Best laptop deals for Daz iray rendering + 3delight under $2000?
Chakradude
Posts: 285
I am finally upgrading my laptop. Not getting a tower even thought you can get so much more power etc... I have a firm upper limit of $2000
I am looking at this : Prostar NH70RDQ 17.3 Inches FHD 144Hz, Intel i7-9750H, NVIDIA RTX 2060, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 500GB NVMe SSD, 2TB SSHD, Windows 10 Home, Slim Bezel Gaming Laptop, 1-Year Warranty
suprised to find it for only $1500!
Anybody have experience with prostar? I dont have brand preference myself but I am working on several graphic comic books and I need a good solid render machine. primarily daz+ photoshop and I may dabble in a bit of modeling. I think I can live within the 6gb vram space for scene size from the rtx 2060 since I am comfortable rendering in layers an compositing in photoshop. Any advantage from the turing technology on the card for rendering or is that mainly for the realtime screen update?
edit: I have not done much I ray rendering to speak of but it seems to be the direction things are going. I love 3delight and Think the 6 core would certainly improve the renderspeed from my single core i5 Dell Inspiron so hopefully this would work well for either render engine.
If you see a serious hole in this configuation please let me know what it might be.
Your feedback is appreciated!
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Comments
You can get a machine with a RTX-1070 for roughly the same price, which has the same number of CUDA cores but 8GB of memory compared to the 2060's 6GB, which will help with larger scenes. I've even seen a few with 2070's in that price range. I'm not familiar with ProStar but the specs look pretty good for a laptop, though I don't see anything about additional coooling so I'd worry about overheating during long renders.
Good point about the cooling, I will have to check into that. Do you recall where you saw the deals you mentioned?
I just upgraded from my old machine which was a Prostar. I used it heavily for over 3.5 years, and it's still functioning perfectly physically (needs a windows re-install at some point, but still works very well). The computers built by Prostar are Clevo computers (many custom builders use Clevos), and Clevo is the company that actually makes a lot of the brand name laptops. I've had two laptops from Prostar (one at work, and the last one was my personal computer) and both have been great machines. The main reason I got a new laptop was to get 128Gb of RAM, my old laptop was maxed at 32Gb (got an MSI, Prostar only offered 64Gb). From the pictures, it looks like it should have good cooling (large air intake area underneath with decent exhaust vents). This is from the detailed info on the page you linked:
"Improved Cooling Design
Always cool under pressure. NH70RDQ rapidly sheds heat and maintains optimal performance. Increased air vents drive heat away from the CPU and GPU faster, and a new cooling fan design uses more blades to dramatically increase the air flow volume."
It's a thin case, which can have cooling issues, but the 2060 and the i7-9750H should be fairly easy to cool. I would guess that it will cool well given what I see, and the "improved cooling design". You might want to use a laptop cooler when rendering, that would help ensure and adequate air supply to the bottom vents.
CUDA should not be compared across microarchitecture generations. Nvidia improves CUDA performance every time.
This can be had for $1600 with a 2070 (but the SSD is tiny so you'd need to spend some money on external storage)
https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-GeForce-i7-8750H-Windows-GL504GW-DS74/dp/B07MDDNCH2/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=RTX+2070+Laptop&qid=1576809675&sr=8-3
The OP should make sure they get a laptop cooler (and a really good one) if they plan on rendering on the laptop. Can make all the difference.
Laurie
Thanks for the feedback all. I think I am going for it or a close version of it; the reviews are great. Its hopeful that there is a good cooling system but I am deffinately getting a cooling pad for the many renders I have planned! all insights much appreciated...
You can compare GPUs on the benchmark in my sig. However, keep in mind that laptop variants of the same GPU are restricted a bit from the desktop versions. There is a laptop with a 2070 in there.
The 2060 is going to destroy a 1070 in rendering speed, but that 6 vs 8 GB can make a big difference, too. You might want to look out for a 2060 Super if they use them in laptops, as the Super version packs 8 GB of VRAM, and it is faster than the original 2070. So I would look for a 2060 Super and above to get that 8GB. I would not go with any 1000 series at this point because they lack the ray tracing cores. They do make a difference. The desktop 2060 Super is capable of matching 1080ti performance or better depending on your scene. There is no laptop that even offers a 1080ti. But that should give you an idea of what the RTX line can do when one of the lowest RTX cards can beat the best Pascal had to offer.
Well, that is some pretty in depth research! I am now looking at this prostar with the RTX 2070. its true I don't want to sell myself short on vram memory for scene size and I can squeek in under $2000 and still get a 2gig drive for the library of daz models I have been amassing since 2004!
https://www.amazon.com/Prostar-P970RF-i7-9750H-2666Mhz-Warranty/dp/B07SKCJW5X/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8#HLCXComparisonWidget_feature_div
I have a 2070 in my laptop, and am quite happy with it (the laptop in the performance thread mentioned by Outrider). It's slightly slower the some of the desktops listed (in the 10-15 sec. range IIRC), but much faster than my old GTX 970m. If you can do it, I'd go for the 2070. Prostar is a small custom builder in the LA area, and all contact I've had with them has been great (real people, that actually work there). It was the first place I looked for my new laptop, but they didn't have anything with 128Gb ram. Ended up going with Xotic PC. They're in Lincoln Nebraska, and my experience with them was equally good (got an MSI GT76 Titan), future purchases will no doubt either be from Prostar or Xotic.
So, in your title you mentioned Iray and 3Delight...
How about getting something form the Dell/outlet site.
This one "Alienware Area 51m" is $2059 and is a complete beast with a RTX 2070, desktop Core i7 (8 core) and a mean cooling setup.
17" IPS 1080p
Core i7-9700K (8 Core, 3.6GHz base and 4.9GHz turbo)
Geforce RTX 2070 8GB
16GB (2x8GB) 2666MHz DDR4
256GB PCIe M.2 NVMe Solid State Drive
1TB Hybrid Drive (5400 RPM) with 8 GB Solid State for fast access on comminly used files.
Here's a quote from Dell's info about this model:
UNPRECEDENTED UPGRADEABILITY
Gamers have made it clear that they’ve noticed a lack of CPU and GPU upgradability in gaming laptops.
The Area-51m was engineered with this in mind, finally allowing gamers to harness power comparable to even the highest-performance desktop, and taking advantage of latest technologies from NVIDIA® such as ray tracing, DLSS, and AI enhanced graphics.
CPU upgrades can be done using standard desktop-class processors, while GPU upgrades can be done with GPU upgrade kits available on Dell.com or with the Alienware Graphics Amplifier.
Keep in mind that the Area 51m weighs 8.5 pounds, while the Prostar weights 5.5 pounds. The 51m also has not one, but TWO power bricks. Yes, it actually has two power bricks! There are two power connectors on the laptop. One is 180 W, the other is 240 W. And what does having that many Watts mean? It means heat. Lots of heat. This is not a laptop you want to ever use on your actual lap.
So while it is a laptop, considering its weight and two power bricks, it is not the most mobile of laptops you are going to find. But you are getting a desktop CPU and a desktop GPU. Actually, looking these over, I am not certain the CPU is that big a deal. The 9700k has 8 cores, but no hyper threading, so only 8 threads. The 9750h has 6 cores, but 12 threads. So how that would shake down for 3DL I do not know, I'm sure the 9700 would win mainly because of its desktop clockspeeds, but by how much is the question. The Prostar uses a 2070 Max-Q version, which is clocked lower but otherwise exactly the same as the desktop 2070. So it is easier to gauge the difference between the Max-Q and the regular 2070. While the 51m does not use the Max-Q 2070, it is still not quite a full desktop 2070 either, check the video below.
Additionally, the 51m has only a 1080p panel at 60 hz, which seems just odd with all that power inside the case. The Prostar panel is also only 1080p, but it is 144 hz. If you do not play any games, then this is a non issue. But if you do play games, having a 144 hz display is wonderful, I have a 1440p 144 hz display myself, and I never want to go back! It is like experiencing a local and real seafood place after going to Long John Silver's. You will never go back to LJS again.
The 51m comes with 16GB RAM, vs the 32 of the Prostar, so you would likely want to get more RAM for the 51m if you want to make some larger scenes. I do like the upgrade factor of the 51m, that has always been a massive problem with laptops. However, keep in mind that since it is Intel, there wont be many upgrades for the CPU given how Intel builds a new socket every year or so. The GPU is upgradeable, but you need to go through Alienware for it. While we can assume Alienware will make new GPUs available in the future, we cannot be totally certain on that. All we have is their promise that they will.
Anyway, here is a LTT video review of the 51m, however this version has the 2080 in it, so keep that in mind. Also the review unit has a 144 hz panel. But the rest of the points raised are basically the same.
Personally I'd never ever get a laptop for rendering. In that price range you can get a 2070 desktop.
Or frankly build a solid desktop and buy two used 1080 Tis off Ebay and run them both at once...
Check out the Maingear Element: https://maingear.com/element/ ; Yes, its a gaming rig but the crossover between gaming and rendering is pretty small. The price looks good and the new Maingear laptops have been getting pretty good reviews. The screen is slightly smaller but the specs certainly look good. Worth a look.
You should buy the cheapest laptop with external video card support and get a nice desktop video card (connected via thunderbolt or pcie ribbon cable) to do your renders. Internal renders with a laptop will shorten the life of your laptop so the cheapest lappy is best that way!!! Consequently, when not if the cheap lappy dies you can get another one! Otherwise buy a desktop for renders and a cheap laptop for running around. I only use OpengGL renders on my laptop and AMD Ryzen with builtin GPU which does this flawlessly.
I have a 2070 in my laptop, and am quite happy with it (the laptop in the performance thread mentioned by Outrider). It's slightly slower the some of the desktops listed (in the 10-15 sec. range IIRC), but much faster than my old GTX 970m. If you can do it, I'd go for the 2070. Prostar is a small custom builder in the LA area, and all contact I've had with them has been great (real people, that actually work there). It was the first place I looked for my new laptop, but they didn't have anything with 128Gb ram. Ended up going with Xotic PC. They're in Lincoln Nebraska, and my experience with them was equally good (got a MSI GT76 Titan), future purchases will no doubt either be from Prostar or Xotic.
LOL ..... different strokes for different folks.
So, if you needed mobility, just how many times are you willing to pack up your desktop and haul it around to take your work with you, or set it up for a lunch business meeting in a restaurant, or to do a live demo on stage in a presentation. Yes, you get more bang for your buck with a desktop, but if mobility is needed, then you'll end up getting a laptop sooner or later anyway, and if you need something equivalent to your desktop performance, things can get pretty expensive in a hurry. Keep in mind, while for many people a laptop is impractical for the price, there are also those that a desktop is impractical at any price.
Yes, that is something to keep im mind, if your running a laptop with desktop components, you'll have two have power bricks to supply the needed power. This can be inconvenient at times. So if continuous mobility is what you are looking for, the Area 51 (of MSI GT76 Titan, or similar) may not be the best option. I don't need to move mine around every few hours, or even every few days, so the extra power bricks are no big deal (though initially they did present a challenge for setting up my "laptop desk" so I could easily use it in my recliner while watching TV).
If you do decide on the Area 51, and move around a lot, you'll probably want to get a small power bar to keep in your laptop bag so you always have enough receptacles to plug into. A few years ago when I moved around with my laptop daily, and often multiple times a day, I got an extra power brick to keep in my laptop bag to make moving around easier. If your going to be working with the laptop consistently in two locations and moving between them often, having a power brick in both locations can make life easier as well (assuming you need to be away from your "base" location long enough that you will drain the battery without power).
You're talking abou two different uses. You could get by with a cheap thin and light, even a chromebook if you just want a basic business machine. Then get a reasonable desktop to do rendering.
I know there were some reccomendations to go with an external GPU, so I wanted to toss my 2 cents in here because unfortunately I made the mistake of going this route. I purchased a 2017 Razer Blade Stealth, with a Razer Core V2, and I have an NVidia Titan Xp card in it... and its nothing but trouble. The machine heats up so bad during renders, and even while building up a scene, that I've needed to prop it up and blow a fan across it. The battery bloated out so bad that the case started to bend and the lid wouldn't close right, so I took the bottom off and removed the battery, and now it's back to the right shape but no longer has a battery. The biggest issue, however, is that DAZ constantly just throws up errors and crashes when trying to render heavy scenes in iRay. Nothing close to the 12 GB of VRAM I have in the card, mind you, just scenes between 4 and 8 GB. I think that this is because even though the card can hold more, it takes time to get the data to the card from the machine, and DAZ doesn't like waiting for that or isn't set up to do so. DAZ is constantly crashing with unexpected errors, the laptop can't keep cool (the GPU is ok in the enclosure, but the CPU goes into meltdown mode sometimes), and in the time I've had this Titan Xp I've NEVER been able to get even close to it's potential because I'm so limited by this setup. I'm no genius, and I certainly don't think this machine is a piece of crap (It really has held up well, all things considered), but the whole external GPU thing is not without some fairly hefty limitations.
There are some positives, though... and that is that rendering scenes that fall below 8 Gig and more into the 4 range is frickin FAST, way faster than anything a mobile GPU could pull off. I do like mobility, also, and I travel for work, so I like that I can set up my scenes at a hotel, and then plug in at home and render. To me, this flexibility isn't worth the problems described above, however, and I flat out wasted money on a Titan card because iRay will crash out way before ever filling up the VRAM limit.
You could say that this is my own unique experience, and that maybe you'd have a different one, or know somebody who did, but I'll not ever go this route again. I wish there had been a cautionary tale when I sunk all of this money into it a while back, so consider this one. Take it with a grain of salt, Razer is a fantastic brand, but it's a whole lot to risk if it ends up being a trainwreck.
No, I'm not talking about doing simple little PowerPoint presentations, or working on PowerPoint presentations, Word documents, Excel spreadsheets, or even doing simple photo editing "on the road" that can be done with a cheap laptop or possibly a chrome book (I actually have another inexpensive laptop for that purpose). I'm talking about doing live demos that take desktop power. For example demoing the setup of a 3D scene, a 3D walk through, demonstrating a dense point cloud (100,000,000 to 800,000,000 points) from either photogrammetric data ot Lidar data, demonstrating the ability to create 3D data from client photography on site (i.e. their office), showing the progress on a 3D model from photogrametric data in the processing software (often over 100,000,000 points), live processing of elevation data to create elevation contours. Setting up and rendering static images or simple animations while on the road. Video editing and image rendering for collaborative presentations while on the road. Live demos showing the use of light and shadow for archeological feature identification of massive TIN's created from Lidar data. Live demos showing processes used for filtering different features from Lidar data (buildings, vegetation, etc.). Processing large photo data sets that often require 80-100 Gb of RAM while on the road, at remote sites, or a client location. Or demoing the results from the analysis of Lidar and/or photogrammetric data sets that are hundreds of Gb in size (sometimes multi terabytes) using GIS software where much of the data is stored in a PostgeSql/PostGIS database (to improve performance) on your laptop.
Often a lot of my work has taken me down dirt roads into areas where you wouldn't even want to take a desktop, if you could even set it up on location (and TBH, where I would prefer not to take a laptop). While others might not have such extreme needs, there are many situations where a cheap low end laptop simply will not cut it.
EDIT: I guess I should clarify the reason I have the second laptop (actually a convertible) is to do presentations on the road - I mean literally .... on the road. I guide educational tours 2-4 months a year, and the Coach (tour bus) is my rolling class room. So I have an inexpensive laptop to show videos and do Power Point presentations while rolling down the road(s) to prepare the participants for what they are about to see. Many (most) of the roads are quite rough, and I'm not going to have an expensive laptop literally bouncing down the road
As for me I like/need to work in a comfortable environment, and often it's already hard that way so go figure a unpractical environment. It is essential for my creativity not to be mobbed by rough things around. As for the laptop itself I consider it unpractical for working. That said I do understand that some people may need it to get the job done and is forced with a laptop.
I do keep a nvidia laptop for presentations and some little rendering.
You're talking about a $3k US laptop to do what you need. If you need that for work I assume your job pays for it. To expect you to buy that yourself is ridiculous. If you're self employed then you're making the cash to buy it or you're going out of business but your use case is very not usual, and 99% of laptops cannot handle what you do.
Your battery was likely defective. Even a machine routinely overheating should not have caused that. Further rendering on an external card should not have overheated the laptop at all.
I assume you did turn off CPU rendering, which certainly would have overheated the laptop.
Very true, the work I do pays for a better laptop, and my computer use beyond DAZ is far from normal. However, this was the first laptop I purchased that was over 3K. But, if I weren't using the laptop for work, I would still prefer a laptop. With the desktop (I do own one, and it is roughly equivalent to my old laptop) I feel very limited (confined), and isolated from the family (well now just my wife). I seldom use the desktop, sometimes for rendering longer animations or photogrammetry that will take days to run, but that is it.
Where you prefer the comfort of your desktop setup, I prefer the comfort of sitting in the living room (or family room) where my wife is. I get much less done on the computer if I have to use the desktop (I don't think I've turned it on in over nine months now), and tend to avoid using it. I guess what I'm trying to say is that for some people, a desktop just doesn't work as well as a laptop. If due to the immobility of a desktop, your computer use is (or feels) restricted, then so will your productivity. As in your case, the same may be true for people who prefer to use a desktop (or those who are unwilling to accept the price/performance compromises with a laptop).
I suspect you are right about the battery, but it doesn't change the fact that it wouldn't have been an issue on a desktop. At any rate, it doesn't matter, it is what it is and it is not directly connected to it being a "render machine". I only added it to flush out my claim of how it's been trouble.
As far as CPU heating up, I did turn off CPU rendering. The CPU on the Razer Blade Stealth gets extremely hot under regular circumstances, considering it is an i7 in that tiny little case. So, I don't know what to tell you other than it did get super, super hot (way past the point I was comfortable with). Probably within Razer's defined operating parameters, but still.
The showstopper really is everything locking up and shutting down well before I could actually get any value from my high-end video card.
I'm not looking to invalidate anybodies suggestion, I just felt that I wish I had heard some sort of first-hand review of this kind of a setup before I purchased, but there was one, so I bought on faith. I can't say whether my experience is the standard experience you can expect or not, or if I had a bunch of external, nonrelated factors involved, but I just felt that I should at least offer my experience for consideration.
Tbolt is just a faster USB 3 C. Even used flat out it doesn't get hot. I've used them to drive displays, tbolt doubles as displayport. It ight get a little above ambient if it is supplying DC power as well but even then it should be no worse than a USB C doing the same.
laptops, generally, get hot from failing to dissipate teh heat produced bythe CPU and GPU, and if it has one the HDD. However it is pretty unlikely that a single core being hit during render is enough to get the laptop case hot. I've got a Dell XPS and I use it all the time to run diagnostics on remote machines, and do all sorts of admin tasks, and to run the daily reports on HW uptime and failures (which involves talking to every rack in the datacenter, populating a spreadsheet and then running calcs and creating the reports. It gets warm but I've never thought it was outside spec.
Duckbomb, that sucks that is a nice setup! I would take the laptop back to whoever sold it to you and tell them the cpu cooling is not working! If you just use the GPU externally and Install MSI afterburner and turn the fan on the external GPU to 100% It should not be overheating your laptop. Just turn off cpu rendering in the render tab and just use GPU. I should add that fan profiles in gaming video cards are setup for gaming not rendering. You need to turn up the fan to 100% so you don't cook your nice Titan GPU. Yes, I know it will work fine if you don't do this but it will shorten the lifespan of your expensive card. Of course if you have deep pockets and don't care all power to you.