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Dog Visemes

laststand6522732laststand6522732 Posts: 866
in The Commons

Does the DAZ Dog 8 have visemes?

Comments

  • SimonJMSimonJM Posts: 6,067

    Expressions (Angray HD,Happy HD, Panting, and Yawning) and Muzzle (Frown, Mouth Howl, Mouth Open Wide, Smile, Snarl, Snarl Left, Snarl Right. Tongue Left-Right, and Tongue Out) from what I can see (as well as Brow, Ears and Eyes related poses

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 40,117

    so the dog 8 cannot talk

    ...thats ...ruff cheeky

  • laststand6522732laststand6522732 Posts: 866

    Too bad.

    I want one of every animal that has visemes. My list may be wrong or incomplete. Please help me with it if you can.

    • Mil Cat
    • House Cat
    • Mil Dog
    • Pig
    • Piglet
    • Horse?

    I have it in mind to edit the Anilip 2 config file to recognize every existing talking animal.

  • CybersoxCybersox Posts: 9,282
    his x said:

    Does the DAZ Dog 8 have visemes?

    If you think about the musculature involved, in the real world, a dog is physically incapable of making most of the standard frictive and plosive visemes due to the way it's lips are built and attatched to the skull and jaw, so when you see dogs' mouths animated to talk in baked Bean commercials and the like, the animators are completely cheating and joining the left and right cleft halves into a false pseudo front lip.  If I recall corectly, Mimic just moved the jaw up and down for most non-humanoid animals.    

  • laststand6522732laststand6522732 Posts: 866
    edited February 2020
    Cybersox said:
    his x said:

    Does the DAZ Dog 8 have visemes?

    If you think about the musculature involved, in the real world, a dog is physically incapable of making most of the standard frictive and plosive visemes due to the way it's lips are built and attatched to the skull and jaw, so when you see dogs' mouths animated to talk in baked Bean commercials and the like, the animators are completely cheating and joining the left and right cleft halves into a false pseudo front lip.  If I recall corectly, Mimic just moved the jaw up and down for most non-humanoid animals.    

    This is not a problem. The Mil Dog has a full set of visemes. I'll be able to edit the Anilip 2 config file to access them. I'll post a clip.

    The actual problem is, all the TEXTURES for the Mil Dog, with the exception of the Doberman, have disappeared.

    Anybody know where to find these?

     

    Post edited by laststand6522732 on
  • laststand6522732laststand6522732 Posts: 866

    OK All, here's a stupid question.

    A viseme is just a morph, right? and we can create morphs? Would it be possible to create a set of viseme morphs and install them on a character like any other morph package?

  • CybersoxCybersox Posts: 9,282
    edited February 2020
    his x said:
    Cybersox said:
    his x said:

    Does the DAZ Dog 8 have visemes?

    If you think about the musculature involved, in the real world, a dog is physically incapable of making most of the standard frictive and plosive visemes due to the way it's lips are built and attatched to the skull and jaw, so when you see dogs' mouths animated to talk in baked Bean commercials and the like, the animators are completely cheating and joining the left and right cleft halves into a false pseudo front lip.  If I recall corectly, Mimic just moved the jaw up and down for most non-humanoid animals.    

    This is not a problem. The Mil Dog has a full set of visemes. I'll be able to edit the Anilip 2 config file to access them. I'll post a clip.

    The actual problem is, all the TEXTURES for the Mil Dog, with the exception of the Doberman, have disappeared.

    Anybody know where to find these?

     

    You mean besides the 11 that come in the starter pack? 

    edit - Looking at an old thread at Hivewire, it sounds like most of the ones that were in the DAZ store were by Lyra Madril, and it doesn't look like she ever put them up for sale anyplace else when she left. 

    Post edited by Cybersox on
  • laststand6522732laststand6522732 Posts: 866
    Cybersox said:
    his x said:
    Cybersox said:
    his x said:

    Does the DAZ Dog 8 have visemes?

    If you think about the musculature involved, in the real world, a dog is physically incapable of making most of the standard frictive and plosive visemes due to the way it's lips are built and attatched to the skull and jaw, so when you see dogs' mouths animated to talk in baked Bean commercials and the like, the animators are completely cheating and joining the left and right cleft halves into a false pseudo front lip.  If I recall corectly, Mimic just moved the jaw up and down for most non-humanoid animals.    

    This is not a problem. The Mil Dog has a full set of visemes. I'll be able to edit the Anilip 2 config file to access them. I'll post a clip.

    The actual problem is, all the TEXTURES for the Mil Dog, with the exception of the Doberman, have disappeared.

    Anybody know where to find these?

     

    You mean besides the 11 that come in the starter pack? 

    edit - Looking at an old thread at Hivewire, it sounds like most of the ones that were in the DAZ store were by Lyra Madril, and it doesn't look like she ever put them up for sale anyplace else when she left. 

    Ah, the 11 in the Starter Pack. The Starter Pack may have changed a bit since you saw it last. There's now a tiny little disclaimer along the bottom edge of the product page graphic that reads "Some textures shown here not included." It cost me $30 to read that. Possibly this happened recently, I don't know. Read 'some' as, all except the one stuck on the dog.

    I did track this to Lyra Madril at HW, but the Forum SW was behaving a bit cranky and would not let me register.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 108,138
    his x said:

    OK All, here's a stupid question.

    A viseme is just a morph, right? and we can create morphs? Would it be possible to create a set of viseme morphs and install them on a character like any other morph package?

    Yes

  • laststand6522732laststand6522732 Posts: 866
    Richard Haseltine said:
    his x said:

    OK All, here's a stupid question.

    A viseme is just a morph, right? and we can create morphs? Would it be possible to create a set of viseme morphs and install them on a character like any other morph package?

    Yes

    Thank you Richard. I've wondered about this for quite a while. I am encouraged. When I get some time I'm going to take a shot at it.

  • CybersoxCybersox Posts: 9,282
    edited February 2020
    his x said:
    Cybersox said:
    his x said:
    Cybersox said:
    his x said:

    Does the DAZ Dog 8 have visemes?

    If you think about the musculature involved, in the real world, a dog is physically incapable of making most of the standard frictive and plosive visemes due to the way it's lips are built and attatched to the skull and jaw, so when you see dogs' mouths animated to talk in baked Bean commercials and the like, the animators are completely cheating and joining the left and right cleft halves into a false pseudo front lip.  If I recall corectly, Mimic just moved the jaw up and down for most non-humanoid animals.    

    This is not a problem. The Mil Dog has a full set of visemes. I'll be able to edit the Anilip 2 config file to access them. I'll post a clip.

    The actual problem is, all the TEXTURES for the Mil Dog, with the exception of the Doberman, have disappeared.

    Anybody know where to find these?

     

    You mean besides the 11 that come in the starter pack? 

    edit - Looking at an old thread at Hivewire, it sounds like most of the ones that were in the DAZ store were by Lyra Madril, and it doesn't look like she ever put them up for sale anyplace else when she left. 

    Ah, the 11 in the Starter Pack. The Starter Pack may have changed a bit since you saw it last. There's now a tiny little disclaimer along the bottom edge of the product page graphic that reads "Some textures shown here not included." It cost me $30 to read that. Possibly this happened recently, I don't know. Read 'some' as, all except the one stuck on the dog.

    I did track this to Lyra Madril at HW, but the Forum SW was behaving a bit cranky and would not let me register.

    Hmm.  I see that disclaimer but the text says very clearly... edit - oh, they dropped the textures part. 

    • Boxer
    • Bull Terrier
    • German Shepherd
    • Great Dane
    • Hound
    • Mastiff
    • Miniature Pinscher
    • Parson Russell Terrier
    • Rottweiler
    • American Staffordshire Terrier
    • Wolf

    That's really messed up.  I'll have to check to see what's in my account as they can't pull them retroactively and I bought it in 2007.

    edited

     

    Post edited by Cybersox on
  • laststand6522732laststand6522732 Posts: 866
    edited February 2020
    Cybersox said:
    his x said:
    Cybersox said:
    his x said:
    Cybersox said:
    his x said:

    Does the DAZ Dog 8 have visemes?

    If you think about the musculature involved, in the real world, a dog is physically incapable of making most of the standard frictive and plosive visemes due to the way it's lips are built and attatched to the skull and jaw, so when you see dogs' mouths animated to talk in baked Bean commercials and the like, the animators are completely cheating and joining the left and right cleft halves into a false pseudo front lip.  If I recall corectly, Mimic just moved the jaw up and down for most non-humanoid animals.    

    This is not a problem. The Mil Dog has a full set of visemes. I'll be able to edit the Anilip 2 config file to access them. I'll post a clip.

    The actual problem is, all the TEXTURES for the Mil Dog, with the exception of the Doberman, have disappeared.

    Anybody know where to find these?

     

    You mean besides the 11 that come in the starter pack? 

    edit - Looking at an old thread at Hivewire, it sounds like most of the ones that were in the DAZ store were by Lyra Madril, and it doesn't look like she ever put them up for sale anyplace else when she left. 

    Ah, the 11 in the Starter Pack. The Starter Pack may have changed a bit since you saw it last. There's now a tiny little disclaimer along the bottom edge of the product page graphic that reads "Some textures shown here not included." It cost me $30 to read that. Possibly this happened recently, I don't know. Read 'some' as, all except the one stuck on the dog.

    I did track this to Lyra Madril at HW, but the Forum SW was behaving a bit cranky and would not let me register.

    Hmm.  I see that disclaimer but the text says very clearly... edit - oh, they dropped the textures part. 

    • Boxer
    • Bull Terrier
    • German Shepherd
    • Great Dane
    • Hound
    • Mastiff
    • Miniature Pinscher
    • Parson Russell Terrier
    • Rottweiler
    • American Staffordshire Terrier
    • Wolf

    That's really messed up.  I'll have to check to see what's in my account as they can't pull them retroactively and I bought it in 2007.

    edited

     

    And here I was picturing the Shepherd speaking with a German accent. ;-)

    Post edited by laststand6522732 on
  • GordigGordig Posts: 10,601

    I thought visemes were poses, not morphs. 

  • laststand6522732laststand6522732 Posts: 866
    Gordig said:

    I thought visemes were poses, not morphs. 

    I don't know, myself. I think of them as morphs because I see them show up in the Parameters morph list. I'm not going to guess before I look into it.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 40,117

    you can edit the default DMC file in notepad to create a configuration file for Dog 8

    just substitute the morphs you want for the visemes

    probably mostly mouth open and closed

     

  • laststand6522732laststand6522732 Posts: 866
    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    you can edit the default DMC file in notepad to create a configuration file for Dog 8

    just substitute the morphs you want for the visemes

    probably mostly mouth open and closed

     

    Yeah... I know... I'm hoping to be a bit more articulate than that. For example, the letter O. O requires that the mouth be narrowed left to right. If you happen to have a face morph that says 'mouth narrow' you're fine. If not, it's not as good. If the critter has a beak that's one thing (cluck, quack). But if the mouth is flesh, closeups are impacted. I wish the devs had just left the visemes in there, they weren't hurting anything.

  • Doc AcmeDoc Acme Posts: 1,153

    Am I sensing a Scooby-Doo in the works?

     

  • laststand6522732laststand6522732 Posts: 866
    edited February 2020
    Doc Acme said:

    Am I sensing a Scooby-Doo in the works?

     

    With only a Doberman to work with it will be Baron Von Fido, more likely.

    I want to do some little comedy skits but I'm not the most diplomatic man in the world. It dawned on me that in animation, animals can often get away with saying things that people cannot. It was an epiphany. Now I'm trying to gather together all the talking critters I can find, especially since they seem to be becoming extinct. I am thinking of a 50s sitcom as a model. I feel optimistic about it. I've got Anilip 2. I've got a few critters. Next come voiceovers.

     

    Post edited by laststand6522732 on
  • Seven193Seven193 Posts: 1,144
    Gordig said:

    I thought visemes were poses, not morphs. 

    I think visemes are expressions called eCTRLs. If you click Tools -> Joint Editor, the face has a lot of bones around the mouth and lips. So, it's possible they manipulate these mouth bones only, and not directly any vertices. Just my guess.
  • laststand6522732laststand6522732 Posts: 866
    edited February 2020

    Say... I'm wondering.

    I just happened to glance at the Anilip 2 product page, and I noticed that it refers to a list of 11 visemes titled 'Dog 8.' ??

    Perhaps Dog 8 actually DOES have visemes, but they just weren't mentioned on the Dog 8 product page.

    I'd hate to have to buy the dog just to find out for sure. Do you have Dog 8? Have you actually looked in the Parameters list for visemes? I'm curious now.

    ...........................................................

    EDIT

    I confirm that the Dog 8 character does indeed have visemes. Anilip 2 recognizes it immediately. Amen.

    Post edited by laststand6522732 on
  • laststand6522732laststand6522732 Posts: 866
    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    you can edit the default DMC file in notepad to create a configuration file for Dog 8

    just substitute the morphs you want for the visemes

    probably mostly mouth open and closed

     

    I'm bombing out on this. The path to a given viseme has been changed, and I haven't figured out how to edit the path in the DMC file.

    This is an Anilip 2 transcription. I want to compare it to a Mimic transcription. That's why I want to do this.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 40,117
    his x said:
    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    you can edit the default DMC file in notepad to create a configuration file for Dog 8

    just substitute the morphs you want for the visemes

    probably mostly mouth open and closed

     

    I'm bombing out on this. The path to a given viseme has been changed, and I haven't figured out how to edit the path in the DMC file.

    This is an Anilip 2 transcription. I want to compare it to a Mimic transcription. That's why I want to do this.

    well I gave it a go in Mimic pro which is no longer available  on a cr2 export and couldn't get it to talk either

    I think it's to do with the ctrl morphs not being on the head unlike legacy figures

    notepad should work though but I haven't looked yet, looking at the genesis 3&8 dmc files might be more helpful 

  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675

    i thought it was face rigged?

  • laststand6522732laststand6522732 Posts: 866
    edited February 2020
    WendyLuvsCatz said:
    his x said:
    WendyLuvsCatz said:

    you can edit the default DMC file in notepad to create a configuration file for Dog 8

    just substitute the morphs you want for the visemes

    probably mostly mouth open and closed

     

    I'm bombing out on this. The path to a given viseme has been changed, and I haven't figured out how to edit the path in the DMC file.

    This is an Anilip 2 transcription. I want to compare it to a Mimic transcription. That's why I want to do this.

    well I gave it a go in Mimic pro which is no longer available  on a cr2 export and couldn't get it to talk either

    I think it's to do with the ctrl morphs not being on the head unlike legacy figures

    notepad should work though but I haven't looked yet, looking at the genesis 3&8 dmc files might be more helpful 

    Notepad++ can open multiple files, has a good search and replace, and the price is right.

    I used the Mimic that comes with DAZ 32 bit. It works fine so long as you have the config file.

    Yes, the location of the morphs is what it's all about. The log file is clear on this. Only the visemes are a problem. Other items attached to the head - ears, nose, muzzle - they all wiggle. The old stuff had the visemes down on the Head. The new critters have them up at the top. This was apparent when I learned to edit the Anilip 2 config file recently. I added the MilCat to it. If the path is right, you're in.

    The Anilip config file is much easier to edit, as it doesn't deal with every single element in the body. Why the DMC file has to be 5500 lines long is beyond me. I was taught when I was younger; When a thing is done right, it looks simple.

    I expect I'll work this out. At the moment I'm up a tree.

    Meow...

    Post edited by laststand6522732 on
  • laststand6522732laststand6522732 Posts: 866
    Mystarra said:

    i thought it was face rigged?

    I'm not sure what's moving behind the curtain, but I can say that DAZ has the only talking critters around.

  • laststand6522732laststand6522732 Posts: 866

    I have failed in editing the Dog8 DMC file. 'head:1' didn't work as a path. Neither did blank, body, or anything else I could put in there. Since the possibilities are infinite, I won't live long enough to guess.

    Other facial features located on 'head' worked fine in Mimic. The Idle behavior worked well. Only the visemes were unreachable.

     

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