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Default Daz Studio vs Maya head shape

mgr0704mgr0704 Posts: 37
edited September 2020 in Maya Discussion

Anyone notice that what you get head shape wise default out of Daz and bridged to Maya look totally different? Something I'm missing here?

Post edited by Chohole on

Comments

  • AscaniaAscania Posts: 1,855

    It's-a-different-model different or you-didn't-sort-out-the-focal-length different?

  • mgr0704mgr0704 Posts: 37

    No, same model, just it's definitely the shape of the mesh. I will try and give examples, but the difference between Iray and Arnold shaders is deceiving, too. I will try and balance them tomorrow and post.

  • mgr0704mgr0704 Posts: 37

    Here is maybe the best way to illustrate the problem without a render, just a screenshot of the heads, smooth shaded with wire frame. To me the Daz one on screen left has more subtle shaping than how it comes imported over the bridge or am I seeing things?

    headShape.png
    2560 x 1440 - 840K
  • AscaniaAscania Posts: 1,855
    edited September 2020

    Look at the difference in the floor grid behind the character. That's the difference in focal lengths of the camera does it.

     

    Post edited by Ascania on
  • mgr0704mgr0704 Posts: 37

    They are both 80mm focal length lenses. A good focal length for portrait photography. The grid in Maya is just geometry so it will look different because of the width and height divisions.

  • mgr0704mgr0704 Posts: 37

    I wonder if it might have something to do with blend shapes not coming across the bridge correctly?

  • AscaniaAscania Posts: 1,855

    Try it with a different figure. Try it with a static mesh. You will find the same effect.

  • mgr0704mgr0704 Posts: 37

    I have tried it with three other models I bought and see the same thing. 

  • mgr0704mgr0704 Posts: 37

    This doesn't happen to you with Maya?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 107,889

    It looks to me like a shading difference, the wirefames are a very close match.

  • AscaniaAscania Posts: 1,855
    mgr0704 said:

    I have tried it with three other models I bought and see the same thing. 

    So when it does happen with other static models, it can't be the blendshapes can it? I maintain what you see is a difference in the viewport camera.

  • mgr0704mgr0704 Posts: 37

    This doesn't happen to you with Maya?

  • mgr0704mgr0704 Posts: 37

    I have taken off every displacement and bump I can find in Daz and Maya and shaded them lambert. Why is the shape of the mesh not coming over the Maya Bridge? If I dial down the character head and character head details in Daz, it starts to look more like what comes across in Maya. Please only respond if you have Maya and we can explore this further together. Thanks.

    dazMayaTest00.jpg
    960 x 540 - 105K
    dazMayaTest12.jpg
    960 x 540 - 100K
    dazMayaTest17.jpg
    960 x 540 - 101K
    dazMayaTest29.jpg
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  • wherewolfjohnsonwherewolfjohnson Posts: 9

    I could be wrong but aren't those HD details a modified subdivided model in daz? Maybe take your model down to base resolution and they will look the same. Unfortunately Daz2maya crashes on import so I cant test anything.

  • mgr0704mgr0704 Posts: 37

    Hi wherewolfJohnson,

    Thank you for responding.

    New to Daz, not sure what you mean. On the Daz side that is down to base resolution as far as displacement and bump maps being removed are concerned. If there is more to remove as far as "HD details a modified subdivided model in Daz" is concerned, what does it matter? Shouldn't that come across the Maya Bridge? Isn't that the possible problem here? As I stated, if I dial down the character head and character head details in Daz, it starts to look like what I get in Maya over the Bridge. Obviously, there is a displacement happening there that is not coming across. This happens with all models. There is that last 30% that makes it look like a real character as opposed to a mannequin that is not happening over the Bridge.

    Best,

    Mike

  • wherewolfjohnsonwherewolfjohnson Posts: 9

    No problem, hopefully I can help! If you select the body and go to parameters tab and search resolution you can change to base resolution. Also search sub for subdivision level. I guess you could export the high resolution obj into Maya with the daz2maya version of the model and create a displacement map in Maya. I forgot how to do it but I'm sure there are tutorials on youtube.

  • mgr0704mgr0704 Posts: 37

    Yeah, but that's the thing isn't it? Going the obj route I lose the rig --body, facial expressions, etc. So that is not really an option. 

  • drzapdrzap Posts: 795
    edited September 2020

    there are at least 2 work-a-rounds for this problem.  What you are experiencing in Maya is the pure basemesh.  You are not comparing apples to apples.  Unless you dial down your viewport in DS, you won't ever see what the basemesh really looks like.  Anyways, here are the workarounds that I use:

     

    1. Export a hi-poly OBJ (usually subD4) and bake it as a displacement map to your Maya rig.   I bake vector displacements in Zbrush or Mudbox.  I use this method when I want to use the micro details already on the HD Daz asset (HD morphs).
    2.  Export hi-poly OBJ (usually subD2 or 3) and use it as your render mesh.  You can transfer animation by means of UVblendshapes.  I do this when I'm transferring micro-details from other sources or making my own.

    There is also a third possible way:  a piece of software published by a friend of mine called Kinetic Motive has a feature that reportedly automatically bakes the HD morph from Daz into your Maya rig.  I haven't tried this feature to confirm it, but you might want to try it out.  Good luck. 

    /edit/   I neglected to provide you with links for the tools used in these methods.    SeUVblendshapes plugin is essential to my Maya animation pipeline:  https://scottenglert.com/seuvblendshape/

    Kinetic Motive is my pal's facial animation plugin.  Here is his webstore: https://gumroad.com/kineticmotive. ;   He has a website too, but I can't find it at the moment.
    And these are some renders of Daz figures using this method in Maya: 

     

    https://www.deviantart.com/bad-uncle for more images (figures are unclothed)

    I used method #2 in the above examples.  If you have any questions about how to employ some of these techniques, feel free to hit me up on Skype.

    Post edited by drzap on
  • mgr0704mgr0704 Posts: 37

    Hi drzap,

    Thanks for the response. First, thank you for confirming that I am not crazy and the Daz to Maya Bridge is not bringing all the mesh detail across which in the end is the issue, isn't it? The workarounds are all fine and good, and I will explore them, but should not be necessary to begin with. Claiming a Daz character is compatible with the Daz to Maya Bridge is a bit deceiving without some disclaimers or without fixing the problem. I know there will be a difference in the look of the face of a character as far as Iray vs Arnold goes, but if I can't even start with the same detail in the mesh on the Maya side, that's disappointing.

  • AsariAsari Posts: 703
    drzap said:

    there are at least 2 work-a-rounds for this problem.  What you are experiencing in Maya is the pure basemesh.  You are not comparing apples to apples.  Unless you dial down your viewport in DS, you won't ever see what the basemesh really looks like.  Anyways, here are the workarounds that I use:

     

    1. Export a hi-poly OBJ (usually subD4) and bake it as a displacement map to your Maya rig.   I bake vector displacements in Zbrush or Mudbox.  I use this method when I want to use the micro details already on the HD Daz asset (HD morphs).
    2.  Export hi-poly OBJ (usually subD2 or 3) and use it as your render mesh.  You can transfer animation by means of UVblendshapes.  I do this when I'm transferring micro-details from other sources or making my own.

    There is also a third possible way:  a piece of software published by a friend of mine called Kinetic Motive has a feature that reportedly automatically bakes the HD morph from Daz into your Maya rig.  I haven't tried this feature to confirm it, but you might want to try it out.  Good luck. 

    /edit/   I neglected to provide you with links for the tools used in these methods.    SeUVblendshapes plugin is essential to my Maya animation pipeline:  https://scottenglert.com/seuvblendshape/

    Kinetic Motive is my pal's facial animation plugin.  Here is his webstore: https://gumroad.com/kineticmotive. ;   He has a website too, but I can't find it at the moment.
    And these are some renders of Daz figures using this method in Maya: 

     

    https://www.deviantart.com/bad-uncle for more images (figures are unclothed)

    I used method #2 in the above examples.  If you have any questions about how to employ some of these techniques, feel free to hit me up on Skype.

    Hey drzap,

    I have seen Kinetic Motive's video on youtube regarding subdivision morphs a long time ago and could never figure out which product is the right product on his gum road.

    This is the video I'm thinking of:

    I usually use the displacement workflow but I would prefer to start from a subdiv1 mesh in some cases. You also mentioned another workflow that I recently experimented with:

    1. Import G8 figure

    2. Subdivide mesh

    3. Import higher res mesh as obj

    4. Setup blendshape.

    This works technically but I noticed the blendshape is losing a lot of details. Given that Maya blendshape are not made to transfer details at higher mesh density levels I guess this is not an error of Maya but simply blendshapes are not made for this.

    I have purchased the seUVBlendshape plugin but haven't played with it much yet. From the demo video it seems this is more meant to transfer deformations from a low poly mesh to a high poly mesh and not transfer details between 2 high poly meshes.

    Ever since I saw Kinetic Motive's demo on their product I wanted to test this but what is the product and where can I buy it? Is this integrated into one if the face rig products?

  • duckbombduckbomb Posts: 585
    edited August 2021

    Asari said:

    drzap said:

    there are at least 2 work-a-rounds for this problem.  What you are experiencing in Maya is the pure basemesh.  You are not comparing apples to apples.  Unless you dial down your viewport in DS, you won't ever see what the basemesh really looks like.  Anyways, here are the workarounds that I use:

     

    1. Export a hi-poly OBJ (usually subD4) and bake it as a displacement map to your Maya rig.   I bake vector displacements in Zbrush or Mudbox.  I use this method when I want to use the micro details already on the HD Daz asset (HD morphs).
    2.  Export hi-poly OBJ (usually subD2 or 3) and use it as your render mesh.  You can transfer animation by means of UVblendshapes.  I do this when I'm transferring micro-details from other sources or making my own.

    There is also a third possible way:  a piece of software published by a friend of mine called Kinetic Motive has a feature that reportedly automatically bakes the HD morph from Daz into your Maya rig.  I haven't tried this feature to confirm it, but you might want to try it out.  Good luck. 

    /edit/   I neglected to provide you with links for the tools used in these methods.    SeUVblendshapes plugin is essential to my Maya animation pipeline:  https://scottenglert.com/seuvblendshape/

    Kinetic Motive is my pal's facial animation plugin.  Here is his webstore: https://gumroad.com/kineticmotive. ;   He has a website too, but I can't find it at the moment.
    And these are some renders of Daz figures using this method in Maya: 

     

    https://www.deviantart.com/bad-uncle for more images (figures are unclothed)

    I used method #2 in the above examples.  If you have any questions about how to employ some of these techniques, feel free to hit me up on Skype.

    Hey drzap,

     

    I have seen Kinetic Motive's video on youtube regarding subdivision morphs a long time ago and could never figure out which product is the right product on his gum road.

     

    This is the video I'm thinking of:

     

     

    I usually use the displacement workflow but I would prefer to start from a subdiv1 mesh in some cases. You also mentioned another workflow that I recently experimented with:

     

    1. Import G8 figure

     

    2. Subdivide mesh

     

    3. Import higher res mesh as obj

     

    4. Setup blendshape.

     

    This works technically but I noticed the blendshape is losing a lot of details. Given that Maya blendshape are not made to transfer details at higher mesh density levels I guess this is not an error of Maya but simply blendshapes are not made for this.

     

    I have purchased the seUVBlendshape plugin but haven't played with it much yet. From the demo video it seems this is more meant to transfer deformations from a low poly mesh to a high poly mesh and not transfer details between 2 high poly meshes.

     

    Ever since I saw Kinetic Motive's demo on their product I wanted to test this but what is the product and where can I buy it? Is this integrated into one if the face rig products?

    I do have the Kinetic Motive plugin, and I think it works great!  The mesh ends up being really dense and is basically un-poseable once it has gone through the subdivisions, however.  The facial rig and everything works exactly as intended and described, but I think displacement maps are the way to go when dealing with detail because even with my beefy system it really can't handle the high resolution mesh when it comes to animating.

    Post edited by duckbomb on
  • duckbombduckbomb Posts: 585

    OH!  Also, to answer your question... I just purchased that DAZ 3D ultimate bundle thing, and it came as part of that.  My guess is yes, anything that includes the Dynamic Studio plugin will have this feature.

  • AsariAsari Posts: 703
    duckbomb said:

    Asari said:

    drzap said:

    there are at least 2 work-a-rounds for this problem.  What you are experiencing in Maya is the pure basemesh.  You are not comparing apples to apples.  Unless you dial down your viewport in DS, you won't ever see what the basemesh really looks like.  Anyways, here are the workarounds that I use:

     

    1. Export a hi-poly OBJ (usually subD4) and bake it as a displacement map to your Maya rig.   I bake vector displacements in Zbrush or Mudbox.  I use this method when I want to use the micro details already on the HD Daz asset (HD morphs).
    2.  Export hi-poly OBJ (usually subD2 or 3) and use it as your render mesh.  You can transfer animation by means of UVblendshapes.  I do this when I'm transferring micro-details from other sources or making my own.

    There is also a third possible way:  a piece of software published by a friend of mine called Kinetic Motive has a feature that reportedly automatically bakes the HD morph from Daz into your Maya rig.  I haven't tried this feature to confirm it, but you might want to try it out.  Good luck. 

    /edit/   I neglected to provide you with links for the tools used in these methods.    SeUVblendshapes plugin is essential to my Maya animation pipeline:  https://scottenglert.com/seuvblendshape/

    Kinetic Motive is my pal's facial animation plugin.  Here is his webstore: https://gumroad.com/kineticmotive. ;   He has a website too, but I can't find it at the moment.
    And these are some renders of Daz figures using this method in Maya: 

     

    https://www.deviantart.com/bad-uncle for more images (figures are unclothed)

    I used method #2 in the above examples.  If you have any questions about how to employ some of these techniques, feel free to hit me up on Skype.

    Hey drzap,

     

    I have seen Kinetic Motive's video on youtube regarding subdivision morphs a long time ago and could never figure out which product is the right product on his gum road.

     

    This is the video I'm thinking of:

     

     

    I usually use the displacement workflow but I would prefer to start from a subdiv1 mesh in some cases. You also mentioned another workflow that I recently experimented with:

     

    1. Import G8 figure

     

    2. Subdivide mesh

     

    3. Import higher res mesh as obj

     

    4. Setup blendshape.

     

    This works technically but I noticed the blendshape is losing a lot of details. Given that Maya blendshape are not made to transfer details at higher mesh density levels I guess this is not an error of Maya but simply blendshapes are not made for this.

     

    I have purchased the seUVBlendshape plugin but haven't played with it much yet. From the demo video it seems this is more meant to transfer deformations from a low poly mesh to a high poly mesh and not transfer details between 2 high poly meshes.

     

    Ever since I saw Kinetic Motive's demo on their product I wanted to test this but what is the product and where can I buy it? Is this integrated into one if the face rig products?

    I do have the Kinetic Motive plugin, and I think it works great!  The mesh ends up being really dense and is basically un-poseable once it has gone through the subdivisions, however.  The facial rig and everything works exactly as intended and described, but I think displacement maps are the way to go when dealing with detail because even with my beefy system it really can't handle the high resolution mesh when it comes to animating.

    Thx a ton for your help! I felt really lost because it wasn't mentioned anywhere in the documentation. I emailed the creator and didn't receive a reply.

    Yes I wouldn't go beyond subdiv1 for a rigged mesh, but going from a smoothed mesh at base resolution wont get you far with displacement maps, because a lot of details wont actually show up. It's fairly ok if you don't do close ups, so if I want to do a cloth simulation or focus on hair movement where the face of the character isn't the focus the base mesh is ok. But for close-ups ... yeah having the face in subdiv1 and start from there helps tremendously.

    Currently I'm going with the seUVblendshape workflow and it works to be honest. True the scene is a bit heavier because I have 2 meshes in the scene - one rigged mesh as a driver and the actual mesh which is rendered but it's still tolerable.

  • AsariAsari Posts: 703
    edited April 2022
    duckbomb said:

    OH!  Also, to answer your question... I just purchased that DAZ 3D ultimate bundle thing, and it came as part of that.  My guess is yes, anything that includes the Dynamic Studio plugin will have this feature.

    Just wanted to give an update on this. I bought the Facial Rig for Genesis 8 Male package because currently I have no other uses for other figures. The Dynamic Studio plugin does not include a Subdivision System option in the drop-down menu. I don't know which other product includes it because there is virtually no description in the gumroad shop. Since no refunds and the DAZ ultimate bundle costs usd 299 I wasnt willing to bet on this.

    Post edited by Asari on
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