering and showing up my results, just make me happy after work.

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500

    Artini said:

    margrave said:

    Artini said:

    Sorry, but I do not have a time to read all of the posts in this thread.

    Does it means, that all new Daz products will be only NFT,

    that you buy here as a unique, collectors items and cannot be shown to anybody else?

    No. NFTs do not convey copyright. You basically get a receipt that you purchased an image, which is stored in a decentralized "blockchain". Daz launched a collaboration with the Diigitals to sell NFTs on OpenSea, an online market specifically for selling NFTs.

    Daz employees have told us this has zero effect on the normal operation of the site.

     Thanks and good to know. I do not have such a big amount of money to buy or sell NFTs,

    so I just skip all this hype about NFTs.

    I use Daz items in my spare time and as a hobby, so rendering and showing up my results, just make me happy after work.

    Exactly my sentiment (I asked a similar question to yours for the same reason). Except that I am retired so I make myself happy making pictures for more hours a day. 

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,175

    This whole NFT business is a pig in a poke. 

  • fred9803fred9803 Posts: 1,565

    "You basically get a receipt that you purchased an image..." My understanding is that's not the case. You haven't purchased the image in the conventional sense because you have no ownership rights to it. What you've purchased is a token that points to a piece of digital content that acts as a certificate of authenticity for that content. You will have no copy copyright or reproduction rights to it and there's nothing that stops other people reproducing or redistributing it.

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 10,304
    edited March 2021

    AllenArt said:

    This whole NFT business is a pig in a poke. 

    This is a good idea for the render.

    I have checked the explanation on the: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_in_a_poke

     

    Post edited by Artini on
  • FirstBastionFirstBastion Posts: 8,048
    edited March 2021

    Never buy a "cat in a bag" is a similar  common phrase suggesting the same sentiment.macka v vrecu

    Post edited by FirstBastion on
  • Kaleb242Kaleb242 Posts: 344

    The NFT Art Heists May Have Begun...
    https://gizmodo.com/the-nft-art-heists-may-have-begun-1846476077

    Caveat Emptor...

    I wyll neuer bye the pyg in the poke
    Thers many a foule pyg in a feyre cloke.

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,175

    FirstBastion said:

    Never buy a "cat in a bag" is a similar  common phrase suggesting the same sentiment.macka v vrecu

    Yes...lol. And apprently also where the term "let the cat out of the bag" came from ;). My grandmother used to call stuff a pig in a poke all the time (PA Dutch/German lady). 

  • fred9803fred9803 Posts: 1,565

    AllenArt said:

    This whole NFT business is a pig in a poke. 

    It's actually worse than that because you don't actually get to own the pig, or the poke or even the air in the bag. You're just buying the right to say you saw the bag and the pig and they do exist. The purchase is illusory and nothing to do with art, or if you ask me, it's anti-art and not something Daz should be getting involved with.

  • fdsphotofdsphoto Posts: 62
    edited March 2021

    tenor.gif
    220 x 223 - 286K
    Post edited by fdsphoto on
  • ironclawxiiironclawxii Posts: 172
    edited March 2021

    fred9803 said:

    AllenArt said:

    This whole NFT business is a pig in a poke. 

    It's actually worse than that because you don't actually get to own the pig, or the poke or even the air in the bag. You're just buying the right to say you saw the bag and the pig and they do exist. The purchase is illusory and nothing to do with art, or if you ask me, it's anti-art and not something Daz should be getting involved with.

    I agree completely.

    Post edited by ironclawxii on
  • tsaristtsarist Posts: 1,635
    Daz Jack Tomalin said:

    kyoto kid said:

    So what happens if that bubble bursts like it did for cryptocurrencies a few years ago?  Do they write this off as a "business loss"?   "Stunt" seems a pretty appropriate word for what was done in that video.

    The bottom line is I just wish we as digital artists had a way to protect our work.  

    It's not exactly a new concept.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K_Foundation_Burn_a_Million_Quid .. it's art, baby!

    You could argue there are mechanisms to protect digital artwork already.. you could also argue that it's not perfect, but nothing in life is.  I think we've had this conversation previously, too.. but speaking as a digital artist myself, whos seen his work ripped off left and right, it's never put me off putting it out there. 

    It's annoying, sure.. but such is life.

    Ok Jack. I think you lot are setting up an elaborate April Fool's on us. If I'm right, next time I'm home, you buy me a pint!

    I AM interested in NFTs, but this is a little close to April 1 & you lot got me last time, so...
  • margravemargrave Posts: 1,822

    fred9803 said:

    "You basically get a receipt that you purchased an image..." My understanding is that's not the case. You haven't purchased the image in the conventional sense because you have no ownership rights to it. What you've purchased is a token that points to a piece of digital content that acts as a certificate of authenticity for that content. You will have no copy copyright or reproduction rights to it and there's nothing that stops other people reproducing or redistributing it.

    I never said otherwise. The difference between "purchased an image" and "purchased the non-exclusive right to download an image file" is just a matter of semantics.

  • fred9803fred9803 Posts: 1,565
    edited March 2021

    Sorry margrave. I'm a teacher so I'm a bit of a semantics/grammar nazi.

    Post edited by fred9803 on
  • margravemargrave Posts: 1,822
    edited March 2021

    fred9803 said:

    Sorry margrave. I'm a teacher so I'm a bit of a semantics/grammar nazi.

    Fair enough. Unfortunately this thread moves quick, so we gotta be quick and concise or we get left behind.

    Post edited by margrave on
  • fred9803fred9803 Posts: 1,565

    margrave said:

    fred9803 said:

    Sorry margrave. I'm a teacher so I'm a bit of a semantics/grammar nazi.

    Fair enough. Unfortunately this thread moves quick, so we gotta be quick and concise or we get left behind.

    Quickly not quick... use the adverb not the adjective.... see what I mean LOL.

  • GhostofMacbethGhostofMacbeth Posts: 1,734

    Jason Galterio said:There is also the tendancy for DAZ to abandon initiatives...  Example: going from DIM, to Connect, to Central. With very little notice or documentation. Instead of improving on a base, a new base is devised and that gets the attention. And usually just inherits the flaws of the previous bases.

    DIM hasn't gone anywhere. That is all I use. Each of the others was an attempt to make something that was easier and more approachable for new users. But DIM has always been there.

  • Jason GalterioJason Galterio Posts: 2,562

    GhostofMacbeth said:

    Jason Galterio said:There is also the tendancy for DAZ to abandon initiatives...  Example: going from DIM, to Connect, to Central. With very little notice or documentation. Instead of improving on a base, a new base is devised and that gets the attention. And usually just inherits the flaws of the previous bases.

    DIM hasn't gone anywhere. That is all I use. Each of the others was an attempt to make something that was easier and more approachable for new users. But DIM has always been there.

    I know it hasn't gone anywhere, but it certainly hasn't progressed either. There's been no major updates to its functionality, no real user manual. And, instead, the resources were tossed to Central and Connect.

    If they really wanted to introduce DRM, why wasn't it just included into DIM? Instead of creating a brand new method for distribtution? That's what I mean about being abandoned; supported but not improved.

  • Ron KnightsRon Knights Posts: 2,071

    I'm still a bumbling amateur after 20 years plodding along with DAZ products. I probably only have a few pitiful renders in my gallery. I haven't shared many images elsewhere. Frankly, I'd be amazed if someone even bothered to steal my work.

    I looked at the NFT stuff here again. It looks like they're trying to sell us their "imaginary art." I don't have any art on my walls, and surelty won't buy anything that is nothing more than a wispy token.

  • GhostofMacbethGhostofMacbeth Posts: 1,734

    Jason Galterio said:

    GhostofMacbeth said:

    Jason Galterio said:There is also the tendancy for DAZ to abandon initiatives...  Example: going from DIM, to Connect, to Central. With very little notice or documentation. Instead of improving on a base, a new base is devised and that gets the attention. And usually just inherits the flaws of the previous bases.

    DIM hasn't gone anywhere. That is all I use. Each of the others was an attempt to make something that was easier and more approachable for new users. But DIM has always been there.

    I know it hasn't gone anywhere, but it certainly hasn't progressed either. There's been no major updates to its functionality, no real user manual. And, instead, the resources were tossed to Central and Connect.

    If they really wanted to introduce DRM, why wasn't it just included into DIM? Instead of creating a brand new method for distribtution? That's what I mean about being abandoned; supported but not improved.

    Improved can be a double-edged sword in the land of Daz. Not saying it can't use some improvements (I would like the ability to see a thumbnail, for example) but, from past experience, if they were to improve it there would be a huge uproar and the sky would be falling for certain users. Daz has never really be strong on user manuals, that is just a "Install, done" kind of thing so maybe they didn't think there needed to be one.

  • Ch1ggsCh1ggs Posts: 16

    fdsphoto said:


     

    Do you have the NFT for that? If so, I'll buy it from you for $5000 in Bitcoin.

    I am an exquisite art collector and a man of incredible taste.

  • Jason GalterioJason Galterio Posts: 2,562

    GhostofMacbeth said:

    Jason Galterio said:

    GhostofMacbeth said:

    Jason Galterio said:There is also the tendancy for DAZ to abandon initiatives...  Example: going from DIM, to Connect, to Central. With very little notice or documentation. Instead of improving on a base, a new base is devised and that gets the attention. And usually just inherits the flaws of the previous bases.

    DIM hasn't gone anywhere. That is all I use. Each of the others was an attempt to make something that was easier and more approachable for new users. But DIM has always been there.

    I know it hasn't gone anywhere, but it certainly hasn't progressed either. There's been no major updates to its functionality, no real user manual. And, instead, the resources were tossed to Central and Connect.

    If they really wanted to introduce DRM, why wasn't it just included into DIM? Instead of creating a brand new method for distribtution? That's what I mean about being abandoned; supported but not improved.

    Improved can be a double-edged sword in the land of Daz. Not saying it can't use some improvements (I would like the ability to see a thumbnail, for example) but, from past experience, if they were to improve it there would be a huge uproar and the sky would be falling for certain users. Daz has never really be strong on user manuals, that is just a "Install, done" kind of thing so maybe they didn't think there needed to be one.

    Sadly, you are quite correct here. I would love to one day be able to have meaningful search and filtering functions, but I know thats just a pipe dream.

  • fred9803fred9803 Posts: 1,565

    Ron Knights said:

     I don't have any art on my walls, ....

    Neither do I Ron. I was once an avid phtographer but I no longer take a camera on vacation and seldom take photos at all. I realised that in trying to capture the moment on film, it was making miss enjoying that moment or at least downgrading it as a memory. I do love using DS and enjoy the process of putting scenes together, kitbashing, personalising textures etc. The final image comes secondary for me.

This discussion has been closed.